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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 11:26 AM |
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The final version is really arabic and really wizardic if i can say so  i think with a salt of waltz theme! And one of the composer sing in it! Who? That will be revealed in an interview may be! 
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hahakocka
Known Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 11:28 AM |
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I think it's a mixture of Heroes 3-5 Tower and Academy theme with new melodie elements!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2014 11:52 AM |
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Sandro400 said:
You totally forgot that these Shadow Council texts are written from Spymaster's point of view. In the first paragraph he told us that this is just his interpretation. He wanted to tell us about Angel - he told. He may not even know who this Angel is, don't you think?
If he does not know who this Angel is, who sits on the same council as he does, then this Spymaster isn't worth his pay. Spymaster are hired for their keen insight in such things. A spymaster who is constantly wrong and misguessing things, is a bad one and often not spymaster for long.
Sandro400 said:
What matters is "hints at the possibility". Twice in one statement he told that a) Angel isn't from the Church for sure b) the Angel may not represent Church's opinion (or even half of it) even being part of it.
No, it is exactly the other way around.
If the Angel hints at the possibility that the Church does not fully support Seamus, it tells us two things.
1. Publically the Church does back Seamus.
2. The Angel is part of the Church.
For if the Angel isn't part of the Church, her presence cannot suggest something about the Church. She may not represent the majority of the Church, she may not represent the public face of the Church, she may not represent the true intentions of the Church. But she is part of the Church.
If you have a Catholic Bisshop at a meeting, that may hint at things the Vatican is planning, because the Bisshop is part of the Catholic Church. That very same Bisshop, cannot hint at intentions of Sunni Muslims. Because a Bisshop, by being a member of the Catholic Church, is by deffinition not a Muslim. It also goes the other way around, By having a Muslim at a meeting, the very fact cannot hint at intentions of the Vatican, for this Muslim is not part of that Organisation.
For all intents and purposes, The Angel must be Part of the Church, for her being there hinting of something. Murazel, by being an Exile, is not part of the Church. Her presence, by not being part of the Church, cannot hint at intentions of the Church.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted September 12, 2014 11:55 AM |
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War-overlord said:
Murazel, by being an Exile, is not part of the Church. Her presence, by not being part of the Church, cannot hint at intentions of the Church.
You forgot that Sandalphon bring her back, so her exile was ended 10 years ago. What happened next, we will see.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2014 12:01 PM |
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Avonu said:
You forgot that Sandalphon bring her back, so her exile was ended 10 years ago. What happened next, we will see.
True, Sandalphon brought her back from exile. She was chosen for the very reason that she was not part of the Church. Because many distrusted the Angels and the Church, for the events of HeroesVI and their role in the war, Sandalphon asks Murazel. The one Angel he could trust to put the fate of Humanity first and not let herself be corrupted by Church Politics.
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Marzhin
Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
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posted September 12, 2014 12:06 PM |
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War-overlord said:
If he does not know who this Angel is, who sits on the same council as he does, then this Spymaster isn't worth his pay. Spymaster are hired for their keen insight in such things. A spymaster who is constantly wrong and misguessing things, is a bad one and often not spymaster for long.
That's assuming of course the Spy Master always tells everything he knows to the other Shadow Councillors 
He strikes me as the kind of guy to hide a few facts and keep a few secrets if it serves his purpose. As my favourite red dragon once said, "Never play an ace when a two will do."
Also keep in mind that "Ivan's Council" is not the same thing as the "Shadow Council". The Shadow Council is that little thing the Spy Master is running on the side (a.k.a. the MMH7 dev blog). Ivan's Council is only Ivan and his close advisors.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2014 12:08 PM |
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Marzhin said:
Also keep in mind that "Ivan's Council" is not the same thing as the "Shadow Council". The Shadow Council is that little thing the Spy Master is running on the side (a.k.a. the MMH7 dev blog). Ivan's Council is only Ivan and his close advisors.
The Spymaster sits on both Councils though. So it is virtually Impossible for him not to know who this Angel is.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted September 12, 2014 12:10 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 12:12, 12 Sep 2014.
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Marzhin said:
That's assuming of course the Spy Master always tells everything he knows to the other Shadow Councillors
Yes, indeed. Spymaster job is basically to live amoung lies. Never fully trust a spy.
War-overlord said:
The Spymaster sits on both Councils though. So it is virtually Impossible for him not to know who this Angel is.
But does he told us everything which he knows or he told us "only true"?
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 12, 2014 12:14 PM |
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hahakocka said:
The final version is really arabic and really wizardic if i can say so i think with a salt of waltz theme! And one of the composer sing in it! Who? That will be revealed in an interview may be!
Singing composer you mean Rob King than 
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2014 12:21 PM |
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Avonu said:
War-overlord said:
The Spymaster sits on both Councils though. So it is virtually Impossible for him not to know who this Angel is.
But does he told us everything which he knows or he told us "only true"?
What?
I know out discussion can get a little heated, but don't let that stop you from making sensible sentences.
I am saying that the idea that the Spymaster doesn't know who this Angels is is ludicrous.
The Spymaster lying to the Shadow Council or omitting information is possible.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted September 12, 2014 12:22 PM |
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e3772014 said:
Guys, the academy theme is out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpmdVCrd298
As it has been said, it's true that this version lacks a bit of more arabic touch, but I still love it, feels very Wizard. Can't wait for final version!
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted September 12, 2014 12:24 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Avonu said:
War-overlord said:
The Spymaster sits on both Councils though. So it is virtually Impossible for him not to know who this Angel is.
But does he told us everything which he knows or he told us "only true"?
What?
I know out discussion can get a little heated, but don't let that stop you from making sensible sentences.
I am saying that the idea that the Spymaster doesn't know who this Angels is is ludicrous.
The Spymaster lying to the Shadow Council or omitting information is possible.
Just watch video from my link and you should understand, what I mean by "only true" sentence.
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2014 12:34 PM |
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Avonu said:
Just watch video from my link and you should understand, what I mean by "only true" sentence.
That still did not make that sentence correct.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted September 12, 2014 01:05 PM |
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War-overlord said:
If he does not know who this Angel is, who sits on the same council as he does, then this Spymaster isn't worth his pay. Spymaster are hired for their keen insight in such things. A spymaster who is constantly wrong and misguessing things, is a bad one and often not spymaster for long.
No, it is exactly the other way around.
If the Angel hints at the possibility that the Church does not fully support Seamus, it tells us two things.
1. Publically the Church does back Seamus.
2. The Angel is part of the Church.
For if the Angel isn't part of the Church, her presence cannot suggest something about the Church. She may not represent the majority of the Church, she may not represent the public face of the Church, she may not represent the true intentions of the Church. But she is part of the Church.
If you have a Catholic Bisshop at a meeting, that may hint at things the Vatican is planning, because the Bisshop is part of the Catholic Church. That very same Bisshop, cannot hint at intentions of Sunni Muslims. Because a Bisshop, by being a member of the Catholic Church, is by deffinition not a Muslim. It also goes the other way around, By having a Muslim at a meeting, the very fact cannot hint at intentions of the Vatican, for this Muslim is not part of that Organisation.
For all intents and purposes, The Angel must be Part of the Church, for her being there hinting of something. Murazel, by being an Exile, is not part of the Church. Her presence, by not being part of the Church, cannot hint at intentions of the Church.
No, he's worth it. Imagine that he just got the info and shared it immediately. He knows there'll be an Angel, but he doesn't know who it is yet. Besides, he may not want to tell us her name, easy.
Eh, no. If it hints (from SM point of view), it's not 100% truth. That is, em, the meaning of the word "hint".
An example. SM just learned that there will be an Angel. He tells us this info and knowing how few renegades Angels had, it's safe to assume that she is from the Church. But it's not necessarily 100% truth, as there are Belketh, Orna, Murazel.
The same thing with Orna - you see her at the council, you instantly think that she represents Church. Get into the details - and you'll learn that she doesn't fully support her fellow Angels.
Another example - imagine Kiril at Ivan's Council. The first thing you think of - "Hey, demons are involved too"? Same thing was in Heroes Online with Sandro's Demons.
I also must said that Murazel WAS an Exile.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2014 01:23 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
No, he's worth it. Imagine that he just got the info and shared it immediately. He knows there'll be an Angel, but he doesn't know who it is yet.
Then he isn't worth it. It is his job to know who that Angel is. If he tells us before he knows, he's a fool.
But I will admit, as I did a few posts back, that the Spymaster withholding information from the Shadow Council, or even misleading the Shadow Council is a possiblity.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted September 12, 2014 01:32 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Another example - imagine Kiril at Ivan's Council. The first thing you think of - "Hey, demons are involved too"? Same thing was in Heroes Online with Sandro's Demons.
True, it would be pretty silly having a demon in Ivan's Council (if Inferno voted as 6th faction). Nonetheless, I would prefer Inferno as a faction in the game.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 01:56 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 14:02, 12 Sep 2014.
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War-overlord said:
But I will admit, as I did a few posts back, that the Spymaster withholding information from the Shadow Council, or even misleading the Shadow Council is a possibility.
I think you guys are reading too much into it. The whole "Spymaster" thing is just on the site, not in the game. Why would there be such a shady character part of Ivan's council of war? I wouldn't risk having someone like him in my council. What's he there for? Providing information? To who? To us! Not to the council members. They have no need of information coming from some calling himself Spymaster. That's.. beyond ridiculous, not to say dangerous too. When you leave your intel on the hands of a person like that, you're basically digging your own grave. Let's say Ivan knows him and trusts him, why would the others do the same? If each of them doesn't know him personally, there's not a single reason in this world to trust him. But not knowing someone coming at such an important table is an immediate red flag. I would quit the council before it even begins. But now, let say that they all know him. Wow, great spymaster. Why does he even bother to hide his face?
So, just drop it, it's just an invented character for our sake. I highly doubt he'll ever be in the actual game.
Oh, and spies don't publicly show themselves. They operate from the shadows. Showing himself to like, 6 highly important people is definitely a no-no. You just compromised the thing you must safeguard the most, your identity. You don't make your existence public like that. So this guy there is just a bad "spymaster". All the more reason not to trust him. He's a farce. A necessary one, because of Shadow Council and stuff..
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2014 02:07 PM |
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Stevie said:
I think you guys are reading too much into it. The whole "Spymaster" thing is just on the site, not in the game. Why would there be such a shady character part of Ivan's council of war? I wouldn't risk having someone like him in my council. What's he there for? Providing information? To who? To us! Not to the council members. They have no need of information coming from some calling himself Spymaster. That's.. beyond ridiculous, not to say dangerous too. When you leave your intel on the hands of a person like that, you're basically digging your own grave. Let's say Ivan knows him and trusts him, why would the others do the same? If each of them doesn't know him personally, there's not a single reason in this world to trust him. But not knowing someone coming at such an important table is an immediate red flag. I would quit the council before it even begins. But now, let say that they all know him. Wow, great spymaster. Why does he even bother to hide his face?
So, just drop it, it's just an invented character for our sake. I highly doubt he'll ever be in the actual game.
Oh, and spies don't publicly show themselves. They operate from the shadows. Showing himself to like, 6 highly important people is definitely a no-no. You just compromised the thing you must safeguard the most, your identity. You don't make your existence public like that. So this guy there is just a bad "spymaster". All the more reason not to trust him. He's a farce. A necessary one, because of Shadow Council and stuff..
Have ever seen Game of Thrones? There is factually little difference between the Spy Master and Varys.
The other members do not need to trust him, they are there for Ivan.
Also, as Marzhin pointed out a few posts back, We are the Shadow Council. Ivan's Warcouncil is the 8 people who are basically serving as the Narrators of the Campaign.
P.S.
Never go into politics Stevie.
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Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
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posted September 12, 2014 02:21 PM |
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War-overlord said:
But I will admit, as I did a few posts back, that the Spymaster withholding information from the Shadow Council, or even misleading the Shadow Council is a possiblity.
I think we can agree on that^^
Also, can anyone remind me, where it was said that SM is part of Ivan's Council?
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2014 02:29 PM |
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Sandro400 said:
Also, can anyone remind me, where it was said that SM is part of Ivan's Council?
The site is down ATM, so I cannot look it up. But he appears to be sitting in on the meeting in the artwork, amongst other things. The hooded figure sitting with his back towards the viewer. And since there are 2 chairs empty, as I remember, it's very much not implied that this figure is one of the yet to be chosen councilors.
Edit: Just the artwork, realy.
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