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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 16, 2015 04:44 AM |
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artu said:
when you have people such as the one in the video saying things like "rape is their culture"
It's an overstatement but discriminatory roles are not just rape and mystical thinking is something I personally dislike.
Not saying I know what to do with these human beings but since I don't like their ways of thinking, I'm not too eager to have them in the neighbourhood. The same goes for any other religious group, I want to live in the most secular world I can.
P.S. It's confusing to me that we can so easily applaude Malala's Nobel price winning and immediatly forget what it was about. We don't want it to happen there but we are ready to import it to Europe in the name of diversity? Sharia courts in the European Community? F...
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Neraus
Promising
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Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 18, 2015 08:14 PM |
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artu said:
when you have people such as the one in the video saying things like "rape is their culture"
It is an over generalization, but what can you say after you observe that there are these men, coming from abroad, from a predominantly backwards culture, that rape fellow migrants and those who help them?
The same applies to cases like the Rotherham rape gangs, predominantly Pakistanis, is rape part of their culture? Probably not, but there is an influence somewhere in their community that inspires the members of this group to commit such an act, this generalizing is an attempt to root out the cause of this behaviour, which I don't really agree with but it's still an attempt.
That reminds me, we in Sicily have been convinced that the migrants are trustworthy people seeking jobs and help, since the majority have been behaving in a good way, that's why we're put off guard once they do criminal acts, what we do is also a generalization, but it's positive so nobody speaks up against that.
And besides, coming from one of the most "backwards" European societies, the woman has always been idolized and protected here, a rapist would have been lynched or shot if he had tried to come close to the daughters of one of my kinsmen, so perhaps that's the reason there are less rapes made by migrants, or for that reason less rapes than all the rest of Italy (or at least for what I've seen in the data in 10 minutes).
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 18, 2015 08:25 PM |
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Yes, I know the kind of protection you talk about, that kind of "traditional protection" applies only to "good girls" though.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
Promising
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Pain relief cream seller
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posted October 18, 2015 08:31 PM |
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In the rest of the world maybe, but here, you may be the daughter of a banker or of a farmer, she'll be protected, for us it's still serious business, as long as you stay in the rural towns (where I grew up).
But alas, with time this is also vanishing so maybe we'll become like the rest of the west with time, which I think is a shame, others will think we're finally getting on with the times...
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 18, 2015 08:37 PM |
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Edited by artu at 20:39, 18 Oct 2015.
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I'm not talking about social class, the rural kind of protection only applies when the woman is considered a well behaved woman, however if she is seen as a tramp (which is very easy by rural standards) then it turns into something else. So the kind of protection you talk about is also a very conservative form of oppression.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 18, 2015 08:47 PM |
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If she is seen as a tramp they gang up together with the muslins and, since beer is not allowed, share other commun interests. It's called bonding.
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Neraus
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posted October 18, 2015 09:03 PM |
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Edited by Neraus at 21:13, 18 Oct 2015.
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@artu
I was initially going to talk about that, but then I figured that perhaps you meant class since I've seen in shows and films that fathers protect their daughters when they are of a certain status, so I figured that was the case.
But actually here they also protect the tramp as every family member is extremely valued for us, be it a criminal or a saint, we'll be protecting our family, as a matter of fact it is still common for us to have our parents (or grandparents in certain cases) at home or as our neighbours (as a matter of fact my family kept my grandparents in our home, but I had the misfortune of being born after most of them died).
Also I don't care if that protection is oppression, the family's safety comes before the law I believe, without a family a person doesn't have the means to survive in society and as such I believe that the state should protect and encourage the creation of families.
As I said though, give it time and we'll become modern, we have already started making less children, eventually we'll leave our tramps in the street and our old men in retirement houses.
@Bloodsucker
I think you got us mixed with the muslims, we drink, a lot, and unless it's artigianal, we don't drink beer, we drink wine!
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 19, 2015 02:48 AM |
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Neraus said:
Also I don't care if that protection is oppression, the family's safety comes before the law I believe, without a family a person doesn't have the means to survive in society and as such I believe that the state should protect and encourage the creation of families.
Ahh, yes, that lovely scene from the Godfather where Michael walks with his Sicilian bride-to-be and the family elders of the girl are walking just behind just to make sure he doesn't get any wrong ideas. It's just heartwarming, nothing beats the traditional way of flirting! 
Seriously though, I also think family is important and my grandma is my favorite family member, I visit her house all the time, I'd welcome her any time if she wasn't able to live by herself. That's not what we're talking about though, is it? And it's not the state's business to interfere in such matters, the choice should be yours.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
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posted October 19, 2015 02:03 PM |
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Edited by Neraus at 14:04, 19 Oct 2015.
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Of course, it was just as a reply to it being an oppressive thing, I don't really agree with that notion of oppression by protection.
Which brings me to another point, why are there so few migrant families compared to the young men that arrive? I thought that maybe since where they come from there should be these old family values they would bring with them their family.
I mean, I know it's a tragedy if the whole family sinks in the Mediterranean, but if the man fled and the rest of the family gets killed in an airstrike isn't it a tragedy too?
So why are they leaving behind the rest of their family if it's so urgent to flee their country?
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 19, 2015 02:38 PM |
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Edited by artu at 14:40, 19 Oct 2015.
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I didn't check the statistics on that, I wouldnt take the comment on the video for granted. Refugees here are not just young men, they are usually families but not very old people in general. I guess, at a certain age, people prefer to stay where they had lived despite the risk. It's very hard to start all over if you are 70, and I'm not just talking about physical handicaps.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Neraus
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posted October 19, 2015 02:49 PM |
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I went on the EuroStat, there is a severe disparity in refugees aged 16 to 40 in favour of males while the same can be applied for females for refugees over 60 years old, but that's a small part of the refugees.
Well, leaving the old behind isn't strange, I don't think they would want to risk such a trip for hope, what bothers me is the lack of young families, I'd expect the numbers being at least more equal, with more women fleeing than now, yes, there could be families with 5 or more sons, but I don't really expect 1500 families with 5 sons each.
Of course, I'm speculating, it's just that this planted this little seed of doubt in all of this.
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Salamandre
Admirable
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Wog refugee
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posted October 19, 2015 03:22 PM |
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It has been already stated that only 1 out of 5 refugees is from Syria.
Then also that 72% of Syrian refugees are young males. Which is quite disturbing, seeing that obviously they leave all family behind at an age when they are able to fight-I would expect more babies and women.
In all, it doesn't smells as nice as the left medias want us to believe. In fact it smells more like economic migrants, like we were used in the last 3 decades, + add to those certainly Isis fighters disguised in sheep, as we were properly warned.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 19, 2015 07:10 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Which is quite disturbing, seeing that obviously they leave all family behind at an age when they are able to fight
Their persians, not spartans.
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Zenofex
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posted October 19, 2015 07:26 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Then also that 72% of Syrian refugees are young males. Which is quite disturbing, seeing that obviously they leave all family behind at an age when they are able to fight-I would expect more babies and women.
While I generally agree that many of the refugees are no real refugees by the looks of it (especially those who actually have preferences which country should "save" them), I don't think that "the young men should have stayed in Syria and fight" argument holds water. Fight for whom? The whole civil war was started quite artificially, with the already trite bullcrap of "democratic protesters rise against the bloody dictator and the soft-hearted Western countries decided to help them in their rightful cause". Assad's opposition doesn't have nearly as much support among the Syrians as the Western governments and many media sources claim, a very big part of the "free Syrian army" seems to be composed of mercenaries and foreigners, moreover quite some weapons shipped to these guys ended up with ISIS. On the other hand Assad himself is hardly the most beloved person in his country. Add the many "true" terrorist groups getting funds by "illegally" selling oil, archaeological artefacts, loot of all sorts and directly from the goody democratic friend Saudi Arabia which kill left and right and you get a bloody mess where you, if you're a normal person, can only fight for your own survival. There is no real cause to fight for in the war in Syria, just a bunch of Great Powers and their cronies f***ing the country directly or via proxies for their own interests.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 19, 2015 07:52 PM |
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Zenofex said:
There is no real cause to fight for in the war in Syria, just a bunch of Great Powers and their cronies f***ing the country directly or via proxies for their own interests.
And where is that different from every other war?
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Zenofex
Responsible
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posted October 19, 2015 08:26 PM |
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That's quite naive really, there have been many wars where the majority of the population of a given country was determined (or became determined) to fight for something - independence from external ruler, reclaiming territories lost as a result of X, overthrowing a regime / puppet government or just following some charming leader in his glorious conquest, whatever. Wars triggered by foreign powers where the population isn't decisively polarised and ready to support some "cause", real or fictitious, are nothing like that, hence why people aren't eager to fight in them at all.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 19, 2015 10:35 PM |
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Zenofex said:
"democratic protesters rise against the bloody dictator and the soft-hearted Western countries decided to help them in their rightful cause".
 
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2015 08:31 PM |
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I'm... not sure what to make of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t7wypDW0jY
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted October 24, 2015 05:27 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 17:29, 24 Oct 2015.
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That was very sad stuff.
Here's a decent Doc-report UK about the Problem from the British perspective, Probably pertains to any nation in the West today.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted October 24, 2015 05:33 PM |
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If they come to Europe, they must respect the laws of the countries they are moving into, like everyone else. The problem, as we all see, comes when they don't.
It's fairly simple without any ideology discussion.
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This thread is pages long: 
