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Layn
Shaper of Lore
Technical Artist, Limbic Ent.
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posted July 23, 2015 05:36 PM |
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Elvin said:
Welcome Layn  My main gripes are the overused glows and shiny effects in upgraded units(all the more noticeable in the treant upgrade) and.. the emerald dragon's head! I actually prefer the basic version over the upgrade, the latter does not really look powerful and/or majestic. It's more like a grandma brontosaurus ..
I totally get what you mean. We HAVE talked about it (or rather on how to make the upgraded look more powerful than the base unit), but it's unlikely anything will change. It's just out of scope.
But hey, grandma's can be scary! Let's go with that.
Oh we have looked at all the redesigns, btw. but mixing and reusing parts of creatures as well as tweaking them is not so simple. I would have totally done a hidden chimera faction if it was possible  .
fuChris said:
Do you know if we'll get to see large unpassable forests and massive mountain ridges on the adventure map other than the small hills and single hand placed trees.
i actually don't think we have any handplaced trees. We've got a foliage brush, so we can avoid that. I have only seen a fraction of the maps we have, so i don't know all the details. Different level designers also have different sensibilities about how to place things. There's big mountains for sure in some maps though.
Now what i can guarantee you is that all the debug maps that we use in-house to test content creation stuff are suitably simple and/or messed up! My personal favorite is the one that has every single adventure map building on it and nothing else.
ThatRedSarah said:
Your job sounds so awesome!
I do love it! I'd imagine even without the job i'd still be making games. I kinda wish i could go back in time and blow younger H3 playing me's mind that one day i'd be working on H7. That said will be nice to relax a bit after the release. Then again i'll probably be super giddy spending every single minute reading everything that will ever be written about the game (good or bad)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 23, 2015 05:42 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 18:09, 23 Jul 2015.
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Layn said:
We HAVE talked about it (or rather on how to make the upgraded look more powerful than the base unit), but it's unlikely anything will change. It's just out of scope.
But hey, grandma's can be scary! Let's go with that.
Oh we have looked at all the redesigns, btw. but mixing and reusing parts of creatures as well as tweaking them is not so simple.
Really? How can it be so out of scope? I bet there will be dozens of mods for that particular creature soon after the game is released.
Maybe even before that.
http://i10.pixs.ru/storage/5/9/1/Ochenizumr_9766451_17979591.jpg
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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alexine
Known Hero
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posted July 23, 2015 05:51 PM |
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Hello Layn, nice to have a game designer among us.  I hope you will stay here for a while.
If you don´t mind, I have 2 questions:
About the adventure map -> I was a little(more) disapointed from what I saw on the videos. It looks quite cheap for a game of this age and worse than H6 on the graphic side. The combat maps seem very detailed,unit models also very good, but the adventura map no why is it? Is it problem of the game engine, or you didnt put a lot of time into it or are the maps just unfinished ? (no grass effect, only green surface, all trees look same etc.) bad proportions are also a problem - I cant see anything without zoom.
And about the units animatinos -> The attack animations of the upgraded units on shadow council (I think this is the lucky strike animation but im not sure) a lot of units rotate when attack. I looks good on a few units but is a bit boring when I see it on so many units. Why did you decided do it like this ? I think more original ideas would please everybody.
(  please be aware that sometimes we take this game too seriously even if we complain a lot for every detail, I still think the game looks quite decent. And please excuse my bad english )
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We´re beautiful like diamonds in the sky ...
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Layn
Shaper of Lore
Technical Artist, Limbic Ent.
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posted July 23, 2015 06:01 PM |
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Edited by Layn at 18:22, 23 Jul 2015.
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Elvin said:
Really? How can it be so out of scope? I bet there will be dozens of mods for that particular creature soon after the game is released.
Maybe even before that.
Hope so! Modding is awesome.
The difference between modding and doing it on our side, is that modding usually all aspects of it are decided by a single person, maybe a few more if you're working in a small team. You do it and all that matters is that you like it. For us it's a much much longer process, involving a lot more people, each of whom require time (and remuneration) to do their part. What we can do is try to do something half-assed on our own time and hope it'll be approved, but it'd be a gamble and rather than half-ass something it'd be nicer to improve other things that are already on our ToDo (like townscreen VFX )
@Alexine
i've been lurking for a year and a half, i know how serious you all are about heroes
Mhm about the animations. We designed the animations over a span of a long time, so i wouldn't be surprised if at some point details about an older animation end up forgotten and some overlap happens. But i think it happens when the animator tries to make a one handed attack more powerful. Having the body rotate with the attack gives some extra oomph. Unfortunate that it ends up making them all look somewhat samey to you (and probably others)
About the adventure map, i think it's a byproduct of different scale. Heroes 6 could focus on tiny details, since it was about more localized skirmishes (remember how big towns were?). In H7 the map represents a much larger area. I could imagine it could also have something to do with the fact that a lot more interactive objects are on the map. This is just guesswork though, i wasn't present when any of that was discussed/decided. So don't take my word for it
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 23, 2015 07:33 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 19:40, 23 Jul 2015.
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Layn said:
Heya HC!
Yo! Glad to see devs getting involved on HC. The more, the scarier merrier.
My question to you miss is why did people there okay such disconnected art styles, and this kind of art direction in general? Surely you MUST know about the Townscreens and all their problems (even technical), right? Surely you MUST know we have been so disappointed about that to the point we started a thread of its own on that issue, right? Surely you MUST know that the creature concept arts sometimes do not reflect the 3D models (for better or for worse), right? And surely you MUST know that there has been significant feedback from the community and red flags raised along the way in regards to many specific things, so that it's not like these were subtle little issues that went unnoticed, right?
Look, I know outsourcing is a thing, and that Erwan didn't shy away from admitting that some art was indeed outsourced, and I also know that as an artist it is not wrong to have your own style, but since when does that mean that everything goes? Because that's the way it looks to me in all honesty, and that the notion of "standards" is something bellow sea level. Can we please have some more cohesiveness and maturity? Maybe even an unifying Heroes feel? Something that's genuinely awesome instead of cringe-worthy? I mean, you had perfectly good Compendium art in the form of this badass predator and you exchanged it for this old child molesting geezer? Creatures set ablaze on particles as their defining upgrade feature? Textures that appear uncolored (Necropolis creatures) or of very poor quality (adventure map)?
These are the kind of things that are very upsetting even to the untrained eye, so to think that they'd get approved just like that by "experts" on the field really irks me to no end.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 23, 2015 07:34 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 19:36, 23 Jul 2015.
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@Layn
You are pretty open, I like that. It's a fair point but I think that anything would be better than that grandma dino face Anyone with me?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 23, 2015 07:38 PM |
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http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=41506
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 23, 2015 07:44 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 19:45, 23 Jul 2015.
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Elvin said:
@Layn
You are pretty open, I like that. It's a fair point but I think that anything would be better than that grandma dino face Anyone with me?
Sure.
Stevie said:
Can we please have some more cohesiveness and maturity? Maybe even an unifying Heroes feel? Something that's genuinely awesome instead of cringe-worthy? I mean, you had perfectly good Compendium art in the form of this badass predator and you exchanged it for this old child molesting geezer?
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Cyrca
Bad-mannered
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 23, 2015 07:50 PM |
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the drawn art is awful, but the actual model is badass. I say keep it.
Idk why they arent using the H5 model and using the unit model as portrait.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 23, 2015 07:55 PM |
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Cyrca said:
the drawn art is awful, but the actual model is badass. I say keep it.
Idk why they arent using the H5 model and using the unit model as portrait.
Because it is a different engine they are using?
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted July 23, 2015 07:57 PM |
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Edited by Avonu at 19:58, 23 Jul 2015.
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That wasn't the problem with Heroes Online and MMX, which both used H5 models (Treants and Dwarves for example). MMX also used models from Dark Messiah.
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"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted July 23, 2015 07:58 PM |
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Cyrca said:
the drawn art is awful, but the actual model is badass. I say keep it.
Idk why they arent using the H5 model and using the unit model as portrait.
Maybe because the people are sick of seeing the reused stuff from the previous games?
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted July 23, 2015 08:02 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 20:03, 23 Jul 2015.
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Elvin said:
@Layn
You are pretty open, I like that. It's a fair point but I think that anything would be better than that grandma dino face Anyone with me?
Count me in.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 23, 2015 08:14 PM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 20:23, 23 Jul 2015.
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Elvin said:
It's more like a grandma brontosaurus ..
You're lucky this isn't a month or so ago, or i would've scolded you 
Stevie said:
Can we please have some more cohesiveness and maturity? Maybe even an unifying Heroes feel? Something that's genuinely awesome instead of cringe-worthy? I mean, you had perfectly good Compendium art in the form of this badass predator and you exchanged it for this old child molesting geezer?
FTFY
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 23, 2015 08:29 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Stevie said:
Can we please have some more cohesiveness and maturity? Maybe even an unifying Heroes feel? Something that's genuinely awesome instead of cringe-worthy? I mean, you had perfectly good Compendium art in the form of this badass predator and you exchanged it for this old child molesting geezer?
FTFY
Don't fix what isn't broken.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 23, 2015 08:29 PM |
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Elvin said:
It's a fair point but I think that anything would be better than that grandma dino face Anyone with me?
Absolutely.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Cyrca
Bad-mannered
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 23, 2015 08:40 PM |
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My bad i wasnt paying attention when i wrote XD. What i meant is that they should have had used a picture of the model for the portraits, like H5 did, instead of the drawings which are kinda low quality.
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The_green_drag
Supreme Hero
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posted July 23, 2015 08:42 PM |
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Elvin said:
@Layn
You are pretty open, I like that. It's a fair point but I think that anything would be better than that grandma dino face Anyone with me?
+1 personally I just hate the minimum effort put towards the dragons in general. Why is asking for a fresh model of a dragon so hard? They all resemble the h6 dragon in some way and it's irritating to see beloved creatures being stepped on
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 23, 2015 08:49 PM |
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Made a poll to avoid derailing this thread. Maybe some noise will show that we really want it?
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted July 23, 2015 08:51 PM |
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Edited by Datapack at 20:55, 23 Jul 2015.
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Cyrca said:
My bad i wasnt paying attention when i wrote XD. What i meant is that they should have had used a picture of the model for the portraits, like H5 did, instead of the drawings which are kinda low quality.
Taking that back, Heroes 4 didn't do that at all.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
