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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Should Ashan be scraped?
Thread: Should Ashan be scraped? This thread is 42 pages long: 1 10 ... 14 15 16 17 18 ... 20 30 40 42 · «PREV / NEXT»
Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted January 26, 2015 09:41 PM

Sandro400 said:
Citating:
Last symbol was a spider, dead but not dead. She cut the web of demon lies spinning over our world. Batu said, "Orcs will meet a Spider wearing the face of a man. This Spinner will help us save Mother Earth… as Orcs have done before! She didn't say he's Asha's Chosen.
And, in the end, it's her vision. Nothing more, nothing less.
And if Mother Namtaru is alive at the time of H5, then Qujin maybe was reffering to her.
You might be right, but this quote "Orcs will meet a Spider wearing the face of a man" shows us that Mother Namtaru is out of question, she is not a man. So, that only leaves Arantir.
____________
"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted January 26, 2015 09:44 PM
Edited by Pawek_13 at 21:45, 26 Jan 2015.

Sleeping_Sun said:
You might be right, but this quote "Orcs will meet a Spider wearing the face of a man" shows us that Mother Namtaru is out of question, she is not a man. So, that only leaves Arantir.

Or the random Necro hero from fifth campaign mission of Stronghold. You cannot exclude him/her.

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted January 26, 2015 09:45 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 21:46, 26 Jan 2015.

Sandro400 said:

Those nightmares, imo, aren't "chaotic". He just cursed her with nightmares of that grand war, not that he induced them. Malassa drained them and they became MN. Now, as I said, MN isn't even "true" Asha-Death. but she is quite sentient and allies herself with Asha.
And somehow it makes sense that her venom can help one escape from Fate.


War-overlord said:

That the nightmares were inflicted by Urgash does not mean that the embodiment nightmares itself are a being of Chaos. That part was either never there, or it was purged from it when Shalassa and Malassa removed it from Asha.


my version is better.


i miss simplicity

humans: good
nature: good
scientists: good
barbarians: neutral
lizardmen: neutral
devils: evil
slavers: evil
necrophil
undead: evil

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted January 26, 2015 09:46 PM
Edited by verriker at 21:47, 26 Jan 2015.

so I've just been reading up on some stuff, and apparently Jassad in Might and Magic 10 is actually an old universe character making a sneaky cameo,
he was linked to the Ancients and advanced technology just like Corak and Sheltem, and his egg from the epilogue is actually a spaceship lol

how do the Asha worshippers among you guys here reconcile that with the new universe? do you try to ignore it like the UFOs in H5?

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted January 26, 2015 09:54 PM


kiryu133 said:
If Asha is order and everything good on Ashan and her nightmares were inflicted by Urgash (chaos, evil, whatever) and the namtaru is Ashas nightmare, wouldn't the namtaru be more in line with urgash, indirectly making the necromancers evil urgash-worshippers?  And if Sandro tried to remove/kill the namtaru, wouldn't that make him a good guy since he pretty much tried spoiling the plans of this worlds "satan"?

...i'm confused.


brilliant, that was what i was just thinking right now.


Sandro400 said:

Those nightmares, imo, aren't "chaotic". He just cursed her with nightmares of that grand war, not that he induced them. Malassa drained them and they became MN. Now, as I said, MN isn't even "true" Asha-Death. but she is quite sentient and allies herself with Asha.
And somehow it makes sense that her venom can help one escape from Fate.


imo, this still means MN is the darker & corrupted side of asha. seperated or not, she is still a thing born from ashas wounds caused by urgash. and furthermore she is even from "nightmares", which makes me think of, in cthulhian perspective, madness and chaos.

so i think what kiryu's pointed out in his post may be true. personally i enjoyed this idea, a very deep deed of urgash to win the big war.

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted January 26, 2015 09:56 PM

verriker said:
so I've just been reading up on some stuff, and apparently Jassad in Might and Magic 10 is actually an old universe character making a sneaky cameo,
he was linked to the Ancients and advanced technology just like Corak and Sheltem, and his egg from the epilogue is actually a spaceship lol

how do the Asha worshippers among you guys here reconcile that with the new universe? do you try to ignore it like the UFOs in H5?


____________
"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted January 26, 2015 10:03 PM

Humans are best when they are both good and bad. The fact in H5 they had both Light and Dark made perfect sense. We are capable of both inspiring good deeds and atrocious bad deeds. Power corrupts humans easier than elves for example, hence elves can be considered good where as humans fall somewhere in between
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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Sandro400
Sandro400


Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
posted January 26, 2015 10:07 PM

Sleeping_Sun said:
You might be right, but this quote "Orcs will meet a Spider wearing the face of a man" shows us that Mother Namtaru is out of question, she is not a man. So, that only leaves Arantir.


I reffered to MN as the Spider, not as a man

verriker, I don't know what to say about Jassad. It wasn't said that he's that exact same Jassad from the novels, nor the egg-spaceship moment was clarified. It's really something ethereal, as Edwin's notes. Clear nodes, but in-world they might mean nothing.

cleglaw, I think we should draw Ubi-Nox's attention so that question about MN got into Lore Q&A.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted January 26, 2015 10:13 PM

h5 UFO's? where?

TELL ME!

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted January 26, 2015 10:17 PM

Sandro400 said:

cleglaw, I think we should draw Ubi-Nox's attention so that question about MN got into Lore Q&A.


yeah, definietly agreed. that would be very informative & interesting if Ubi-Nox can look at this.

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Sandro400
Sandro400


Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
posted January 26, 2015 10:17 PM

kiryu133 said:
h5 UFO's? where?

TELL ME!


It was Nival's joke alongside tanks and planes (from WW2 I think). They could be found on some campaign mapes, hidden in unreachable places.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted January 26, 2015 10:17 PM

Sandro400 said:
verriker, I don't know what to say about Jassad. It wasn't said that he's that exact same Jassad from the novels, nor the egg-spaceship moment was clarified. It's really something ethereal, as Edwin's notes. Clear nodes, but in-world they might mean nothing.


actually, I'm seeing a quote here from Marzhin saying it is indeed the same character (and they even went to the trouble to ask permission from the writer who created him before they put him in the game, lol)

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Sandro400
Sandro400


Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
posted January 26, 2015 10:22 PM
Edited by Sandro400 at 22:23, 26 Jan 2015.

verriker said:
actually, I'm seeing a quote here from Marzhin saying it is indeed the same character (and they even went to the trouble to ask permission from the writer who created him before they put him in the game, lol)


I know about permission from Geary Gravel but I can't possibly imagine how IP would allow something like egg-spaceship in Ashan
He might be the exact same replica, don't know.
P.S.: I think we got a second question that indeed needs to be answered once and for all in Q&A.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted January 26, 2015 10:28 PM

Sandro400 said:
I know about permission from Geary Gravel but I can't possibly imagine how IP would allow something like egg-spaceship in Ashan
He might be the exact same replica, don't know.
P.S.: I think we got a second question that indeed needs to be answered once and for all in Q&A.


kinda seems to me as if Marzhin just chose to not give a crap about the IP team in this case and snuck him in there anyway lol

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted January 26, 2015 10:32 PM

Sandro400 said:
verriker said:
actually, I'm seeing a quote here from Marzhin saying it is indeed the same character (and they even went to the trouble to ask permission from the writer who created him before they put him in the game, lol)


I know about permission from Geary Gravel but I can't possibly imagine how IP would allow something like egg-spaceship in Ashan
He might be the exact same replica, don't know.
P.S.: I think we got a second question that indeed needs to be answered once and for all in Q&A.


It is the same character. And I did ask Geary Gravel's permission. He even validated Jassad's in-game portrait.

And yes, Erwan gave his blessing for this cameo. As long as cyborgs and aliens and other visitors from outer space remain as cameos, nods and references, he has no problem with it. But these links to the Ancient Universe will never become the focal point of Ashan-based games.

My "unofficial" explanation is that Ashan and the Ancient Universe exist on opposite edges of the Void. The Ancient Universe is a universe where science explains everything, even magic, while Ashan is the opposite. Yet links and passages exist between the two universes, and characters are mirrored too. It's like the yin and yang of the Might & Magic franchise as a whole

But that's not an official lore thing, just my own rationalization of these easter eggs

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Sandro400
Sandro400


Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
posted January 26, 2015 10:33 PM
Edited by Sandro400 at 22:40, 26 Jan 2015.

Marzhin said:
It is the same character. And I did ask Geary Gravel's permission. He even validated Jassad's in-game portrait.

And yes, Erwan gave his blessing for this cameo. As long as cyborgs and aliens and other visitors from outer space remain as cameos, nods and references, he has no problem with it. But these links to the Ancient Universe will never become the focal point of Ashan-based games.


Now I'm a little confused. So it is the same character from the novels in flesh and blood, who came from the Ancient universe to Ashan on the egg-spaceship and then returned back?
Hm. Ok I just never thought Erwan will approve such a direct link, 'cos Ashan is, well, "separate" from others
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted January 26, 2015 10:35 PM

Marzhin said:


And yes, Erwan gave his blessing for this cameo. As long as cyborgs and aliens and other visitors from outer space remain as cameos, nods and references, he has no problem with it. But these links to the Ancient Universe will never become the focal point of Ashan-based games.


this makes me so very, very sad

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted January 26, 2015 10:37 PM

Hi Marzhin! Can you enlighten us about asha-MN-urgash we discussed?

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted January 26, 2015 10:41 PM

Sandro400 said:
Now I'm a little confused. So it is the same character from the novels in flesh and blood, who came from the Ancient universe to Ashan on the egg-spaceship and then returned back?
Hm. Ok


Yes. His "egg" is a Voidship, after all Some years after the end of Geary's novels, Jassad is continuing his mission to review strange worlds for the Arc. I also put some hints that Eil do Mer is also on Ashan, in another part of the world.
How these two ended up on Ashan, however, is anyone's guess...

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted January 26, 2015 10:44 PM

Marzhin said:
And yes, Erwan gave his blessing for this cameo. As long as cyborgs and aliens and other visitors from outer space remain as cameos, nods and references, he has no problem with it. But these links to the Ancient Universe will never become the focal point of Ashan-based games.


well it's very cool that you managed to merge the universes, not so cool that Mister Le Breton is still trying to veto a continuation of JVC's story with the Ancients, but I'm sure he won't be running the franchise forever (unless he really is a lich like the ones he created lol)

by the way, I don't think even all the science and magic in both universes put together could ever explain the plot of Heroes 5 lol

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