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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted April 27, 2015 10:34 PM |
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articun said:
Why Heroes IV specifically?
To play Necroferno of course. 
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted April 27, 2015 10:36 PM |
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Only one insulting the audience is Erwan, and he has right to do, when he knows people will buy his games no matter what he'll do with them.
If the game is bad - IT DOES NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY. Stevie said the correct thing. People who buy the game out of pitty are only fans of previous titles, and in huge minority. Their purchase does not impact the success of future games.
Not buying game is not "boycoting" or something that anyone should feel bad about. I don't buy a lot of games I dislike. I never will buy a FIFA game. Am I boycoting FIFA now? 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted April 27, 2015 10:39 PM |
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Sligneris said:
Bravo, you guys just probably reduced the enthusiasm put into the creation of Heroes 8 and negatively affected its quality. Good job.
I crave not creation but destruction. Bring on the dark messiah.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 27, 2015 11:16 PM |
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Flaming aside which is plain inappropriate, I don't see why the fans should not complain about something that disturbs or disappoints them. For me this is the worst decision of H7 and apparently this is true for a lot of people.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 27, 2015 11:21 PM |
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What is the worst decision? I think I missed some previous post apparently.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 27, 2015 11:23 PM |
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The skill system design. I had much higher expectations than that.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted April 27, 2015 11:28 PM |
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Guys, I think I have a Stockholm syndrome. Why? No matter how many bad news we get about the skillwheel (the issue that bothers me), I still want to play the game and after a few angry thoughts I come back to being optimistic about the game. I truly am an improper optimist.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 27, 2015 11:29 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 23:30, 27 Apr 2015.
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Elvin said:
The skill system design. I had much higher expectations than that.
Is that so? Because some people think about it that it's the most brilliant idea the M&M team ever had. Not to mention the M&M team itself which made it painfully clear tonight. Now what do you say about that? Are you granting them that this is a question of opinion and preference like they implied, or is it something more tangible than that?
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 27, 2015 11:34 PM |
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted April 27, 2015 11:41 PM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 23:55, 27 Apr 2015.
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Pawek_13 said:
Guys, I think I have a Stockholm syndrome. Why? No matter how many bad news we get about the skillwheel (the issue that bothers me), I still want to play the game and after a few angry thoughts I come back to being optimistic about the game. I truly am an improper optimist.
I think you just wish the franchise to go on. Also, you mustn't also be one which wants to hate the game. These two things coupled together can be moving you.
***
Just went to the suffering altar, I mean, to the council to check on the last news. What I read there goes, in my mind, like this: "Councilors threw a rock into the pond of muck and the muck is now splashing back on their faces".
Right now, I'm rather ok with my decision of denying my money for such thing.
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ninjata12
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 12:49 AM |
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Guys, come on. In H3 skills were random, but still there was some algorithm. For example you get Earth Magic with Rampart heroes and not Fire Magic. Stronghold heroes didn't have access to higher levels of magic. It was random, but still directed in some way. If you think, this is similar in some way in H7 if you choose the random option.
I personally like the system. If some good balancing is done, the game has huge potential.
And stop complaining about the townscreens, you will stop looking at them after the first couple of times you play the game. Balance and no bugs - this is what will make the game great! And this is what we will not know until game release. So keep calm
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cori14
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 01:20 AM |
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Hmpf. I don't even know what to say... I'm feeling very indifferent about it. I hoped for an explanation that will change my mind about the skillwheel but deep in my heart I knew it wouldn't happen.
...
I fear that it will become another H6 incident, and that I will never play with it just like with H6. I pre ordered it but gave up on it after release because of bugs, performance issues and gameplay/map design. I only installed it now a few weeks ago (just because of Heroes7) to play through the whole game: original, DLCs and SoD to know something about Ashan lore. Angels being bad guys, I liked that(Even if storytelling was really bad in original campaigns) and Sandro's storyline kicked ass, I have to give them that. But beside these, I don't like anything about the game.
And if Heroes7 will fail in regards to gameplay then I don't even mind if the franchise dies for some time... Maybe after several years somebody will pick it up and make it a good game. I don't want the franchise to be like Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed... I liked, even LOVED the older games of them but I couldn't care less for them nowadays, and I don't want that with Heroes.
HoMM is my all time favourite series beside Diablo and I'm scared that it will go down like the other franchises. (I'm not talking about financial problems, but gameplay problems)
But on the other hand I would like to keep my hopes up and be pleasantly surprised by Heroes7. Limbic seems like good guys to me. MMX was great, and even what they did with Heroes6 was good by H6 standards, H7 Faction line ups look really nice (spiderpolis aside)... and Skillwheel looks far better than H6, even if I don't like how it works. If they bring us good map design and a lot of custom maps(even RMG) then It could very well be a decent heroes game. (Like heroes 4. Even if H4 isn't my fav I definitely had played much more with it than I'm going to with H6)
Sorry for my long rambling, but I had to get it off my chest.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:05 AM |
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I feel sad. They are playing the most dangerous card, and they will most likely go down for good if they fail again. As a designer i probably know how they feel right now: they strongly believe in their way, but not getting appreciate for far too long=its utterly depressing. I really dont like the choice they made with town screens, not-improving skill system etc etc, but since they are not going to turn back from their decision, there is no point in me flaming them anymore... on the contrary i think i need to support them so they may keep their morale high to finish the job they started... or else they will make it even worse. im gonna pre-order 2 copies tomorrow. sorry if i sound like a lier with this post, but thats was the secret plan B for me all along. i tried my best, joined community for plan A, but it didint worked. i just cant stand watching another h6-kind-of-release. black hole gone bankrupt, game didnt get any support after release.. it was a complete disaster.
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Sempai
Known Hero
Ubi is love
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posted April 28, 2015 02:22 AM |
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Edited by Sempai at 02:30, 28 Apr 2015.
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Whatever, Cleg. Good luck with this game. Hope you'll enjoy it.
As for me, I'm not gonna buy it. it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees  Same with heroes. I'd rather see the series being stopped than turning it to soulless trash like AC and PoP franchises. So my plan B is try the game from piratebay version after release in case of no demo/beta and skip it in case of crap. Money won't help. Ubi's not an indie company like Telltale was once which needed funding. And h6 was saled good btw so we weren't the reason of BH's bankrupcy.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:31 AM |
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Elvin said:
...
Must say Elvin, I loooooove your signature.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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The_Green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:41 AM |
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Haven't been able to take a chance and talk about the worst article to date. So much bull snow smeared all over it, I can hardly make out the words.
Sligneris said:
I think this fanbase is killing the franchise.
Both Ubi and Limbic seemed to be passionate about creating new Heroes games, now they're tired by being forced to put up with the unending stream of complaints, mockeries and hate campaigns.
Do we not have a right to be pissed off? What did I hear Erwan lie when the camera gets put on him?
"We are taking the best things from all heroes games and putting them in one"
"We are going back to the roots"
Dealing with the annoying Ashan changes just for the sake of change should be enough. Changes like 7 magic schools, reducing the number of creature tiers to 3, changing the battlefield to squares, renaming all the stats, and changing the resources.
Choosing not to develop a random skill system after advertising "back to the roots" was what drew the line. The skill system has such a huge impact on this game and they chose to then create a new skill system instead of just improving the h5 one. And they're new system is inspired by the most hated one! So much for "back to the roots".
And they want us to trust them lol. We can hardly trust their never ending battle to make a proper line up haha. It's why they needed us to vote on 1/3 of the games armies. But we just have to trust them that their new skill system won't suck as much as there last game.
Sorry but I do not think they deserve any pity.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted April 28, 2015 02:51 AM |
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I simply took a nap, and when I returned... WHAM!
Woohooho, this article is gonna generate some hate. Good job at being diplomatic devs  You tried.
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Let's play poker game, lich-style!
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 02:52 AM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 02:56, 28 Apr 2015.
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Sempai said:
Whatever, Cleg. Good luck with this game. Hope you'll enjoy it.
As for me, I'm not gonna buy it. it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees Same with heroes. I'd rather see the series being stopped than turning it to soulless trash like AC and PoP franchises. So my plan B is try the game from piratebay version after release in case of no demo/beta and skip it in case of crap. Money won't help. Ubi's not an indie company like Telltale was once which needed funding. And h6 was saled good btw so we weren't the reason of BH's bankrupcy.
the saddest part is, i still agree with you about games turning really bad and not-heroes, but i hope to be suprised, although i dont give much possibility for it.
on the money, how much h7 gonna sell will effect the future of series. not because "no money" left, but because ubisoft is such a snowing evil greedy company. i even bet they have much more money then they invest, but they simply dont spare much for heroes because they dont like pc gaming dont see much future for heroes. most likely, its a small game project for them, and if it wont make enough profit they will just get rid of it... but keeping the franchise rights for themselves... snowing ubisoft.
h6 sells were probably good just because h5's success and hype after it. they are about to drain all their remaining credits.
maybe.. maybe they got better after h6  no? maybeeee?
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gourley4p
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 03:17 AM |
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All this discussion reminds me of the way MMO gamers opined about the pinnacle of MMO gaming that was the original EverQuest. In their nostalgia for the feeling they got from playing one of the first games of its kind in a genre, they forgot the really crappy parts of playing EQ--camping the same mobs for hours on end throughout a week to gain a level, corpse runs, losing gear, etc. They'd say of new MMOs, "This death mechanic is cheap. XP loss means nothing without losing a level and having to /shout for hours in a town for a group that could help you go retrieve your gear before your corpse decays." They truly thought that was the fun part of the game, and not the sense of wonder with experiencing something groundbreaking.
Whatever your first HOMM/MMH game was, you're always going to think back on that one with a kinder eye. You're prone to thinking that any attempt to streamline the systems is a cheap shortcut "to appeal to lazy teens." It goes on and on.
Now, please don't mistake what I am saying. It is not wrong for fans to have an opinion about what they think a game should be and to express it in a civil manner, but the level of vitriol here confounds me. I get that people are disappointed; I'm stunned that they feel they must rage and shake the bars of a cell they put themselves into. I wish it were socially acceptable for a person to say he likes the game--as announced--without being flamed and accused of being a crappy gamer/lazy teenager/boot licker/etc. Is there no possible universe in which a person could genuinely like this game?
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2015 04:41 AM |
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Pfft.
Pffff hahahhHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.
Wow, you guys, just... wow.
Okay, so, for at least the past 5 pages now, and all up and down the SC blog comments, I keep seeing people saying this article of theirs offended them and that it's terrible, and... holy crap, this is just too good. It's actually hilarious to me.
How did any of that article offend you? I mean, half the stuff on that article is almost something I myself have said. This is literally all stuff we've heard before. And only now you feel offended? Perhaps I am an "apologist" that people are talking about. But, seriously, the amount of unbridled rage that an article nearly filled to the brim with information you already know is very amusing to read. If the rage was towards the information being uninformative, I'd understand, but this is just amazing.
I'd like to just go through the article and find this supposedly apparent offensiveness. I'd really, really like to have some one point out the rudeness and cockiness, or the parts that cause infuriation. I'll attempt to find them, but with multiple read-overs already, I have to say, I really haven't found much.
The intro: They said they weren't going to change it. People whine at them to change it. They aren't. They then take in questions, and will answer them. Super cocky already, guys, I can feel it.
The Concept: Wow, allow long term planning, as opposed to very short term "adaptations" via the randomness? Sounds like what I've been saying. Oh, the primary system excludes randomness, so long term planning is easier. This is... almost exactly what I said. They aren't removing the random spells: they put those back in! And luck, morale, random stacks, resources... all still random. Jut the primary skill system. Which makes sense to me. They put the stuff on a single screen, which is honestly something that should have been done for H3 and H5, because I still can't remember the full list of skills for H3 without looking them up, and H5 I pretty much have to use an outside source to help plan my hero (I guess people modded this in? I rarely mod, but hey, whatever helps, right?) I of course side with them on this system, so I guess I am an apologist, aren't I?
1. Okay, this part does confuse me a bit, I have to agree. What I can guess is that "freedom" means non-random, but yes, H3/5 would have more actual "choice" in skills since there weren't any specific lockouts, baring the racial in H5 and a few oddballs in H3. What I can see, especially with the "No spell-casting barbarians" is that they changed the meaning of barbarian: back in H1 and 2, barbarians were a single class, so to not exclude them completely, they have spell casting ability. H3 made Barbarians a might class, so they have worse aptitude for magic. H4... H5 made Barbarians a single class again, but they literally CAN'T CAST SPELLS. At least without the aid of a magic wand, at least. And now with H7, there are 3 different magic classes with a barbarian as one might class. Who's to say the Warmonger and Chieftain could caste spells? Oh, wait, the Chieftain can already have Air and Earth magic. Does the Barbarian need to? I know not the Haven's heroes skills in depth, I'd find it funny if one of them did allow for Dark magic.
2. Oh, wait, they didn't remove the randomness completely! They instead have... a system not entirely unlike H5! Of course, it's a 10 skill limit out of 24-30 instead of the 12 out of 20-ish of H5, but still.
3. Wow, sounds like... H5 to me. Except for the "normal" prerequisites, I suppose. Which is the kind of system I want. Huh. They still need to upgrade up and up if you want the better and better abilities.
4. I'm going to stick with their terminology: Grandmaster abilities. There's 3 per class. If a person really wants all three, they'll get to (even with the most liberal application of having points in those skills at level 1) level 21 in order to get all three. Ah, yes, the most powerful of heroes, ignores 7 out of 10 skills available to him. If he tries to go for the other skills after getting the grandmasters, he can get one more full skill (+6) and one half skill(+3). Even according to their random mode in #2, they expect people to take 5 skills, but that's still out of 10 for a hero. Even among the heroes who do go for all 3 grandmasters, that allows for 21 different combinations of the other 2 skills. One could be full and the other half, or both at a ~2/3 status. The additions of those don't exclude the minor skills as much, because even spending 4 points in two minor skills each takes up 8 points, with 21 levels already taken up... And that's all within a single hero. Then there's the other 35 hero archetypes in the game.
5. So Knights can't have dark magic? Big whoop. I mean, I suppose having a knight with dark magic is a novel idea. But that doesn't mean Knights can only get Light and that's that. They likely have other schools. So does the other 5 classes that exist within Haven. But, I guess, since back in H5 they had 2% of getting Destructive or Summoning, that meant that Knights could nearly never get them. And yet, now, one magic hero can get the grandmaster in Fire, an old Destructive aspect. Huh. Perhaps... reasons change?
6. Have we not already heard this information time and time again?
7. Oh, cool, a starting skill! Like H5. Though I guess it is lessened, because they only get one free point instead of H5's 3, one of which is always the basic racial. Probably due to lessened level cap, yeah. Or the 2 from H3. The saddening thing is that yes, it states specialties may give you an extra rank somewhere, but, hey, we wanted different specialties, right? I guess it's just not the ones you wanted.
8. Now, here's one thing I can see as a bit rude, saying "blindly choose". Which, yes, sounds like no thought goes into the choice, even though some should in the weighing of 4 options. However, this is the first time I personally have found anything that wasn't cordial or level-headed. But with the second paragraph of that section, they've returned. They acknowledge the differences, and yet, they still stand by their decision.
9. They even acknowledge the similarities with H6, as few as they are. Non-random, school variety. That's... kinda it. Yes, the preface it with "They are definitely not the same." I guess this may sound cocky, but... they really aren't. There's no spells in the system. There are actual skills. There are abilities in those skills. Those three trait alone make it more like H5, with only 2 traits for H6, at least. Perhaps there's more similarities between H7 and those two other systems, but the point is, it really can't be the "same" if there are differences. Saying otherwise is being facetious.
10. They acknowledge differences. They have a stance. They stick to it.
11. Wow, they are changing some names.
All in all, I found maybe 1 "rude" comment, and 1 confusing one. Hardly what I'd call a infuriating, offensive article. Unless you mean that to be that they are sticking to their stance on things, which is different from your stance. Which, if that's the way you define infuriating, then sorry, you are acting like a child in an argument. "What, you won't give me what I want? Fine then, I'll scream!" "What, you still don't give me what I want? Then you are being rude!"
Though to be fair, intonation and inflection, and thus attitude, are rather hard to read from lines of text. Perhaps I am reading it in a "acknowledging" tone rather than a "cocky" and "snide" or the "snow you" tone that the rest of you see.
Among these, I see, is the "witch hut" arguments. I mean, sure, they could allow you to decline a witch hut skill offered. Or the scholars (I think that's what they were), too. But instead, yes, they removed them. They also removed the Memory Mentor, which was a map location that solved the exact problem of... a badly skilled hero, when things didn't go your way. Which could have included the witch huts or the randomness biting you in the butt when it gave you a choice you'd didn't want. They saw design flaws, and removed the flaws. But these just weren't the flaws you wanted removed, or in a way you wanted?
Maybe I'm just happy they made a system that I like, which just simply isn't the one you like. I guess I'm outnumbered though on this forum, barring a few others that seem fine with the article, or maybe even the system itself. But jeez, the way you all reacted to the way they reacted to the SC members all insulting them with the spider memes, flooding the system, yelling at them that what they are doing is the worst ever... At some points, some criticism was made, and they gave their stance to the criticism. Somehow, this means they are bullies and cocky, somehow. I saw very few bits where they weren't professional in this, unless I am just grossly misreading it, somehow.
Does this mean I find this system to be the best ever ever, nothing before it could ever reach it, nothing after it will ever be equal? No, of course not. But I do still like it. Nor do I uphold H5 as a sacred cow. It's got flaws. This system has flaws. But to me, this system has less flaws. But that's still a personal opinion.
Sorry, I really needed the laugh all this generated. I mean, seriously, this forum and the rage generated is more entertaining than H3 and 5 combined at this point.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
