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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Racism, Policing, Political Correctness, and Civil Unrest
Thread: Racism, Policing, Political Correctness, and Civil Unrest This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 30, 2018 11:53 PM

Language problems.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 30, 2018 11:56 PM

Nevermind, they are the best kind of problems.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 31, 2018 04:49 AM
Edited by Stevie at 04:55, 31 Mar 2018.

I'm trying to keep an open mind about this case and the court's decision. Would anyone say that declaring a terrorist attack an act of justice is not terrorism apology? Because as far as I can tell, the court is right on that one.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 31, 2018 09:01 AM

No, she said the death of a butcher is an act of justice because he is a killer too, not the way he was assassinated. Had he been killed by a car accident and related in the news, she would have written same thing. Apology of terrorism means you agree and support with the causes, in this case - as in so many others - slay of infidels, revenge for "Syrian brothers" and so. Which I doubt she cares about.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 31, 2018 09:19 AM

What if it had been a kosher butcher and a French Arab muslim veggie had driveled about karma and justice?

Do we really need silly people to publicly comment on how their favorite enemies so deserve to die in terrorist attacks?

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted March 31, 2018 12:34 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 12:35, 31 Mar 2018.

The point is, the terrorist attack is just a circumstance. Stating from the Internetz tribune that you don't sympathize with some victim of an atrocity doesn't speak highly of you but the web is full of such ****, as is the rest of the everyday life. None of it equals sympathizing with the terrorists however, unless stated explicitly or implied clearly enough - which is not the case here.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 31, 2018 01:08 PM

It's not a question of "do we really need it," it's a question of "do we have the right to outlaw it" and the answer is no to me.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 31, 2018 01:42 PM

Zeno & artu, you are both wrong. For one thing it's not circumstantial. There is no need to even mention the terror attack when you want to communicate that butchers are not your favorite kind of people. Or else she COULD have said, EVEN THOUGH she generally thinks that butchers are a very low life form, not even THEM would deserve to die in a random terror attack.

Second, yes, of course we have the right to outlaw it. If you POST something, it's like printing a newspaper or a leaflet. That's something else completely than saying something in your favorite dive and with your veggie friends.

I personally think that is an important thing. Before we had the internet, this wasn't an issue, obviously. She might have gone to Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park or get into some afternoon TV show to get her message across - but nowadays it's pretty easy, obviously. And, as they say, with more options come more obligations.

Lastly, it's about outlawing terror and terrorists, and the law makes it clear that you cannot go ahead and - how indirectly as it may be - that there is something good about terror. If you'd say, for example, that it's a good think the WTC got flattened because it was so ugly, it would be the same thing. AGAIN, you COULD opine that, but would have to phrase it differently. While you think, that the WTC was ugly like hell, it shouldn't have been served as a mass grave.

If you want to alienate people or express a low opinion on anyone, if you do it openly you can be expected to do it in a way YOU WILL GET AWAY WITH.

Think first, post later.

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Stevie
Stevie


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Undefeatable Hero
posted March 31, 2018 01:50 PM
Edited by Stevie at 20:46, 31 Mar 2018.

I can very well understand that the terrorist attack was only a circumstance to her message, but it is precisely because it was the circumstance that she falls under the jurisdiction of anti-terrorism French laws. Context is absolutely crucial in a court case because it can incriminate or dismiss the charges. In this instance, you can construct a narrative that she showed to be supportive of terrorism as far as the killing of that butcher goes at the very least, which is something I find hard to argue against. I am aware that terrorism per se was not the ideological fuel behind her message, rather vegetarianism. However, if her interests aligned that much as to be able to excuse someone's death as justice even in the context of terrorism, then I'm afraid it was right for her to be put on trial and found guilty.

Bear in mind that I'm going along with the French law on this one for the purpose of reasoning the case. If the law is good or bad is another discussion.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 31, 2018 02:01 PM

She didn't even say she supported him getting killed, all she said was she had zero sympathy for the victim, where is the apology in that? Are you forced to feel sympathy by this French law? You can not talk about free speech if someone cant even express such a personal feeling.
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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 31, 2018 02:10 PM

That is most likely not the crux of the issue. Rather the fact that she finds justice in the terrorist attack for whatever reason. Linking that to terrorism apologetics should be easy for any prosecutor worth their salt.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 31, 2018 02:19 PM
Edited by artu at 14:23, 31 Mar 2018.

But she hasn't openly said it was justifiable either, not having sympathy doesnt necessarily mean you think killing is justifiable. I am against the death penalty for instance, but that doesnt mean I feel symphathetic to every death row inmate.
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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 31, 2018 02:34 PM

Her lack of sympathy is besides the point.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 31, 2018 02:38 PM

Her lack of sympathy is the statement that got her convicted.
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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 31, 2018 02:42 PM

You are making a COURT CASE here and argue on HER behalf.

You can, as I've shown express your opinion on butchers in general and on that one specifically in a way that canNOT be interpreted as terrorist friendly or whatever - which is actually pretty easy, and as I said, thinking before posting is generally a good idea, a lesson she'll hopefully learn from this.


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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 31, 2018 02:52 PM

Oh, she'd certainly walk away if I was her lawyer.

Freedom of speech is more valuable than her lesson, convicting someone because they express their own feelings is a serious overreach in my book.
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I admit it, I like it when they are bombastic - Neraus

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 31, 2018 03:06 PM
Edited by Stevie at 15:47, 31 Mar 2018.

artu said:
Her lack of sympathy is the statement that got her convicted.


The Guardian said:
"So then, you are shocked that a murderer is killed by a terrorist," wrote the animal rights activist. "Not me. I’ve got zero compassion for him, there’s some justice in it."


Her lack of sympathy might make for good headlines, but it doesn't make sense for that to be the main reason behind her condemnation. She also said there's justice in the terrorist attack, and if you don't avert your eyes from that crucial fact, it does fall in line with terrorism apology and then her being found guilty makes perfect sense. Of course, you can go ahead and ignore that line of reasoning to focus on her lack of compassion, in which case it will obviously not make sense.
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted March 31, 2018 03:52 PM
Edited by EnergyZ at 15:52, 31 Mar 2018.

Does it really that matter? It's a stupid way to think that one should be grateful that a butcher is killed. For another one will take its place. This way, the woman is embarrassing herself, and showing lack of respect for the dead. Just another SJW troll case one should not pay attention to.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted March 31, 2018 04:07 PM
Edited by Galaad at 16:21, 31 Mar 2018.

The Guardian said:
"So then, you are shocked that a murderer is killed by a terrorist," wrote the animal rights activist. "Not me. I’ve got zero compassion for him, there’s some justice in it."


Oh wow, this is not exactly what she said. The exact post is ben quoi, ça vous choque un assassin qui se fait tuer par un terroriste ? pas moi, j'ai zéro compassion pour lui, il y a quand même une justice !

Which would translate to So what? You guys are shocked that a murderer is killed by a terrorist? Not me, I have zero compassion for him, at least there is some justice!.

'Some justice in it' and 'there is some justice' does not have the same implication to her meaning, at all. Actually, the fact she emphasizes a justice could even translate to 'at least, there is some kind of justice (in the world)', which is a broader expression in french language that can be used for anything. Her post is of polemic nature to spread her vegan values, it's nowhere close to terrorism apology. GG @TheGuardian
And GG, French government
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Even Italian restaurants seemed to betray me. -Neraus

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 31, 2018 04:36 PM
Edited by Stevie at 16:40, 31 Mar 2018.

She absolutely related the terrorist attack to justice one way or the other, that's more than enough to build a solid case for terrorism apology. It's like a textbook example of what terrorism apology is - justifying terrorism. She basically said it was just for a butcher to die at the hand of a terrorist. Kind of justice, amount of justice, percentage of justice and whoever knows what other figures of speech and mental gymnastics one tries to employ, she clearly implied that there was justice in it. Seeing these attempts at downplaying the fact to then act with righteous indignation as if some sort of tyranny has happened when the case can be so easily understood is disappointing to say the least.

If anyone wants a better case for freedom of speech infringement, I'll help you out with something recent. Here.
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The Young Traveler

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