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| Thread: Terrorist attack at Berlin |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted December 20, 2016 02:34 PM |
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Edited by AlHazin at 14:53, 20 Dec 2016.
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artu said:
Yes, Islam sucks and no one on their right mind would call it the religion of peace [...]
My good mate, would you mind not to insult people's religion without care, as such unfounded speeches hurt the feelings of some great members without bringing anything valuable to the discussion.
Of course this request applies only in the case you fully deem I'm on my right mind. 
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 20, 2016 02:35 PM |
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Sorry Fred. 
I never intended to hurt you and I take everything back I said behind your back. 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 20, 2016 02:39 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
Sorry Fred.
I never intended to hurt you and I take everything back I said behind your back.
that's ok, baby. i forgive you. *hugs, and squeezes a buttcheek*
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 20, 2016 02:46 PM |
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AlHazin said:
as such unfounded speeches hurt the feelings of some great members without bringing anything valuable to the discussion.
And that's how we walk in circles. Islam is a complex system organizing the society, beside being a religion. If one says "communism sucks" and every communist out there is offended and asks to retire, then we go nowhere. Learn to live while some things may hurt you, we all do that.
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted December 20, 2016 02:57 PM |
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While your reasoning makes sense Sal, criticizing an ideology because it fails in many points in a thing, where keeping making amalgams between a way of life and mass murders is somewhat another.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 20, 2016 03:12 PM |
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AlHazin said:
artu said:
Yes, Islam sucks and no one on their right mind would call it the religion of peace [...]
My good mate, would you like not to insult people's religion without care, as such unfounded speeches hurt the feelings of some great members without bringing anything valuable to the discussion.
Of course this request applies only in the case you fully deem I'm on my right mind.
So, people throw around sarcastic "religion of peace" in quotation marks after a Muslim attack, I object by stating that Muslims had been living in Western countries for centuries and such attacks were not a pattern and not theological at the core but rather have a lot to do with the recent context in the Middle East, with also handing out the fair point that, of course, Islam is not a religion that is known for spreading out peace. And you choose to be offended about my objection?
Muslims are not Quakers, you know? And it is my opinion that Islam, at face value, in no historical or theological context, can be significantly associated with constructing an anti-war ideology. There are verses in Quran about how to handle battles, how to treat prisoners of war, how women should not nag when their husbands return from battle etc... And it is without any doubt encouraged for believers to spread their religion by conquest. That is the historical fact and that is how things went down during the time the book was written and Muhammed marched his armies. Such historical facts are mostly irrelevant in explaining the recent suicide attacks though, you can have a meaningful, valuable argument by trying to make people understand that as a Muslim yourself. Or you can choose trying to defend and praise your faith blindly no matter what and serve a confirmation bias that "Muslims cant be reasoned with." Feel free to pick, paradise is under the shadow of swords...
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted December 20, 2016 04:03 PM |
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Edited by yogi at 16:07, 20 Dec 2016.
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@all: The ends DO NOT justify the means. There is no end
LizardWarrior said:
Cheap points, USA is a state based on genocide. They killed off most native americans.
That's what happens when you let a continuous stream of economic refugees into your country. 
Quoted For Truth; the true history of "civilization"
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yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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AlHazin
Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
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posted December 20, 2016 04:05 PM |
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You'll want to make a slight difference between what we can call the true Islam, and what psychologically weak people do conviced that it is for its sake, mate. Yes I have the sheer folly -because it is the way it's usually seen, to say that my faith is against what is done in its name, if it was really the case I wouldn't be here discussing with you. What I'd like you to understand, it's that Islam is beyond the twisted way people see it today, and used to see it since its advent. Djihad, which can be "translated" as crusade, is a warring mouvement that is meant to be exclusively defensive, not offensive. Our 1954 revolution was a Djihad, we didn't go to invade anyone, we simply freed our own country from oppression. When the prophet (SAAWS) marched against his arab enemies, it was to defend the muslims against the arab paganists, freeing Mekka without a single drop of blood by the way. So yeah, Islam follows an anti-war ideology, yet it precised some warring behaviours because we're fooling none, conflicts occur. Not only can I confirm your statement as of the irrelevance of the arab conquests and today's events, but I can go further and certify you that since its very beginning it has been a philosophy of peace. By the way, I think you stated somewhere yourself that Islam was "used" by political forces as an easy mean to rule. This is it, you can use it for the best or the worst.
You'll notice too that the little choice you're giving me is not needed, as if I were as biaised as those who are commonly reffered to as muslims, I wouldn't even be an HC member.
And this is where I want to take you, I, as some others, truly know our religion ain't about war. I don't of course deny the way it is used today, as it has been by the past, yet unnecessary generalization is getting us nowhere. Water is necessary for life, although you might boil it and throw it at someones face, or make bullets-shaped-like ice cubes and fire them with a long range riffle. Got it?
artu said:
Paradise is under the shadow of swords...
This, I'll admit it is somewhat misguiding. So I'll precise that this is not an "Islamic" quote, as this comes directly from what the algerian pirates used to put on their flags, when they wrecked european ships, which is, again, in contradiction with Islam.
The sentence is written on the red flag.
What is laughable, is that in my own country, I'm seen as liberal as westerns are because I'm not OK with such extremists behaviours, and in HC, I'm seen as stubborn as extremists because I'm not OK with the stigmatization done with Islam.
No side of this sea is OK with me, guess I'll drown myself under and search for a room for rent in Atlantis.
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Nothing of value disappears from this world, it will reappear in some shape or form ^^ - Elvin
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 20, 2016 04:07 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 16:12, 20 Dec 2016.
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artu said:
As far as I know, and it's been a while since I read about it, that applies to the sections of law about inheritance, property etc. Not criminal law. If it does, (which would mean independence, not even autonomy), it would be retarted indeed.
And whom of those muslim inhabitants, in those muslim enclaves, is going to inform the British law enforcement if a sharia court is penalizing a muslim for a criminal offense? Especially when the British (or in general, Western) way of life is renounced in favor of the muslim way of life and its corresponding laws? I assume they will avoid giving (and performing) the death penalty or personal harm like chopping off a hand for thievery, but that's nothing more than assumption.
Fact is, by tolerating a secondary system of laws within your boundary, you create enclaves where different rules and regulations are maintained. In the long run, as those enclaves tend to grow - especially since birthrate among muslims in Western countries is higher than the "native" population - you cause fractures and friction within your country, as moral thoughts and standards will start to clash. If it's not held in check (which is extremely tough to begin with), you're setting up for a civil war.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 20, 2016 04:12 PM |
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AlHazin said:
What is laughable, is that in my own country, I'm seen as liberal as westerns are because I'm not OK with such extremists behaviours, and in HC, I'm seen as stubborn as extremists because I'm not OK with the stigmatization done with Islam.
you should pay attention to what you write, because basically the sense I get from is that your whole country is composed of extremists, thus it validates Islam's stigmatization.
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted December 20, 2016 04:30 PM |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 20, 2016 04:44 PM |
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AlHazin, you are aware that those "pagan Arab enemies" from Mecca were the local residents of Mecca, too, who were entitled to live their lives as pagans from an objective point of view, don't you? Nobody has to care that their pagan beliefs are not "real din" according to Islam. By the way, after taking Mecca back, Muhammed executed the leaders of the opposition, he didnt kill anyone else but neither did he had to since he was in charge once he cut the head of the resistance. But that's another age in history and things were done that way, the problem is that life of Muhammed and his battles become canon for people who are religious. I, as an atheist, can use a historical perspective to evaluate what happened and analyze it according to that day's norms, Muslims on the other hand, don't have that luxury, since the prophet's behavior is a universal example to them.
There are more than one meaning to jihad, yes, but one of them is literally war against infidels and that meaning is also Quranic. This is so according to Quran itself, the hadith and the historical events of prophet's life. Basically, when he starts out his religion in Mecca, he doesn't have power so he's modest, he flees to Medine, becomes stronger, returns to Mecca as an invader. Historians point out that his first period in Mecca are when verses such as "there's no forcing in religion" are "revealed" and then when he is in charge, things change. It is, for example, punishable by death to convert from Islam, once you're in. That is from the third period, the return to Mecca. All of this is pretty well documented and for centuries, Muslim scholars didn't even need apologetic defenses for such facts since in Medieval times, they didn't bother anybody.
Now, all of these wont affect a regular Muslim's life living as, say, a baker in Amsterdam or as a desk clerk in Baghdad. Because people's lives are not determined by their theological history. But the theology of Islam ratifies to be on offensive war to spread religion, to deny that would be burying your head under the sand.
Btw, Sal is right, your examples have very off-the charts criteria. If even joining a game forum is seen as unapproved behavior according to the extremists there, not being such an extremist really doesn't mean perfect balance on your side, you are still not objective about the topic.
@Maurice
Your examples are all involving in criminal law and punishment. So, I don't know why is that an answer to my comment.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted December 20, 2016 05:15 PM |
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So, how is this discussion coming along?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted December 20, 2016 05:24 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Unlike you, I document myself because I care about, while you usually let talk only your emotions.
On Europe economical growth (1,5), compare then with USA (2,20), China (6,7), Japan (2,2), India (7,3).
Is not like we lead in anything, we are the last in almost everything, quality of life is going down.
Repeat after me: "correlation does not equal causality"
These numbers don't tell us anything about why these figures are what they are and that is important.
And even if it was due do with immigration, it's important to note that Immigration will always result in economical growth. That's economics 101. It will however take a bit of time. 5-10 years from now it will be very visible as those newly arrived will have had time to adapt, learn languages and get established. but to get there there will of course need to be some investment. Some initial slow-down is to be expected.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 20, 2016 05:58 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
it's important to note that Immigration will always result in economical growth. That's economics 101.
No, and I can find you hundreds of studies saying that is relative and IT depends on a lot of variables. You take as base one individual then clone him, then suppose they will act all same, have same values and goals, same language, history and heroes to mourn, not even speaking about being illegal or not. Or humans can be different and not all individuals are capable of creating equal growth, because if they were, immigration would simply not exist in first place.
kiryu133 said:
It will however take a bit of time. 5-10 years from now it will be very visible as those newly arrived will have had time to adapt, learn languages and get established.
In France, mass immigration started in 1980. 35 years later we have partitioned cities, unrest, increased poverty and economical growth much lower than before. There is a physical law which is never respected, concerning immigration: if you want water to boil, you don't add fresh water every 5 seconds. Thats so simple as that.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 20, 2016 06:18 PM |
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So, you mourn Heroes with the French? I thought Ubisoft was in France.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 20, 2016 06:26 PM |
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I mean is different when you mourn Charlemagne and Jeanne d'Arc or when you mourn Muhammad. And btw, one of my national heroes was Vlad tepes, he was a pain in the ass for the Turks, literally speaking.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 20, 2016 06:32 PM |
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Yeah, it must be pretty different to mourn "Vlad The Impaler." The guy literally made it into fiction as Count Dracula!
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 20, 2016 06:36 PM |
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artu said:
@Maurice
Your examples are all involving in criminal law and punishment. So, I don't know why is that an answer to my comment.
Because you mentioned something about being subject to the British criminal law and punishment. But if no one in those enclaves calls for British law enforcement and instead turn to sharia courts when they catch a muslim criminal, who's going to bring it to the attention of the British law enforcers?
And taking that on a stretch, you end up with a country that's going to tear itself apart.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 20, 2016 06:38 PM |
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artu said:
Yeah, it must be pretty different to mourn "Vlad The Impaler." The guy literally made it into fiction as Count Dracula!
Indeed, is already amazing that with such hero to mourn, I still don't experience any particular anal fetish.
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