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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Terrorist attack at Berlin
Thread: Terrorist attack at Berlin This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 20, 2016 06:45 PM
Edited by artu at 18:46, 20 Dec 2016.

@Maurice

That's really bit of a stretch. I dont support Sharia in any sanction of the law but if the criminal law stays intact and universal, and applies to every citizen, they might also end up like the Mormons in the U.S. That doesn't cause a civil war, does it?

Keep in mind, I support controlled immigration that is capable of assimilation about basic values, not cultural ghettos. My reply was about Muslims ending up forcing Sharia law in Europe, I don't see that happening except with maybe some countries allowing custom laws on things like inheritance laws etc. to Muslim minorities under very specific conditions and only if those conditions do not violate individual rights. You shouldn't be able to discriminate women because you are a Muslim for example.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 21, 2016 01:01 AM
Edited by Corribus at 01:04, 21 Dec 2016.

Thread reopened.

First, I had to edit one of JJ's posts - let's please at least pretend to adhere to the CoC language policy, shall we?

Second, I penalized Salamandre for clearly breaking the rules regarding insulting people of a certain sexual orientation.

Third, I issued artu a penalty for clearly breaking the rules regarding insulting people of a certain religion.

This kind of inflammatory posting will absolutely not be tolerated at Heroes Community. I have no problem closing the thread permanently and issuing (very long) silences to people who persist in breaking the Code of Conduct, which I will remind you can be conveniently be found by clicking on the "FAQ/Rules" link at the top of the page.

If I have to close the thread again for cleaning, it will not be reopened.
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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted December 21, 2016 04:47 AM

People need boogeymen.  They need somebody to blame for all the problems of the world.  I mean... can't be THEM.. must be the 'foreigners'.  People different for themselves.  The top 1% get richer, everybody else gets poorer.. and they want to distract from that fact.. so give the people somebody to hate.

Jobs are becoming obsolete, and eventually so will money.  Automation is advancing so fast that why pay wages when you can buy something, it works 24/7 without need for rest, wages, etc.  Sure a few people will be needed to upkeep them.. but not many.  There is over 7billion people on the planet.. resources are being consumed at an insane rate.. and the population grows and grows exponentially.  People are living longer because of medicine, so fewer people die.. but people keep populating as if this is not the case.

Listen, things have to advance.. we have to become more efficient with the resources.  We have to start working on teraforming technology and expand.. or SOMETHING.. there are no easy fixes or answers.  We are stuck with the "Anybody but us are evil" mentality, because we need our boogeymen for SOMETHING to blame.. but it is that attitude which fosters extremist.. and that causes unrest, and that leads to needless destruction, loss of life, and gives the 'elite' people to distract the masses with.  Teach our kids a better way.  Foster the "We are not so different on the inside" mentality.  EVOLVE.  Stop letting people, even me, give you boogeymen.  Work to make the world better, not just hate people because they are different then you.  Don't let them distract you from the real problems of the world.  No arena fights with lions, gladiators, etc while people starve, get persecuted, and resources bleed like a gaping wound.  A legitimate braintrust needs to be set up, from all walks of life, to figure out how to adapt to this..how to grow.. how to evolve.

Money needs to be made obsolete, and we need to get what we need while working together to make the world better.  If money becomes obsolete, the elite lose their power.  A great deal of companies, worldwide, can be traced back to 6 major companies now.. so it is probably already too late..

Besides .. it is too 'hard', easier to blame the elite, or technology, or immigrants.. or watch those Arena matches.  So.. go back to your petty squabbling, let the distractions take you away.. and watch as things get worse and worse and worse.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 21, 2016 08:30 AM

My fault, I should have checked for that term. I see it so much used so I was sure it means simply "stupid". Slang is fun but also a trap.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 21, 2016 08:37 AM

Quote:
Third, I issued artu a penalty for clearly breaking the rules regarding insulting people of a certain religion.


1- Beyond any reasonable doubt, saying "Islam sucks and cant be called a peace of religion" is not insulting the people of a certain religion. It is an opinion regarding the religion itself. This is much more obvious considering the context that I am objecting to a generalization regarding Muslims and that I, myself, am ethnically from Muslim origins and have religious family members.

2- Regarding Islam OR Muslims or other religions, so much worse than "it sucks" had been said in so many threads by so many people, it is clearly a double standard to give penalties over such an expression which is neither a curse word nor a racial slur.

@AlHazin

Quote:
This, I'll admit it is somewhat misguiding. So I'll precise that this is not an "Islamic" quote, as this comes directly from what the algerian pirates used to put on their flags, when they wrecked european ships, which is, again, in contradiction with Islam.

I knew I remember that expression from somewhere the minute I read it, it might as well be on the flags of Algerian pirates but that was obviously not why it sounded familiar to me, it's also (part of a) hadith, it was said by Muhammed during a military expedition: Link
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted December 21, 2016 09:04 AM

What the HC forums need is a FFA section for any topic without any rules or limits to insults, harassment etc.

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted December 21, 2016 09:08 AM

Well artu, it's not about joining HC, but rather about when I make this same speech I have with you to them, that they consider I'm not enough a muslim. In fact, they see Islam the way you do, and therefore think they have to go to war with the whole infidel world, forgetting the very basis of Islam. I'm not actually saying I'm in balance or anything, it's not about it anyways, it's not like I'm a bit muslim and a bit westernish, a bit by their side and a bit by yours, I'm 100% muslim, so the duality doesn't apply there. The situation from my point of view, is that there is the right and the wrong. It's that simple. Seeing Islam as a warring ideology made for war, relying on the dictatureship of everybodies' lives ain't the right way to go. As I don't even claim to hold the truth, for me it's just that this way of seeing it is wrong. It's about that, faith is all about the research of THE truth, the universal one, above all our points of view.

The extremists basically see that we should go to war with the infidels, convert them all, make them pay for (hypotetic?) crimes, and kill some of them maybe too, as if I had no better to do. Sadly but truely, some think it that way. That of course doesn't mean we're all doing.

I'm not the only one think the way I do, we might be more or less compared to extremists, but that's because humans choose the easy way rather than the right one, it's easy to be stubborn, yet difficult to listen to people and discuss with them thier points of view.

Also, I don't deny the fact that misinterpretation of Islam was applied to serve much more pragmatic puposes, using offensive behaviours towards non muslims, and somtimes muslims too. What I deny, is that Islam at its core, says so, cause it doesn't. And even if it were to be the case, I'll let you know that I don't see it this way because the prophete (SAAWS) said that "the believer is docile like the camel" hence not harsh as you might think. Even being grumpy is Makrūh in Islam (to be avoided).

About Djihad, it's not about apologic defenses or anything of the kind mate. Because what we forget generally, in Islam like in anything else, is the human factor. A term you surely heard about, Al Idjtihād, which basically means using your own brain, and common sense to differenciate what is meant to be done from what is not. When the Caliph Omar Ibn Al Khattāb had to judge two young boys (IIRC) that stole food from the market, he forgave them, although he had normally to apply the punishement which is a proper hand cut, because it was a period of drought, and people were starving. That element is often if not always put away from the religion. And when the prophete (SAAWS) marched to Mekka, like I stated in my previous post, it was because muslims in Mekka were persecuted, otherwise, he would've told them already what I told you : Lā ikrāha fi 'ddīni (no forcing in religion) and Lakom dīnokom wa liya dīnee (to you your religion and to me mine).

But anyways, what I meant in the first place, my principle point, is that such a useless quote that you said, is not something I could wait from you, since you're an intellectual, who is well positioned to know about Islam, and studied it among other things, you worth better than that as a person since you've used me to way better.

yogi said:
really glad to have you as part of the community AlHazin


As I am glad of being a part of it, it's indeed a great community. You're welcome to my new home too.



Anyways, mind you that the only true enemy is Ubisoft, fans of Heroes of all nations, unite.

EDIT : for the signature, yeah it's a warring one, yet it has been used to boost troops morale as stated, as it has been also said : Paradise is under the feet of mothers. So it's not enough to classify Islam as offensive, since there are more quotes about peace thant there are about war.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 21, 2016 09:40 AM

It is not a misinterpretation to say that Islam is not a religion of peace, which does not necessarily mean that war is ALL that Islam is about. But war is a legit instrument in Islam to spread the faith. If this is a misinterpretation, then the prophet of Islam also misinterpreted his own religion. A religion of peace would be one that forbids war (such as the Quakers I already mentioned) and one that spreads through discourse only. Islam was not like that, as I said, with a historical perspective, I don't find that odd, since you cant expect tribes of 7th century to have identical norms to yours. The problem with religion is that it inevitably tries to by-pass such historicity because it has the claim of universality, which it obviously wont be able to fulfill. Almost everything in Quran (or other religious texts) is very cultural and a product of normative values of a certain age.

You can cherry-pick verses from the Quran or Hadith that may support warmongering or peaceful solution, depending on your agenda. That's not what I do, when you look at Quran as a whole and the historical events involving its birth, it would be an overwhelmingly far-fetched interpretation to signify it as a religion categorically against war.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted December 21, 2016 09:54 AM
Edited by Ebonheart at 09:58, 21 Dec 2016.

Pardon me for asking Artu, but just like how Sal once asked me how I could stand all newcomers to H3 and their endless faulty claims and nooby questions, I ask you, how come you can stand to argue about that religion these days?

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 21, 2016 09:57 AM

It's a social reality involving my life and it's on the table.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted December 21, 2016 09:59 AM

On the table you say, in what manner?

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 21, 2016 10:01 AM

There exists a thread with comments about it.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 21, 2016 10:02 AM

The whole discussion is nonsensical, and you should also know that very well.

Salamandre is an immigrant himself, so he can't be against immigration as such. It is fairly obvious, that any problem with immigration - independently from the numbers that immigrate - comes from the fact that the immigration country must TEACH and EDUCATE immigrants in order to help them find their feet, but doesn't do that, at least not in the way that would be necessary.

Reason and esperience teach that immigrants left to their own will turn to people who know their own language, giving THEM a lot of power to influence them and tell them all kind of crap.

THis WILL (and has) le(a)d to problems, since this will automatically lead to a certain percentage of immigrants being stuck in half-legal or completely illegal dealings, while others will end with social servives and live in "slums".

That has been the immigration problem and is still the problem.

Now, TERRORIST attacks, however, have nothing to do with that. The internet has a lot more to do with it. For example, those suicide-helper sites. Thanks to the internet, if you are an unhappy teenager suffering from hormone overdose divorced parents, no friends and whatnot - they can get easy advice on how to take their life, usually quietly and painless, but apart from those who are maybe getting off on the idea of others offing them, there are also those who ARE leading a (covert) war, and for them the internet is a very cheap way to try and influence others, who may not only be infinitely sad, but also enraged about their own situation. That's also nothing new - just think of school shootings - same corner. You don't need a religion to start to kill people and eventually take the suicide road.

Also, you don't need to be creative, the media are. Plowing with a car through a group of people - that's what you can read with Stephen King, for example.

Religion? Just a word in that regard. You can take any other "value" from the past, race, nation, "virility", virtue, whatever, and start ramblings with how things are in decline and how, godless, fatherlandless, honorless, bloodless, clueless, pitiless, ruthless people who live empty lives and care only about material wealth are ruining everything, and it won't take long until you find some angst-ridden, lonely people who will dance to that tune.
No rocket science.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted December 21, 2016 10:03 AM

artu said:
There exists a thread with comments about it.

Meh then I cba. But anyways, my patience for this matter of said religion. I reply in the same manner it greets me. Period.
Ima sneak off to a H3 thread.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted December 21, 2016 10:12 AM

JollyJoker said:
The whole discussion is nonsensical, and you should also know that very well.
Salamandre is an immigrant himself, so he can't be against immigration as such.
And donkeys can fly. Srsly Jolly what are you smoking? Ps: There is a difference between immigrants ya know.
JollyJoker said:
It is fairly obvious, that any problem with immigration - independently from the numbers that immigrate - comes from the fact that the immigration country must TEACH and EDUCATE immigrants in order to help them find their feet, but doesn't do that, at least not in the way that would be necessary.

Here's a wild thought: YOU TEACH THEM!
JollyJoker said:
Reason and esperience teach that immigrants left to their own will turn to people who know their own language, giving THEM a lot of power to influence them and tell them all kind of crap.
I am certain they would listen to people they have deemed traitors. Makes sense, I am sure we would aswell.
JollyJoker said:
Now, TERRORIST attacks, however, have nothing to do with that.
I call BS. We did not have these kinds of attacks before this started.
JollyJoker said:
You don't need a religion to start to kill people and eventually take the suicide road.
What is your freaking point here? Do you honestly believe us to be so dull we can't understand violence is not always tied to religion? You're really a couple of quartz low today Jolly.
JollyJoker said:
Also, you don't need to be creative, the media are. Plowing with a car through a group of people - that's what you can read with Stephen King, for example.
Correction, you don't need to be manipulative, the media are.
JollyJoker said:
No rocket science.
Id say it is minding how you reason.
Beckomberga, now that would be one swell place for you.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 21, 2016 10:16 AM

@JJ

Yes, JJ, as I mentioned myself already, the issues involving "multiculturalism" itself have not prior causality on such attacks, although, in your angsty teen scenario, culture shock can play a significant role. But every time someone drives a truck into a crowd or blow themselves or whatever, the issue of Islam also comes up, since the attackers openly claim they are doing what they are doing in the name of it. While I think Huntington's book of "Clash of Civilizations" is a misdirecting analysis of what is caused by "neo-liberal" global policies, I don't completely disregard the thesis, since a lot of people are motivated by such a rhetoric on an individual level. It's not the actual story, but it's not a completely made up story either.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 21, 2016 10:22 AM

JollyJoker said:
The whole discussion is nonsensical


And your comments have been as effective as the german police in this case.

JollyJoker said:
Salamandre is an immigrant himself, so he can't be against immigration as such.


The whole discussion is about mass and uncontrolled immigration. Yet you come with this nonsensical label where someone who eat meat can't be against meat. Crude and unprepared meat will turn you sick, does that makes sense to you?

JollyJoker said:
It is fairly obvious, that any problem with immigration - independently from the numbers that immigrate - comes from the fact that the immigration country must TEACH and EDUCATE immigrants in order to help them find their feet


This is an opinion and not a fact. You are clueless and very biased on immigration resorts, as people can also prepare their immigration, like me for example. years of hard working and language learning so I could get a job as soon as I entered, therefore not annoy the locals by being a parasite. You prefer parasites, not me, I have a higher opinion about wealth share between countries. Immigration is wealth share, not free assistance, sooner you understand that concept, sooner social stability will be reached, everywhere.

JollyJoker said:
Reason and esperience teach that immigrants left to their own will turn to people who know their own language, giving THEM a lot of power to influence them and tell them all kind of crap.


I am the example that this is not true. Yet you continue to consider me as a failed immigrant. Cognitive dissonance.

JollyJoker said:
Now, TERRORIST attacks, however, have nothing to do with that.


Sure, it has all to do with you importing terrorists. I know you Germans have a suicidal immigration attitude, due to the fact that you feel morally undermined by your past. This is not news, we can observe Merkel being offended by german flag, interdiction for schools and other official buildings to show the german flag, constant present of compulsive remorse in official speeches, I get it and I even can understand it, to a certain point.

However this is not other people's case, and fortunately. 95% of the so called refugees are economical migrants, then among them there is a minority of jihadists. When a leader takes his functions, he swears to protect HIS people, not people of the earth. When Merkel let enter in your country jihadists, she betrayed her people, she has blood on her hands, as well as those supporting her. You imported this people, and this is the only reason of the terror attacks.

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted December 21, 2016 10:45 AM

The mere fact that I'm a muslim, and a peaceful dude is a good proof for you of my claims. As I said I'm taking Islam 100%, not as if I were rejecting a warring side of side it, that, in my opinion, doesn't exist.

Now if some members are getting upset about my thoughts, unsatisfied of the version I give about it, I could of course gladly leave the OSM for them so they may state at will all the claims they want. Just who could they be, and what could they know about my religion to certify what I'm saying is wrong, yet my way of dealing with such people, here like in real life, in the HH way. If when a muslim, gives a peaceful way of interpretation of Islam, is said to be wrong, he could of course go stick with the extremists since it looks like a invitation to do so.

Cheers. Have fun saying what you want without opposition. And this is not adressed to you artu.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 21, 2016 11:03 AM

Stick around AlHazin, you're a good poster, no need to be so dramatic about difference of opinion.
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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted December 21, 2016 11:11 AM

AlHazin said:
The mere fact that I'm a muslim, and a peaceful dude is a good proof for you of my claims. As I said I'm taking Islam 100%, not as if I were rejecting a warring side of side it, that, in my opinion, doesn't exist.

Now if some members are getting upset about my thoughts, unsatisfied of the version I give about it, I could of course gladly leave the OSM for them so they may state at will all the claims they want. Just who could they be, and what could they know about my religion to certify what I'm saying is wrong, yet my way of dealing with such people, here like in real life, in the HH way. If when a muslim, gives a peaceful way of interpretation of Islam, is said to be wrong, he could of course go stick with the extremists since it looks like a invitation to do so.

Cheers. Have fun saying what you want without opposition. And this is not adressed to you artu.

You forgot the part where you muslims see us as dogs and shall lie to us. Thus you have no proof at all and you never will have in terms of an argument, because we will never be able to take your word.

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