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sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted March 03, 2015 10:51 AM |
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Galaad said:
Where were you during Sandro revolution? 
Relaxing on some Jadame beach, drinking tears and allowing you to use my portret 
Well, I consider you a polite man, sufficient for moderator job. I was one, so I'm sure you fit this job 
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 03, 2015 10:56 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 12:30, 03 Mar 2015.
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Meh, I would feel like loosing some freedom in my posting there if I were to be one.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 11:31 AM |
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Gryphs said:
kiryu133 said:
@JJ
FTL travel isn't strictly fantasy anymore. we are actually discovering potential ways of utilizing it and it's been theorized about for decades
we're hardly there yet but fantasy it is not.
He did not just say faster than light travel, he said faster than light travel while remaining in the same time frame.
Thanks.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 03, 2015 12:15 PM |
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JollyJoker, I recall reading many posts of yours expressing and developing your worries regarding Magic system in H7. To make me gain some time on the Q&A, would you mind remind me briefly your main concern about it?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 12:18 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 12:18, 03 Mar 2015.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 03, 2015 12:19 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 12:21, 03 Mar 2015.
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I could get that
I need him to summarise his arguments for me.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 12:34 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 12:37, 03 Mar 2015.
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There's really no problem beyond that. 7 schools are a plus to variability, open more options for specialization, hence more decision making, more hero builds to choose from, etc. On the other hand there's always the problem of overlapping spells or variations of the same kind, uselessness of spells, balance issues, etc. But if the implementation of the system is good and gets past those problems, I don't see a valid reason to oppose 7 magic schools. I think that at a concept level the idea is solid.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 12:41 PM |
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I've always a lot of concerns regardxing magic, and HoMM 7 is no exception, the main reason being the fact that 7 schools are difficult to implement in a reasonable, sensible and interesting way. One obvious disadvantage is, that obviously, with 7 schools and spell-manipulating abilities schools can't have that many spells to begin with.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 12:45 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 12:45, 03 Mar 2015.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 12:49 PM |
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Stevie said:
They could, you just can't see it.
Based on what? The 40 spells in vanilla HoMM 5? How many were in 6?
Anyway, you are too complacent, Stevie. For example, one problem with 7 schools is - they don't STACK. The first magic school will give you lot, but the second will give you less already, since the main purpose of these skills is getting and improving ACTIVE abilities (called spells). You can REASONABLY pick only a low number of school - 2 would be my guess -, and having 7 skills of which you can pick generally only 2 is VERY awkward and has some consequences.
Between skillwheels, mage guilds and difference between hero types there is a lot of room for problems.
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Holly38482
Tavern Dweller
guest-Rje384Hi
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posted March 03, 2015 01:27 PM |
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Ubi-Nox said:
Zombi_Wizzard said:
So there will be a demo? That's good news. I like game having a demo.
EDIT: Indeed if I were to praise one thing about H6 it would be, that it came with nice demo. Games with demos are becomeing rare in today's time, and I realy like that you can basicaly test out the game for free before you purchase. Specialy in H6 case, where you could play one map, and give all factions a spin, no strings attached.
Sorry guys there might be a misunderstanding here. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, my bad  I was talking about a demo for the event to demonstrate the game to the journalist and community representatives and unfortunately not for broad distribution.
Will we be able at least to see the video of this demo from event after it'll take place?
Ubi-Nox said:
Stevie said:
So what are you going to do about it tho? Have you brought up the problem at the Ubi meetings?
Additional hands to help on this moderation matter  That's why it take some time, never easy to unlock resources in companies, whatever it's size.
We will have one person who will backup us with the International comments and another for all Russian comments.
Will you pick this persons from users of council or it'll be somebody official?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 01:34 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 13:39, 03 Mar 2015.
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Based on what is conceivably better. Duel of Champions for example did a pretty good job in regards to spells. They just need to look that far for inspiration.
I'm not really convinced by your argument from awkwardness, if an argument to begin with. In my book a more awkward scenario would be picking 2 magic schools from 4 rather than 7, essentially 50% of all spells. There is nothing wrong with more variability, having more options to choose from wouldn't take anything away from the game, but instead it could give a lot. Which brings us to the problem of implementation. You started your reasoning with a false premise, that the schools don't stack. This is not entirely true, it's not necessarily the case if implementation is done right. Apart from the damage spells and stat modifiers which are the same in purpose (but could be very different in form and aftereffects, making them all viable in certain situations), magic schools could come with a lot of spells affecting mechanics of creatures, manipulating behavior, change terrain features, summon objects with effects, hidden area spells, countdown spells, global battlefield effects, etc. In these I personally see a lot of potential.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 01:59 PM |
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I wonder whether we talk about the same game here.
Anyway, instead of starting another useless hypothetical debate - let's just wait how it turns out.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted March 03, 2015 02:03 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
For example, one problem with 7 schools is - they don't STACK. The first magic school will give you lot, but the second will give you less already, since the main purpose of these skills is getting and improving ACTIVE abilities (called spells). You can REASONABLY pick only a low number of school - 2 would be my guess -, and having 7 skills of which you can pick generally only 2 is VERY awkward and has some consequences.
Are you sure that's necessarily a bad thing... It can result in tactical labor division between heroes, strategical decision making and actual specialists, opposed to the system in H3 where even warriors without basic wisdom got three schools of expert magic.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 02:11 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
I wonder whether we talk about the same game here.
Anyway, instead of starting another useless hypothetical debate - let's just wait how it turns out.
My point is that the spell department has a lot of unused potential which would be very relevant in the context of 7 magic schools. Maybe it's too late for Heroes 7 to go that way but I think for future Heroes games the devs should explore alternative forms and functions of spells.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 03:05 PM |
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artu said:
JollyJoker said:
For example, one problem with 7 schools is - they don't STACK. The first magic school will give you lot, but the second will give you less already, since the main purpose of these skills is getting and improving ACTIVE abilities (called spells). You can REASONABLY pick only a low number of school - 2 would be my guess -, and having 7 skills of which you can pick generally only 2 is VERY awkward and has some consequences.
Are you sure that's necessarily a bad thing... It can result in tactical labor division between heroes, strategical decision making and actual specialists, opposed to the system in H3 where even warriors without basic wisdom got three schools of expert magic.
I didn't say it was a bad thing, I said, it's a problem, because there is a difference between such a school and a "regular" school. You can, for example effortlessly stack Attack, Defense, Leadership and Logistics. You then have the Faction skill; and you need a skill to make use of your Knowledge and Power values - so Light Magic. Each skills adds to the power of your army, all in various ways.
Now, if you pick Light, Earth, Fire and Prime Magic (plus Faction skill, plus, say Logistics, you won't actually be better or even equally well off than the first hero. BOTH can cast just one spell each round - it's just that the second one will have a broader selection.
So unless the magic school skills do a lot more than just allow you to learn spells, and unless they will include passive abilities as well - you can't stack them profitably. Now, if you can't stack them profitably, EITHER skill-wise there can't be a big difference between might and magic heroes OR there have to be some up to this point undisclosed magic skills that would somehow boost spells (stuff like Sorcery and so on) and would make sense to pick for magic heroes. If there were such skills, none of the Haven heroes would excel in any of them, whatever that's supposed to mean, so I tend to lean to the EITHER option.
Which would mean, that things would be more or less EXACTLY the way they were in HoMM 3 - only with a bigger school selection, but with less to actually pick.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted March 03, 2015 03:31 PM |
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LMAO Ubi, Sandro uses the void, resurrects an undead dragon and wants to destroy the dragon gods 6 freakin' months before the announcement of the Danse Macabre DLC. (please excuse the poor English I had back then) I know Sandro was mentioned in H5, but he had nothing to do with void back then, nor it was a playable hero, the only palpable thing was an artifact with his name.
Quote:
posted October 17, 2011 07:02 PM
Edited by lizardwarrior at 21:30, 20 Feb 2012.
http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/heroes-6/en-gb/news/details.aspx?c=tcm:21-61198&ct=tcm:6-231-32 said:
23-08-2012
Sandro is back!
Today we are glad to inform you that the second Adventure Pack "Danse Macabre" for the universally acclaimed Might & Magic Heroes 6 as well as a Gold Edition, including the game and the two Adventure Packs, will be made available for PC on September 27, 2012.
Marzhin, since it was
Quote:
Developed by Limbic Entertainment GmbH in Germany, Might & Magic
Could you tell us more about the development of this dlc I want to know if I should become a fortune-teller 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted March 03, 2015 04:53 PM |
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Universally acclaimed, Heroes 6?
That was a thing? 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted March 03, 2015 05:01 PM |
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Avirosb said:
Universally acclaimed, Heroes 6?
That was a thing?
Only us conservatives fail to see how great Heroes 6 truly was! It explains its long life, incredible amount of custom maps & scenarios, and incontestable support it received!
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 03, 2015 05:07 PM |
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@JJ,
I get what you're trying to say. I personally like tho think that the compensating factor for spells, as an advantage compared to the stacking of might/neutral skills like Attack, Defense, etc., is in the much larger pool of spells a magic hero with 4 schools would have as opposed to a hero with just 1 school.
The main problem I have in this regards with Heroes 7 is that it didn't implement a dynamic initiative system as seen with Heroes 5. Having this turn by turn where the hero can cast a spell only once without affecting his cast intervals (Sorcery) is really putting magic at an overall disadvantage. Especially now with 7 magic schools where you would have to find ways to make casting more frequent to make more use of your spell pool if you get 3+ magic schools.
But I think even within this system solutions could be found should these problems ever appear. We could think, as you said, along the lines of compensation, with passive buffs from the skills/perks, or Might should be nerfed so it's not OP vs Magic.
Or people should be smart and specialize rather than generalize their magic field.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
