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| Thread: Terrorist attack at Berlin |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 19, 2016 11:45 PM |
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Well, I wouldnt use the word "embrace" but the majority of the immigrants adapt enough to the Western culture to live in it peacefully, there had been millions of immigrants from the Middle East through out the whole 20th century, such attacks were not the pattern before the war in the Middle East was what it is today. This had been explained with proper links and statistics documenting the attacks, when they started, how did they try to justify themselves etc, in more than one thread already. I dont understand why it is so easy to ignore that in the 1920's or 1950's, there were again many immigrants from the same countries in Europe or US but not a single person was blowing themselves up.
If a person is marginally and/or politically religious, he or she may indeed have difficulties adapting and if you take in 200.000 marginally religious people at once, the issue will be bigger than their adaptation problems. That's obvious. And that would indeed be a discussion about multi-culturalism the way it is applied in Europe today. But these attacks are not a result of that.
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Salamandre
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posted December 19, 2016 11:46 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
In the big picture, nobody is going to move out of Germany because 9 people died at the hands of a crazy person. If they do, then they have some extremely poor decision-making skills.
Well, this is the main problem. You, and many others, turn it into a moral and empathic endless issue. I also would find very stupid that Germany decides over night to deport random muslims because one went berserk. But what is important is to preserve the constitution, which means apply the law for rejected applications, then use the asylum system for what it was created: politically persecuted people, not anyone suffering from poverty or civil wars because that's not our problem -unless invasions obviously.
To each one to fix his country, everyone who made it had his revolution, his sacrifices, his dead to mourn. The deserters never made the history.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 19, 2016 11:46 PM |
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Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Catholicism and Protestantism.
In the past, people used to live in ghettos over these differences (such as, if you were a protestant in a Catholic nation or a Catholic in a protestant nation). Ideologically, the differences here were minute compared to the differences of Islam and secular Europe, and yet it still created a lot of chaos. Why? Policy. The policy exacerbated the conflict that already existed. It's even sort of true today. The Catholic Church is expanding in traditionally Orthodox countries. Islam is doing likewise, except in both the East and the West. How much of a problem this is going to be, for the most part, is going to be determined by policy. If the policy chooses to demonize a minority, then the minority in turn will become more belligerent. This is why Germany is doing such a good job at handling Islam compared to France or the US. It is very slow to demonize somebody.
Islam (traditional Islam) is not compatible with mainstream W. European values. This is correct. It doesn't need to be. You don't need absolute conformity. You simply need uniformity. For every crazy guy in a lorry, there's another 20,000+ that are living relatively normal lives, with perhaps some petty crime & felonies mixed in the bag, but nothing that is going to drown a nation.
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verriker
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posted December 19, 2016 11:55 PM |
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blizzardbpy said:
Europe just isn't as accustomed to being ****ed up like the rest of the world.
bear in mind you're talking to a couple of Romanians mate the glorious nation on Earth hue hue hue
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted December 20, 2016 12:06 AM |
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And Turkey both looks like Kremlin work.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted December 20, 2016 12:07 AM |
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Edited by EnergyZ at 00:07, 20 Dec 2016.
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Salamandre said:
To each one to fix his country, everyone who made it had his revolution, his sacrifices, his dead to mourn. The deserters never made the history.
What about the Jews, then? A lot of them retreated after WW2. Even today Israel is being torn between them and Palestinians.
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Salamandre
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posted December 20, 2016 12:09 AM |
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blizzardboy said:
For every crazy guy in a lorry, there's another 20,000+ that are living relatively normal lives, with perhaps some petty crime & felonies mixed in the bag, but nothing that is going to drown a nation.
meh, this is simply being ignorant about official data and spreading propaganda. In France, recent surveys show 30% of muslims are radical, support jihad and consider sharia being superior to France laws. So about 3 millions muslims would put every gay arse on a pike if they were at command, I am not sure some of you would enjoy, right?
Worlwide the surveys show this data at 15-25%, which means nonetheless several hundred millions. The problem with you guys, is that you talk about how you would like the world look, so is worthless discuss diagnostics.
verriker said:
bear in mind you're talking to a couple of Romanians mate the glorious nation on Earth hue hue hue
For sure we weren't glorious, were often invaded by Romans, then Turks -neighborhood not friendly, but also we created our revolution, killed the dictator and got our freedom from communism, by our own hands. Not many countries in the world did that, so thanks for noticing our, if not greatness, at least determination.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 20, 2016 12:19 AM |
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Salamandre said:
blizzardboy said:
For every crazy guy in a lorry, there's another 20,000+ that are living relatively normal lives, with perhaps some petty crime & felonies mixed in the bag, but nothing that is going to drown a nation.
meh, this is simply being ignorant about official data and spreading propaganda. In France, recent surveys show 30% of muslims are radical, support jihad and consider sharia being superior to France laws. So about 3 millions muslims would put every gay arse on a pike if they were at command, I am not sure some of you would enjoy, right?
Worlwide the surveys show this data at 15-25%, which means nonetheless several hundred millions. The problem with you guys, is that you talk about how you would like the world look, so is worthless discuss diagnostics.
I think the data is fairly similar to in the US. And yet, as far as crime goes, Muslims are better than the black & hispanic community when it comes to violent crime. They're actually pretty tame, although the Muslims here are demographically different from the Muslims living in France.
Here's the thing boss:
If you poll people's opinions, and were to get fairly accurate data, you would discover that a large percentage of the world endorses some pretty ****ed up things. We're a pretty savage species, and we like savage things.
What matters the most is what a person is willing to do. Not what they fantasize about. There's millions of people out there that, given the chance, would do what Hitler did, but they're faceless nobodies that work at gas stations, hotels, shopping centers, etc.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 20, 2016 12:20 AM |
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Edited by artu at 00:25, 20 Dec 2016.
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Yes, and when you ask Elodin had the state executed doctors performing abortion, would he support it, he answers that would be perfectly okay. I'd be hardly surprised if he represents a 15-20 percent of Bible Belt Texan mentality. Significantly religious people speak like that all the time, especially when they are asked direct questions. They can not conflict the dogma in their head argumantetively. Only a few people put such things in action though, it takes more than to reply to pools and having a wrong mentality to actually kill people.
Edit: I see blizz beat me to it.
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verriker
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posted December 20, 2016 12:25 AM |
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Salamandre said:
For sure we weren't glorious, were often invaded by Romans, then Turks -neighborhood not friendly, but also we created our revolution, killed the dictator and got our freedom from communism, by our own hands. Not many countries in the world did that, so thanks for noticing our, if not greatness, at least determination.
anytime lol
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Salamandre
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posted December 20, 2016 12:34 AM |
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artu said:
Yes, and when you ask Elodin had the state executed doctors performing abortion, would he support it, he answers that would be perfectly okay. I'd be hardly surprised if he represents a 15-20 percent of Bible Belt Texan mentality. Significantly religious people speak like that all the time, especially when they are asked direct questions. They can not conflict the dogma in their head argumantetively. Only a few people put such things in action though, it takes more than to reply to pools and having a wrong mentality to actually kill people.
I don't see any conflict there, it suffices to put Elodin's in Trumps place and tomorrow you will have doctors being executed, accordingly to his convictions. USA already applies death penalty for atrocious crimes and killing a baby -accordingly to christian perspective- could be considered as atrocious.
I mean, what you doubt there, that muslims supporting sharia would not apply it if in commands? They DO IT ALREADY, in every country they rule.
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 20, 2016 01:22 AM |
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First of all, no, my country for example, is Muslim by majority, Islamists are in power for 15 years, there are a lot of problems but we dont have Sharia law or gay heads on spikes. They are not as comfortable as they are in France for sure, but they can have their parades, there are openly gay public figures (not politicians though, mostly artists or fashion sector etc.)... Even if you consider Turkey an exception because of imperial history and relationships with Europe, not all Islamic theocracies are Salafi Saudi Arabia, there are degrees to their strictness, which is enough evidence for cultural factors determining as much as Quranic verse (which btw, doesnt punish gays with death but I guess, that was just an example, some theocracies do indeed).
Secondly, are you sugessting because of multi-culturalism Muslims will take control over Europe and rule by Sharia law? Because that's even more far-fetched from suicide attacks by fanatics?
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Stevie
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posted December 20, 2016 01:36 AM |
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German news and social media report that the suspect is Afghan or Pakistani. It should come as no surprise if the police confirm the guy as being a radical muslim immigrant.
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Maurice
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posted December 20, 2016 01:39 AM |
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Edited by Maurice at 01:39, 20 Dec 2016.
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artu said:
Secondly, are you sugessting because of multi-culturalism Muslims will take control over Europe and rule by Sharia law? Because that's even more far-fetched from suicide attacks by fanatics?
That depends. There are cities and suburbs in Great Britain, where large concentrations of muslims live together, where sharia courts are condoned and accepted by British law enforcers. Yes, the British allow sharia in those areas to surpass the British law itself. Completely retarded, if you'd ask me.
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 20, 2016 01:56 AM |
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As far as I know, and it's been a while since I read about it, that applies to the sections of law about inheritance, property etc. Not criminal law. If it does, (which would mean independence, not even autonomy), it would be retarted indeed.
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fred79
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posted December 20, 2016 02:07 AM |
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i love how it's always about race/terrorism/etc. never about capitalism. didn't the guy plow into shoppers? maybe he was sick of the capitalism that christmas represents.
or maybe he just saw a bunch of people and the little voice in his head said, "snow it, run 'em over", and he obeyed; whereas, if WE were to listen to that destructive voice, we would just be like, "yeahhhhh, no".
really, there are a myriad of reasons to do such a thing. maybe his girlfriend had just left him. maybe he didn't get that promotion. maybe he would never be accepted by his parents because he was gay. maybe he thought the crowd was overly gay, and he was a homicidal homophobe.
or maybe a possessed dog named sam told him to do it. or satan. or the that little kid down the street, who had just found 4chan and was trying to be edgy by telling everyone to go kill themselves. or maybe the guy himself had just found 4chan, and had lost all hope in humanity while at the same time, finding an ever-increasing fury at the stupidity of mankind.
or maybe somebody snowed up his ice cream sundae order. you never know.
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Stevie
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posted December 20, 2016 03:23 AM |
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Blizzardboy
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posted December 20, 2016 03:27 AM |
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Well, looks like Turkish-Russian relations have just reached subzero temperatures.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 20, 2016 03:49 AM |
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Actually, both Erdogan and Putin made statements saying this was an attempt to sabotage the relatitions going back to normal, indicating they wont take the bait, Erdogan said they spoke on the phone, that Putin wants Russian agents also involved in the investigation and he had no objections whatsoever to such a request.
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Stevie
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posted December 20, 2016 03:50 AM |
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Berliner said:
According to the findings of the security authorities, the arrested suspected driver was probably sent to Germany as a refugee in February. Lastly, there was no certainty as the man had used different names and thus his identity could not be clarified, the Deutsche Presse-Agentur learned early in the morning from security crises. There is much evidence that the man - an Afghan - was registered as a refugee when he entered Germany.
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