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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2014 09:00 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Quote:
however majority of inferno inhabitants live no other purpose then being expandable units in warfare without any personal reasons and affections. some of higher ranked demons are hungry for power but not highly intelligent
and in medieval occultism existed the following phrase "summon the dead for truth and the demons for knowledge" 
Exactly its even stated that wizard's in the seven cities summon demons for forbidden knowledge. Demons are eternal even an angel Sarah dealt with Kha-Beleth to get what she needed.
Demons keep all their memories that is the perk of their life cycle they learn and adapt to prevent it happening again. To get back to their old position many demons would have to learn how to be wise and intelligent and hold the power to keep their position in the hierarchy.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted October 08, 2014 09:09 PM |
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lokdron said:
You can say the same of dungeon minotaurs are simply used as muscle in warfare same as hydra those are the "Beasts" of the faction. Same with inferno the bestial units are there for warfare and destruction.
The stronger units pit lords, incubi, arch devils, succubi. They tempt and corrupt that requires intelligence and you need to be wise. They need to know the chinks within someone's armour to convert them to chaos they need to know how to exploit and manipulate them so they can make them give them their soul. Or even at most strike a deal.
What does that say of dungeon the people who listen to the whispers of the faceless the ones who know of dark secrets and knowledge things other people don't possesses.
Yet a WHOLE clan was converted to chaos? Even sarah an angel thought she is free from chaos she thought that she could return to elrath if kiril killed her. Considering the new information she is now a demon from now on.
There are many forms of destruction there is spiritual destruction and inferno make its an art form. Considering people most likely everyday make deals with demons unknowing they damned themselves.
Considering the shock value of the demon cultists appearing in H6 you don't know if your next door neighbor worships urgash or not. Who knows your best friend may have made a deal with an incubi.
let me rephrase the whole concept in starcraft-style
Inferno are like zergs
they have Kerrigan - which is KhaBeleth the leader the most intelligent and powerful in zerg society
u have Overlords - which are succubus/incubus they have intelligence as well however majority of them is controlled by the leader ^^
and you have the rest of units zerlings , mutalisks etc. meaning various demons who just go to battles because they have been told to
as for dungeon it is protoss
they do have hierarchy, however their units have personalities, feelings, beliefs and so on
as for your points, while i agree on hydra
i can not agree on minotaurs they are not mindless beasts/creatures
it just happened that some of them got enslaved by 1 dark elf clan
however they can be perfectly allied with malassa with 2 remaining clans
manipulations you mentioned were done by only few heroes and indeed succubi who mostly just obey to orders
the master mind was always the leader of invasion whom you can count by fingers on one hand
while units in dungeon who manipulate others are countless
all faceless, majority of dark elves just name it
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted October 08, 2014 09:12 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
Quote:
however majority of inferno inhabitants live no other purpose then being expandable units in warfare without any personal reasons and affections. some of higher ranked demons are hungry for power but not highly intelligent
and in medieval occultism existed the following phrase "summon the dead for truth and the demons for knowledge"
that's not the case in ashan my friend
if we take the "true demons" from folklore then of course you are right
but keep in mind we are talking ashan lore here
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2014 09:12 PM |
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Edited by lokdron at 21:27, 08 Oct 2014.
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You are comparing inferno to the zerg? What?
Er overlord demons in ashan do it here as well. Here from the new lore article.
"Through complex, bloodcurdling rituals involving the Demon’s true name, a Wizard can temporarily summon a Demon to Ashan, However, whatever benefit – power of forbidden knowledge – the Wizard desires is obtained at the cost of his very soul. But we’ll get back to that particular point."
edit:The zerg is nothing like inferno, the zerg don't even have a society so to speak. I don't see the zerg building cities have marketplaces and even an inn. I don't even see the zerg having bar fights either or getting drunk on the table. Or tempting people with forbidden knowledge and other secrets.
edit 2: Yeah I am looking at their society and considering zerg is my favorite faction they are nothing alike in terms of society. Yeah but going by many of the hero profiles for inferno some of them simply made deals for one reason or another. Now we know all it takes is a deal not only wizards seek out demons.
edit 3: I think let's agree to disagree on this subject.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted October 08, 2014 09:13 PM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 21:34, 08 Oct 2014.
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lokdron said:
You are comparing inferno to the zerg? What?
i am comparing the structure of inferno society
just by simplifying it
i do realize its still HoMM 
edit: dont look into the notorious Inferno leaders
look on faction in general
look at the units the demons society
and you will see the point i am trying to make
while not the Kha-Beleth itself who presumably will destroy ashan with the help of dark messiah
all the rest of master-minds in inferno are evenly matched by faceless , who are a creature in line up
the difference is that in dungeon they are many faceless, and dark elf heroes
in inferno they are few
edit2: as for academy mages are hungry for any type of knowledge
forbidden or not, all they do is master all types of magic
even necropolis faction was created because of mages starting to study "forbidden magic"
edit3: well in that case what was the purpose of our discussion? 
while i do respect you have your own opinion and if you choose to stick to it, by all means
but i tend to believe i gave enough explanations at least to equal dungeon rights of being intelligent faction in your eyes
as for starcraft it was just vague analogy intended to make you look at it with different angle
p.s. was interesting to have discussion with you anyways 
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 08, 2014 09:48 PM |
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Hobo2 said:
lokdron said:
Its the same thing that happened with fortress and its happening again here. No matter what I say of anyone says. Inferno is always going to be the "Orange blob" or one dimensional bad guys or the faction that has no character what so ever. No matter how many wall's of text we post as well nothing at all. Not even the fact that we are getting a fresh story with inferno nothing is working.
No. I read the text. There is lots of ranting about their lifecycle and ranks and crap, and none of it matters because they are still an orange blob that is one dimensionally evil.
There was absolutely nothing in there about them having any members other than hell hounds who weren't just red dudes with horns and/or wings. There was absolutely nothing in there about them being in any way sympathetic or interesting from a motivation standpoint. They are as monolithically bad as a Saturday morning cartoon villain, plus they drag in rape references right at the front which is icky and not the kind of thing I want to be in a game my wife may watch over my shoulder.
Everything about them is boring and stupid and bad, and if that's all they could come up with, good riddance.
Apparently you don't even know what a daemon is, let me just sintetize what a demon is: A creature of sin.
Of course, sin may be a concept foreign to you if you think that raping daemons are not okay.
It's also obvious that daemons don't have redeeming qualities as they are the embodiment of sin, being boring is not their thing, as daemons they live to drag people to hell, to bring suffering and destruction.
It's apparent that these daemons are heavily inspired by the Christian daemons, so that would explain their one-dimensional evil (which isn't always a terrible thing) and their aspect, in fact they are quite softcore when confronted with the real deal.
You see, daemons would be out to: Rob a man of everything he got because they envy his riches, they would rape him and then maul him, because they are envious of his life, they would then eat his body only then to return to brag about his death.
But that's simply to make you hate them, to desire their doom, they are made to be unsympathetic as they are the ultimate enemy of mankind.
Now that's out of the way, let's talk about their appearance: they are not simple "orange blobs", that's how an ignorant fool would describe them.
They are and should be hellish, they should be red and black forever blazing in fire, to symbolize their eternal suffering and what they will bring to the world when it's in their grip.
The breeder, that orange blob, should actually be even more blobby (is that even a word), as that's their purpose, to hatch more daemonlings, tormentors need that physical space to keep their claws (unless you like the unrealistic hammer space), juggernauts need that muscular mass to be strong, horned demons also need that.
So it makes sense to them to be "orange blobs" the only thing they are missing, as I said, it's the black of their carbonized skin.
In conclusion, they are getting a deeper story, instead of being just some chaotic spirit they are now an organized legion under one leader, they are trying to destroy their bindings, to be free once again, if that isn't a valid reason to destroy everything I don't know what is.
Now I won't bore you how I think Kha-Beleth mirrors our world's devil, but I hope you understood that daemons aren't just one-dimensional "orange blobs", but have a reason to be the way they are, I was satisfied with H5's concept and I loved how they made H6's Inferno and I hope that they will make Inferno as great as they should be in H7.
(Also, sorry for the rape example, but that was necessary to understand how a daemon works")
____________
Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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lokdron
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2014 09:57 PM |
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Edited by lokdron at 21:59, 08 Oct 2014.
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I am in full agreement with Neraus, they also want to corrupt the righteous. The question is what could make someone go far enough to deal with a demon? Considering what they are and that they are damning their souls to become demon themselves.
What could push a goo man or women no, the children of Asha to do such a thing? That is what I want to see the lure of chaos worship as the spy master said.
Demons also seek spiritual destruction making a priestess of the light sell her soul? Make a paladin lust for more power? Drive an elf to extreme hatred for some transgression dealt by another faction? Demons exploit that and use it to corrupt and twist the person. After I read this article I can understand the function of the Haven inquisition even though the organization is now gone.
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Hobo2
Promising
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2014 10:02 PM |
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I'm not saying that rape is thematically inappropriate for demons, I'm saying that rape is a thematically inappropriate subject matter for a game that my wife is likely to watch me play. Also, it's inappropriate subject matter for a game that children are going to play. I was 11 years old when I first played King's Bounty (in beautiful CGA color), and I do not think it would have gone over well with my parents if there had been discussion of rape in the game.
Yes, I have some gray in my beard now, but I sure didn't when I started playing this franchise.
-Frank
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2014 10:03 PM |
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that was a great post Neraus. mind if use it on mmh7 page?
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 08, 2014 10:04 PM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 22:10, 08 Oct 2014.
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Hobo2 said:
Everything about them is boring and stupid and bad, and if that's all they could come up with, good riddance.
The same could be said about the Elves.
Neraus said:
Now that's out of the way, let's talk about their appearance: they are not simple "orange blobs", that's how an ignorant fool would describe them.
True, a better term is 'uninspired'.
It's possible to make generic demons that still look good.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 08, 2014 10:08 PM |
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Hobo2 said:
I'm not saying that rape is thematically inappropriate for demons, I'm saying that rape is a thematically inappropriate subject matter for a game that my wife is likely to watch me play. Also, it's inappropriate subject matter for a game that children are going to play. I was 11 years old when I first played King's Bounty (in beautiful CGA color), and I do not think it would have gone over well with my parents if there had been discussion of rape in the game.
Yes, I have some gray in my beard now, but I sure didn't when I started playing this franchise.
-Frank
Definitions of rape from The free dictionary (I strongly reccomend it, it's the best online dictionary):
1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.
As you see, Marzhin most probably did not mean sexual abuse. I personally think he was talking about abduction.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 08, 2014 10:11 PM |
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Abduction, that is the first thing that comes to mind when I hear that word.
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 08, 2014 10:11 PM |
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cleglaw said:
that was a great post Neraus. mind if use it on mmh7 page?
Of course, I'm happy that it's appreciated 
Hobo2 said:
I'm not saying that rape is thematically inappropriate for demons, I'm saying that rape is a thematically inappropriate subject matter for a game that my wife is likely to watch me play. Also, it's inappropriate subject matter for a game that children are going to play. I was 11 years old when I first played King's Bounty (in beautiful CGA color), and I do not think it would have gone over well with my parents if there had been discussion of rape in the game.
Yes, I have some gray in my beard now, but I sure didn't when I started playing this franchise.
-Frank
Ah, ok, I may have misunderstood what you said then, anyway, I don't think they'll shove it to your face, it's not like it's a Game of Thrones all of a sudden (save for the obvious references in Haven), so, I believe they would just act like before, you'll have the knowledge of their acts, but they shouldn't explicitly tell you in the campaign (maybe in a scenario).
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 08, 2014 10:30 PM |
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The 'Inferno breaking out of their prision and stablishing themselves in Ashan' is a sentiment shared by many here. I wish Ubi had the guts to do it....
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted October 08, 2014 10:36 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
The 'Inferno breaking out of their prision and stablishing themselves in Ashan' is a sentiment shared by many here. I wish Ubi had the guts to do it....
by many , but not all..
the only time i d like them to break out is with dark messiah destroying anshan
which will result in creation of new world without dragon gods
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2014 10:41 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
The 'Inferno breaking out of their prision and stablishing themselves in Ashan' is a sentiment shared by many here. I wish Ubi had the guts to do it....
I wish Ubi had the guts to do a Heroes game without haven or undead for once.
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blizz
Known Hero
of temper grace
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posted October 08, 2014 11:21 PM |
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I love how hard some people are trying to make inferno interesting. But it's not, not in Ashan setting, not with this background, lore and writing. It a basic, generic example of the "bad guys" for the sake of it.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted October 08, 2014 11:24 PM |
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Inferno is interesting. I love how they make some people hate.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted October 08, 2014 11:46 PM |
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blizz said:
I love how hard some people are trying to make inferno interesting. But it's not, not in Ashan setting, not with this background, lore and writing. It a basic, generic example of the "bad guys" for the sake of it.
I love how you are representing your opinion as fact, and in the end it is just an opinion, like every other.
If it isn't interesting to you, it doesn't mean that it isn't interesting to others.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted October 09, 2014 12:02 AM |
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Inferno H5 vs Inferno H6
whats better?
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This thread is pages long: 
