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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 412 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 80 160 240 320 400 ... 408 409 410 411 412 · «PREV / NEXT»
magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 05, 2020 12:07 AM

well this is oversimplified and not true in many cases

1. debuffing isn't worse than damaging, it only depends on how much debuff and how much damage.
2. the destruction dominance bulya was talking about only applied to magic classes.
3. keeping all schools fully thematic leads to many problems, many spells become useless since the are overruled by spells in the same schools with similar but better effect. Also dark magic was previously useless against necropolis,

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Gidoza
Gidoza


Famous Hero
posted June 05, 2020 02:01 AM

magnomagus said:
well this is oversimplified and not true in many cases

1. debuffing isn't worse than damaging, it only depends on how much debuff and how much damage.
2. the destruction dominance bulya was talking about only applied to magic classes.
3. keeping all schools fully thematic leads to many problems, many spells become useless since the are overruled by spells in the same schools with similar but better effect. Also dark magic was previously useless against necropolis,



I think your #1 is an oversimplification of my previously stated #'s 1-4.  Debuffing is better or equal to damaging, but *only* in very specific circumstances - when the ratio of # of weeks of troops VS spell power is low, and both armies are fairly equal in strength.  If this is not the case, damaging is pretty much always superior (exceptions as our other friend mentioned are things like Hypnotize, which mobilize troops in a particular way - but I wouldn't really consider Hypnotize a "debuff" either).

With #3 - I agree here.  I also wiped out other problems in my mod by just eliminating Hypnotize and Frenzy entirely because I don't think they are balanceable with any kind of assigned value.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 05, 2020 10:21 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 10:22, 05 Jun 2020.

not only 'very specific' circumstances, what well balanced numbers for scaling and hero development for most part of the game, for maore than half of the classes destructive isn't even a viable path, or it isn't even in their skillwheel. also hypnotize and frenzy are easily balanced and also have counters.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 05, 2020 07:47 PM

I have released a hotfix for the RC14 beta to fix the immediate technical issues:

MMH5.5: Hotfix (RC14 Beta 2)
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Adrian70
Adrian70

Tavern Dweller
posted June 06, 2020 01:01 PM

I like the fact you are trying to change spells around and add more diversity. I've always hated the schools in H5. Especially destructive magic which basicly is just damaging spell after damaging spell. Elemental schools were a lot better.

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Tobleroni
Tobleroni

Tavern Dweller
posted June 09, 2020 12:19 PM

Hi,


town management doesnt work in LAN, if Ghost Mode is activated.
Can somebody confirm this?
Is this intended?
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 09, 2020 03:56 PM

have you ran the same map in LAN without ghost mode, did it work?
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etore
etore


Adventuring Hero
posted June 10, 2020 05:09 PM
Edited by etore at 17:11, 10 Jun 2020.



The spell received was Ice Bolt, just the description was wrong.

5.64 beta 2, clean install.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 11, 2020 05:18 PM

noted
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 12, 2020 02:54 PM

RC14 Hotfix Beta 3 was released

Download

-Fixed Runemages and Flamekeepers using wrong skillwheels and witch hut tables
-Fixed glitching LAN menu
-Fixed Thralsai attack animation and missing fx
-Fixed Faiz having no start skill
-Fixed skull of netherworld not being a pocket artifact
-Fixed all reported txt issues with heroes
-Fixed destructive perks floating the wrong text

-new attempt to balance Conjure Phoenix, now it has Magical Immunity, nerfed initiative to lower creeping potential, nerfed A+D to make it more vulnerable to normal creature attacks, buffed DMG to compensate for attack and ini loss. Lowered mana cost to 44.
-balanced Resurrection and Raise dead (slightly higher cost and slightly lower gain)
-celestial shield costs more mana
-buffed edge of balance +4 -1
-nerfed occultism mastery levels, no longer gives SP to destructive casters and less to others, the perks are good enough.
-Gem stars with adv enlightenment
-Giovanni starts with adv dark
-Sandro starts with necromancy
-deirdre starts with occultism
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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Known Hero
posted June 12, 2020 06:33 PM

thGryphn said:
Gandalf196 said:
I very much aprove the initiative, but I think that a heavy magic user should not have artificer as a starting skill (or as a possible skill at all). Wizards' primary skills are perfect, but their secondary skills need some adjustment.


Well, in fact, it is intentional. Wizards, if they started with a magic school, would have been OP. Starting with Artificer balances them out, giving them a bit harder time early game. Not that they have a hard time now, it's just right. They are very powerful late game, so somethings gotta give to balance their strength compared to other classes.




Well, I get what you said, but on a second thought, I don't think it fits them at all; it feels out of place, sincerely.There's got to be a balanced way to make wizards heavy magic users with both the best magic primary and secondary skills.
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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted June 12, 2020 06:58 PM

@Gandalf196

Haven't tested Wizards in RC14 yet, but for now the feel is that if I go for an Academy magic hero I pick an elementalist rather then a Wizard.
Starting with summoning makes Elementalists way more appealing then Wizards. My issue was that Elementalists have access to Artificer as well now, but considering they shouldn't have as much knowledge, their mini arties won't be that strong, and still its a skill they have to invest into if they will use it.

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azalen
azalen


Responsible
Known Hero
posted June 14, 2020 03:08 PM
Edited by azalen at 15:50, 14 Jun 2020.

Hi Magnomagus,

I've been away for a while, and I don't really have time to play test, but here are some off-the-top-of-my-head opinions from your changes.

magnomagus said:

-Eldritsch arrow moved to light magic level 2, dmg isn't elemental



Like this change.  Eldritch arrow was a bit overpowered for level 1 with the mana efficiency, and light needed something to creep with level 1/2.  Might want to rename it "Ray of Light" or something "holy" sounding if possible.  I know this is impossible, but it would be cool if it did extra damage to undead for theming.

magnomagus said:

-Raise dead moved to Dark level 3



Good change balance wise .  What you are addressing here is Summoning being a one-stop shop for Necromancers and thus too overpowered.

magnomagus said:

-Phantom Forces moved to Dark level 4



I like it.  Call Phantom Forces "Summon Shade" or something like that for theming?

magnomagus said:

-deep freeze, fireball, frost ring, lightning bolt have all dropped one level down



I guess this is for 25% hit point increase.  Frost ring was the one spell that was a bit too powerful with its original damage scaling... get the cold pendant and it was creeping easy mode.

magnomagus said:

-Implosion is destructive level 5 and slightly more powerful. Deep freeze is cheaper and weaker



Implosion = should be the pure damage spell.  Deep Freeze should be less damage, but either does CC or makes mobs more damage vulnerable so that your creatures come into play.  I'm not a fan of Armageddon being at level 5... I think it should move back to level 4.

magnomagus said:

-Blind moved to light magic level 4



My first questionable one.  Blind is one of the main reasons to go Dark, so this is a big hit for it power wise.  Obviously you need to make room for phantom forces.  

magnomagus said:

-Earthquake - summoning level 2



Definitely.

magnomagus said:

-Magical Immunity moved to summoning level 3



Cool

magnomagus said:

-Suffering, Righteous might, Endurance and Vulnerability are lowered one level



Sounds good .

magnomagus said:

-Ors are immune to curse of netherworld



Cool

magnomagus said:

-conjured phoenix has rebirth ability and -50%HP



Interesting play change... It will change the way phoenix is used and free up caster turns, but I think it will remain a good spell.

magnomagus said:

A fundamental change is that Scholar and Wisdom are heavily modified to allow heroes to learn high level spells from 'unusual' schools (not in the towns mage guild). this will greatly improve the tactical variation in the game



I am all in favor of Bad skills doing new and interesting things.

magnomagus said:

-Luck, Avenger and Sorcery have reworked branches.



Haven't seen the branches, so can't comment.

magnomagus said:

-Consume corpse is renamed 'drain soul' and has different icons (because eating corpses is inappropriate for humans/elves etc)



There are plenty of examples of normal Elves being corrupted in the Crown Wars (Heroes 5 lore is clearly inspired by Forgotten Realms lore), but that's off-topic.

magnomagus said:

-Master of Life is renamed master of ruin and boosts firewall instead of raise dead



Hmm... I get what you are trying to do here (nerf pyromany and give Master of Life something to do).  Not sure I'm sold on Master of Ruin though.... do I get firewall spell with it?  

magnomagus said:

-pyromancy no longer gives firewall, but fire trap instead.



This is a really good change.  You nerf pyromancy and solve a big starting issue for summoners where they don't get fire trap from level 1 mage guild (super frustrating).  

magnomagus said:

-Plague tent does 50% more dmg



Still think it will be bad, but ok.  Doesn't rally change the fact that every Might Hero is going to do one of two things: First Aid Tent and Double Ballista or Triple Ballista.

magnomagus said:

-sp bonus was removed from cold death



Kinda like it - means there will be more variety in Destruction choices.  Just one thing: you originally gave Cold Death +2 spell power because the original skill was weak, so does it now go back to being weak?  

magnomagus said:

-Counterspell was moved to enlightenment to offer new strategy for might heroes.



Great change.

magnomagus said:

-Dead man luck is renamed fateweaver and also gives sorrow spell.



Sorrow is a strong spell even at base level talent, so this will definitely come into play for might on might battles.  It it procs 1-2 times on your opponents most important stack, then it is definitely worth a might hero action.

-dragon blood crystal summoning is slightly better.

magnomagus said:

-barbarian skills, tribal teachings, tribal rituals and stamina are all buffed significantly.



Dunno what these changes are, so can't comment.

magnomagus said:

-Haven: now has 2 knight classes, a dark and a light one, instead of paladin which was basically a weak knight offering little difference from the real knight



The way I originally interpreted your Paladin class was to get Regeneration and the +10 Celestial Shield skill in shatter summoning and play a defensive light magic/might faction class.  Nothing wrong with the direction you are going, though.

magnomagus said:

-Inferno: gatekeepers have rare option to learn light magic



YES!  This is EXACTLY what they needed.  Now there is a reason to play Gatekeepers.  This is your best change yet.  Also great for the Dungeon faction Assassins.

magnomagus said:

-Sylvan: new Avenger class focused on imbuing arrows with dark or destructive magic, ranger is more conventional 'forest knight'



I think I like this.  Warden was a boring class to play, pretty much focusing on Treant Take Roots, Regeneration, and Retaliation Strike.  They weren't bad, but they weren't really compelling form a gameplay perspective.  Now, you still have that option, but can take it one of two ways: offensive or defensive.

magnomagus said:

-Necropolis: Since Raise dead was moved to dark magic, a new heavy magic class is introduced: Nethermage, the necromancer is now the balanced class and has pretty much same development as TOE version.



I don't think I like this change at all.  WTH is a Nethermage?   Necromancer's are bad ass magic dealers, period.  Vecna ain't no Netherhmage.

I really liked the Necromancer classes the way they were.  There was nothing wrong with the Reaver class conceptual design: basically a might hero with raise dead and dark debuffing support -  they were the odd man out with the current meta on Dark being weak, etc....

magnomagus said:

-Dungeon: weak Assassin class replaced with Trickster class starting with luck, modified minotaur guards to work with soldiers luck, has rare option to go for light magic



Dark Elves are not Tricksters, they are Assassins.  Tricksters implies something mischievous/comical, whereas Dark Elves are dangerous - very, very dangerous.  Do you think Jarlaxe would appreciate being called a Trickster?  Nothing wrong with your skill redesign, just lose the "Tricksters" and keep the "Assassins".

magnomagus said:

-Fortress: Runemage is now offensive balanced class with better access to summoning and dark, Flamekeeper is heavy magic class for light+destructive combo



Dwarven might heroes are so overpowered starting with War Machines and some of their hero specials, that there rally wasn't any reason to play Runemages.... we will see if this continues to be the case.

Personally, I think you would have to do something drastic, like take runes away from Engineers all together to make Runemages stand out.

magnomagus said:

-Academy: Seer replaced with enchanter starting with light magic, elementalist is nerfed and renamed conjurer and is balanced class, Wizard is heavy magic class



I like it for Elementalists.  They  should be a summoner with some might stat/skill support - but more magic oriented than most mixed class given the faction.  

Wizards are the pure magic class... good move.  

I'm not sure that "Enchanter" implies a light magic user... might want to come up with a better name for that - I personally kinda liked "Seer" as it implied some premonition power given their original focus on Luck.

magnomagus said:

-Stronghold: balance improvements to skillwheels (as with all factions)



Can't comment until I see it.


magnomagus said:

All creatures have around 20-25% more HP to achieve the following goals:

-Improve unit movement tactics
-Weaken exploitative 1-unit blocker tactics, boost stronghold that lacks the ability for such tactics
-Lower importance of first turn and effect of RNG on battle outcome.
-Higher danger level of melee neutrals.
-Lower danger level of ranged and destructive neutrals.
-Weaken destructive heroes a bit (could have been done by other means but it was already a welcome side effect).



I can't comment on specifics, but I think you have identified all the problems.  

Ranged dealers were simply put, too favored, in creeping.  It was too the point where, on the map, you were happy to get slow walkers over everything else, since they were pushovers compared to ranged units and magic units.  Slow walker neutrals needed a buff to be more threatening to the player.

You are also right to address the 1st turn issue.  The game is richer when players have a chance to react and counter-punch vs just seeing their army melt on the first turn to Destruction magic/lucky strikes.    

I'm not sure how you are going to weaken 1-unit blocker tactics.  It is fundamental to how the game works.  The main resource limiting 1 unit blocking are army slots, but you can get around that using a second hero.  I guess the main thing is you have to insure that a single ranged stack with War Machines/Spell support is not enough to take out neutrals.    


magnomagus said:

other creature stuff

-regeneration abilites and spell have been adjusted to new HP values.
-magnetic golems healing is reduced to 25% spell DMG.
-vampire healing reduced to 40% (adjustment for higher HP)
-minotaur guards have reworked stats and assault ability instead of double attack (to work with soldiers luck).
-stronghold t5 rage level 3 doesn't give double attack but +8 Attack instead, since this was very unfair to executioners.
-executioners have double attack instead of cleave.



Balance changes that are warranted.  Most curious to see what you do with Minotaurs, because I'd like to see these units shine again like they did in Heroes 3 (within a balanced framework of course).


ARTIFACTS

magnomagus said:

-All +% DMG boosting artifacts reduced to 30% from 50%



Great change.  These artifacts were crazy overpowered for being basic artifacts.  I'd might even go further to 25%.

magnomagus said:

-All -% DMG protection artifacts reduced to 40% from 50% OR 20% from 25%



Doesn't come into play in creeping, but guessing it is an issue in PvP.  

magnomagus said:

-All scrolls also give +2 Knowledge



Issue with scrolls is the mastery level issue.  Most spells are not good without expert level casting.  There were some exceptions like phantom forces scroll where a might hero could phantom forces his overpowered level 1 stack.

magnomagus said:

-All wands also give +2 Spellpower



ok.

magnomagus said:

-ring of vitality is minor



Good mainly for Necropolis and a good change.

magnomagus said:

-ring of banishment is relic
-dwarven smithy hammer is minor
-sword of might improved to +3 attack
-beginners magic wand improved to +3 Spellpower



Minor tweaks.


magnomagus said:

ADVANCED RMG

-2 new template series (Ladder & Gladiator) for multiplayer games with starting towns far apart


Awesome awesome.


TY for all your hard work keeping the game alive.

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Tobleroni
Tobleroni

Tavern Dweller
posted June 14, 2020 04:47 PM

magnomagus said:
have you ran the same map in LAN without ghost mode, did it work?

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Tobleroni
Tobleroni

Tavern Dweller
posted June 14, 2020 04:51 PM

magnomagus said:
have you ran the same map in LAN without ghost mode, did it work?


I have tested 3 different maps till now. Its always the same...with activatet ghost mode town management does not work. If Ghost mode is not activated town management works

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 14, 2020 05:44 PM

@tobleroni:
if other all other scripted features, like witch huts asking questions, work, then ghost mode is somehow overwriting custom abilities. probably not fixable

@Azalen: Thank you for your feedback, I'm not sure why you are using forgotten realm lore instead of Ashan lore, where nethermages are a thing, Sandro is one for example. But lore had very little to do with this change, mostly reavers being a dead end in multiplayer. There was a long discussion about this on discord, not sure it all worked out yet, perhaps now the nethermages are too powerful and the necromancers a dead end. Tricksters (a class name from h7) which I had mixed feelings about the name, but others seem to like it.
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kyjoz18
kyjoz18

Tavern Dweller
posted June 16, 2020 03:13 PM

Can somebody tell me which files are responsible for language of the base and HoF campaign? I'm trying to make them polish with dialogs as well. Already got whole game in polish except dialogs for old campaigns. I got the files, just not the sure which to replace.

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azalen
azalen


Responsible
Known Hero
posted June 16, 2020 04:49 PM
Edited by azalen at 16:54, 16 Jun 2020.

I had a chance to take a quick look at your Beta 3.  

My one concern would be this:

With an across the board 20-25% HP hike (forget what it was), higher tier units benefit the most, wheras lower tier units benefit less.  

I'm a bit concerned that you might make the game TOO higher tier unit dominant.  

Example...

Magma Dragons go from 280 to 350 hit points.  A full 70 hit point gain.  

Blood Furies go from 21 to 27 hit points.  A more modest 6 hit point gain.

Yes, from a pure hit point perspective, the stacks have the same amount of hit points total.  However, it is much harder to reduce the offensive potential of the higher level stack than it is to reduce the offensive potential of the lower tier stack, because it is much harder to kill individual units in the level 7 stack.   The hit point scaling hasn't impacted the ranged damage dealers ability to kill lower tier units as much whereas the Magma Dragons have become unstoppable tanks.

Personally, I might lower the percentage hp buff scaling as you go up the tiers to something like 12% hp bonus at level 7.

Just a suggestion.


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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 16, 2020 05:09 PM
Edited by thGryphn at 17:36, 16 Jun 2020.

azalen said:
I had a chance to take a quick look at your Beta 3.  

My one concern would be this:

With an across the board 20-25% HP hike (forget what it was), higher tier units benefit the most, wheras lower tier units benefit less.  

I'm a bit concerned that you might make the game TOO higher tier unit dominant.  

Example...

Magma Dragons go from 280 to 350 hit points.  A full 70 hit point gain.  

Blood Furies go from 21 to 27 hit points.  A more modest 6 hit point gain.

Yes, from a pure hit point perspective, the stacks have the same amount of hit points total.  However, it is much harder to reduce the offensive potential of the higher level stack than it is to reduce the offensive potential of the lower tier stack, because it is much harder to kill individual units in the level 7 stack.   The hit point scaling hasn't impacted the ranged damage dealers ability to kill lower tier units as much whereas the Magma Dragons have become unstoppable tanks.

Personally, I might lower the percentage hp buff scaling as you go up the tiers to something like 12% hp bonus at level 7.

Just a suggestion.




This is actually a great point. 20% HP increase with 35 defense is not the same as 20% HP increase with 2 defense, despite the higher growth numbers at lower tiers.

I really wouldn't want low tiers crumbling at the feet of tier 7s due to this change... So a tiered increase in HPs sounds right.

To really do this in a balanced way, how about using (WeeklyGrowth)x(Power) as the basis? For example, Academy tier 1 has 20 growth and 63 power. Their "rating" is 1260. Tier 7 has power of 4822 with 1 growth, so 4822 is their rating. Given these, Tier 7 should get one quarter of the HP boost as Tier 1. So, like 40% to 10%.

It makes sense to me. Anything off with this logic?

Another, possibly more valid approach is to compare the upgraded variants. Academy T1 upgrade has 105 power, with 20 growth, rating is 2100. T7 upgrade has 6095 power. With these, the T7s should get around one third of the HP boost as Ts. So, more like 30% to 10%.

What can be done ultimately is find the lowest "rating" unit in the game, set a HP growth % to it, and scale every other unit's HP boost accordingly. I can quickly do that with a few lines of code...


Last Edit: "Rating" may be based on experience (per killed creature), rather than power. It may be better since it is more readily understood...

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted June 16, 2020 05:55 PM

While this would be easy to fix, I'm not sure there is anything that needs fixing. Since T1 and T7 creatures should still have equal difficulty fighting against each other.

For example:

T1 = 8HP 2D => grows into 10HP 2D
T7 = 250HP 32D => grows into 312.5HP 32D

30D = 1.75 bonus

so imagine D didn't exist creatures would only have hitpoints
then their stats become like this

4.57HP => grows into 5.71HP
437.5HP => grows into 546.87HP

437.5/4.57 = 546.87/5.71
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