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| Thread: Terrorist attack at Berlin |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 21, 2016 04:00 PM |
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Sal, I get your stance but sometimes you are so overzealous about it, you speak like a father educated in a military school, replying to his son's complaints about collage by saying "we used to get up at five o'clock every morning and make our own bed, you sissy."
Just think how you reacted to a poll because Romania had distasteful results, then compare it to what immigrants from Muslim countries go through, try to understand the difficulties of integration with such background prejudice. Integration is a two way-street and while I agree Muslims are quite involuntary or even incapable sometimes, the other end of the equation is not as perfect as you suppose, either. Anybody would integrate much easier if their next door neighbor was JJ and not you.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 21, 2016 04:04 PM |
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i like that you guys are working harder to make your points and not let anger flavor your words. much more persuasive that way. 
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 21, 2016 04:06 PM |
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Thanks, Yoda. We're all looking up to you about that. 
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 21, 2016 04:15 PM |
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artu said:
Anybody would integrate much easier if their next door neighbor was JJ and not you.
heh, this is what JJ lets you think. Don't forget that JJ's 8/10 of posts in HC consist in claiming the previous poster told bollocks, indeed a very optimal way of creating positive social interaction. ^^
You just don't have the first hand experience I have in RL with people advocating tolerance, open borders and generoooooosity. They are the most sectarian, often the most violent and also the most tyrannical and hostile to different ideas. I don't fail to their circus anymore.
And of course, I bow in front of those really helping refugees, the people going in their camps, feeding them, giving them language lessons, taking care about their administrative problems, all those admirable persons who do that for free, because they really believe in an united world. They are rare and they are everyone's heros. Not a single one in HC, so all is demagogy.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 21, 2016 04:30 PM |
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So, it is the farce that you object to, not the idea?
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 21, 2016 04:42 PM |
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For one who lived in 4 different countries, I am not the best example of hating an open world. But if we believe such thing is possible, then we all will have to give up on our personal dreams, goals and careers then use all our time, both free and not free to ensure open borders doesn't mean certain death. Because out there, there are hundreds of millions ready to come.
Personally I am not ready for that and I tell it. Then from those loudly advocating it, I see not a single one moving a finger, so why would I let them convince me?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 21, 2016 05:00 PM |
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Ok, but when somebody does some suicide attack, how does the discussion always shift into "utopian open borders versus incompatible neanderthals." Such attacks are not, at core, cultural. Culture is not an absolutely ineffective agent but in the end, what pulls the trigger is political conflict by pattern. But this always seems to fly by because the manifestation of the attacker is cultural. You don't have to feed the poor in refugee camps or whatever, but not taking such a bait would be quite an effortless choice on your part.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 21, 2016 05:07 PM |
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Because this is the main discussion. If you allow NOW everyone who says is a refugee, then tomorrow you have no law base to refuse the next 250 millions. Look at current situation in Germany. Police catch a Pakistan "refugee". Now they say they catch a Tunisian "refugee".
Now please enlighten me how in the hell a Pakistani and a Tunisian can enter EU as "refugees"?
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 21, 2016 05:15 PM |
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Salamandre said:
One time you say that we must help immigrants to become part of the country but then when they do, you also claim that they don't have the right of having opinions about this or that, because, oh well ... they were immigrants. Congrats guys.
Well some time ago one of my friends asked for extremely strict demands for entering our country, but the ironic thing is that his own family would not have been allowed access to the country he thrives in today if those limits had been imposed back when they moved here.
Personally I am of the opinion that the problem isn't the wrong type of people coming here, it is that we deal very badly with all the people who come here.
Let's take the refugees as an example despite them not being the topic here, to my knowledge most of them still lives in camps with tents despite having been in this country for quite some time.
A better example is perhaps many of our east block workers who come here to work temporarily, I am not surprised they do not speak our language, but sadly they often don't speak English either, meaning an interpreter is often required, and I know it may sound absurd that many don't speak English, but that is my experience.
Btw. did I misrepresent your opinion on the matter just before?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 21, 2016 05:22 PM |
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My opinion doesn't matter, I only advocate to respect the laws. And if the laws don't fit to a new situation, make a referendum and try to change them after the people voted. What we assist today is a total circus where constitutions and laws are no longer respected while everyone has, naturally, an opinion about. Asylum means one thing, apply it. War means one thing, go, fight and win it. Borders means one thing, they are there to protect people, don't come with filthy claims that there is no need.
Take the Tunisian suspected of this terror attack. This guy asked for asylum in April. They refused asylum in June. We are in December and he is/was still in Germany. Also in June they started a survey on him because he was suspected of ... terrorist ties. We are in December and he is still in Germany. Sorry I repeat myself, but maybe is because I have a hard time to believe what I write. And all this data is available now, just google.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 21, 2016 05:39 PM |
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Ever heard of ILLEGAL immigrants?
How can people respect laws, when they don't KNOW them? That's why I say, if you want people to assimilate, adapt and blend in, you have to teach them WHAT IT IS, they have to adapt to.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 21, 2016 05:41 PM |
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Edited by artu at 17:41, 21 Dec 2016.
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Salamandre said:
Because this is the main discussion. If you allow NOW everyone who says is a refugee, then tomorrow you have no law base to refuse the next 250 millions. Look at current situation in Germany. Police catch a Pakistan "refugee". Now they say they catch a Tunisian "refugee".
Now please enlighten me how in the hell a Pakistani and a Tunisian can enter EU as "refugees"?
The attacker can be 3rd generation immigrant or even a person who is European by ancestory but someone who went radical after feeling estranged. I'm not talking about extremely hypothetical assumptions here. It is so, in many cases. We must distinguish here:
Do object to mass immigration, perfectly reasonable.
Don't assume such attacks are caused by mass immigration, even if a significant (but not overwhelmingly significant) portion of the attackers are immigrants.
As long as this conflict in Syria, Iraq goes on, such things will happen every once in a while, because the cat is out of the bag, this is a new "norm" of attacking an enemy. In the 1980's, PKK was fighting the Turkish military in the mountains with guerillas holding AK47's, now, it is a truck exploding next to a stadium right after a football game. The age of mass media created a new form of "combat." It's not chivalric at all, the technological asymmetry between any state military and "rebels" is so enormous, that counts as what is feasible.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 21, 2016 06:17 PM |
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I think all of this crap was done behind a very sinister motive. From this Christian, I doubt in most cases this is about Islam. It is Political-intrigue.
A brief possibility?
Let's pretend that two young men named Artu & JJ (best friends) live in a small town in the M.E. that sits next to an Oil-field or a Gold-Mine or Poppy-field. They are both 14 and then for the next four years they see incredible flying machines (live) zooming overhead, or hear of strange-craft killing people and together they witness the destruction of nearby cities. There is no work anywhere, there is only chaos, because food is scarce and clean water short. Over this time they had dear ones killed "by accident" and see their "modest civilization" torn-apart.
These two are then told that their Atheism has the answer, eliminate all believers. They are told all in the West are believers and have to be eliminated. However, words will not suffice. Something more important must happen...they are given dream-weapons and trained. Now they CAN take revenge. However, and in the end, it is not the tenets about whatever they believe but it IS all about WAR.
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I see a possible plan...at work.
1. Illegal wars throughout the M.E.?
2. Millions trekking through the newer non-borders?
3. The people who pay the taxes have no voice about all this and the muckety-mucks do as they please?
4. Then finding "Transitional" Care for these people nearly-non-existent? However, on to #5!
5. Free-everything! New stuff? Primarily - New PCs to keep focused on the people and land they left? Integration my patutty.
6. Police handcuffed - Free-speech muted?
7. And finally; whatever number of people that "may" have actually wanted to work for a new life, are finding nothing is new in this land of milk&honey or more promising than the warring regions from where they came and there is actually no hope for their future.
Folks "All this has been Forced." But of course anything said against "States" is conspiracy.
That is NOT immigration. This is playing with peoples lives as if they were only a deck of cards or pawns on a chessboard.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 21, 2016 06:33 PM |
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artu said:
Thanks, Yoda. We're all looking up to you about that.
problem not, jedi. 
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted December 21, 2016 06:49 PM |
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Edited by yogi at 18:56, 21 Dec 2016.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 21, 2016 07:16 PM |
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Where are the Yoga Mistresses?
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted December 21, 2016 07:23 PM |
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Edited by yogi at 19:28, 21 Dec 2016.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 21, 2016 08:41 PM |
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Wut? 
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted December 21, 2016 08:52 PM |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 21, 2016 09:04 PM |
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Dylan shouldn't have popularized wearing sun-glasses indoors.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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