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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This thread is 16 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 · «PREV / NEXT»
Ericoz
Ericoz


Adventuring Hero
posted August 01, 2017 08:34 PM

Yea, their native terrain being swamp is just the icing on the cake. It was an advantage for fortress for a good reason now cove gets a free pass on it. I guess at this point everyone thinks I'm annoying for screaming "balance!" nonstop. But like I said before none of this new content (new town, new units, new objects...) really matters when the real problem stands on lack of balance between heroes, spells and secondary skills.

The fact that they cared to change necromancy/scouting/fire bird growth AND nerf but left unplayable stuff like learning/first aid/eagle eye untouched, learning being the most obvious worst SS of the game according to pretty much 100% of the community and anyone that can do simple math. Doesn't make sense to me, it's like a job half done.

I love the bug fixes they've made, And the balance changes they did so far too.  but would heartily trade all the new content for more balance.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 01, 2017 08:44 PM

I agree about balance issues relating to Cove.
OP starting armies, heroes and units and the best war machine, one hero even gets a cannon for free. (5k down the pocket)
I have done a lot of balance changes regarding spells, skills, starting armies and other stuff myself, but almost everything that relates to Cove I can't change and I have to accept what is given.
Don't get me wrong, Cove is awesome, ironically perhaps a bit too awesome...
As Paradoxon said, Crew Mates goes down from 24 -> 22 in the next update and Nixes lose some of their damage resistance, but Sea Dogs and Haspids are still insane.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 02, 2017 10:56 AM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 16:54, 02 Aug 2017.

I think some of the "unbalanced stuff" hasn't changed for some nostalgic reasons. In HoMM2 skills like Learning, Eagle Eye, Estates, Leadership, Luck and Mysticism are a 1:1 copy, same counts for Archery. I would have loved they also would have left the mass spells the same way as they were.

Edit: I really would like MUCH more treasure Artifacts...

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes2/spellartifacts.shtml

I like these small buffs like half spellpoint use e.g.

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes2/adventureartifacts.shtml

I would like more versions of boots... boots of speed are nice but could use a treasure and a major version too imho.

Nomad Boots (+300 points)
Boots of Speed (+600 acutally)
Travellers Boots (+800 points)

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes2/moraleartifacts.shtml

I would like all of these Items, just to have more variation for seer huts.

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes2/attackartifacts.shtml

Even as trash... it hast it's use for seer. Very interesting the -50% elemental spelldamage.

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes2/spellpowerartifacts.shtml

Items like white and black pearl aren't  that often ingame yet.

Minor artifacts are much rarer than major ones... This needs a change too imho. Mystic Orb of Mana -> should be on Minor (+3 is at least something)

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OrrinIsTheBest
OrrinIsTheBest

Tavern Dweller
posted August 04, 2017 06:04 PM

The most disappointing part of this is that Archangels are no longer the strongest tier 7 units when it comes to 1v1 ( well Ancient Behemothes later in the game and Archdevils in lava can beat them too but that doesn't count). Show some respect to my childhood's favorite creature,please !

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 04, 2017 09:25 PM

OrrinIsTheBest said:
The most disappointing part of this is that Archangels are no longer the strongest tier 7 units when it comes to 1v1 ( well Ancient Behemothes later in the game and Archdevils in lava can beat them too but that doesn't count). Show some respect to my childhood's favorite creature,please !


? oO That post is for real?

http://tartarus.rpgclassics.com/hmm2/spells.php

Some interesting addings are here... from heroes2

Death Wave - Damages all linving(non-undead) units in battle. This is an improved version of Death Ripple

Elemental Storm - Magic elements rain down upon the battle field, damaging all creatures.

View Artifacts - Causes all artifacts across the land to be visible. (not only an icon but the real ingame icon, what artifact is where)

Steelskin - Increases the defense skill of a target. This is the improved form of Stoneskin.

Haunt - Haunts a mine you control with ghosts. The mine will stop producing. (could imagine its nasty in multiplayer )

Fireblast - An improved version of fireball. Fireblast affects the two hexes around the centerpoint of the spell, rather than one.

In general I would like a split between mass and single skills, furthermore more Spells in the whole game would be awesome tbh! Some weak, some strong, some similar mechanics to others but exclusively available for some towns.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 04, 2017 11:44 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:50, 04 Aug 2017.

P4R4D0X0N said:


Death Wave - Damages all linving(non-undead) units in battle. This is an improved version of Death Ripple

Elemental Storm - Magic elements rain down upon the battle field, damaging all creatures.

View Artifacts - Causes all artifacts across the land to be visible. (not only an icon but the real ingame icon, what artifact is where)

Steelskin - Increases the defense skill of a target. This is the improved form of Stoneskin.

Haunt - Haunts a mine you control with ghosts. The mine will stop producing. (could imagine its nasty in multiplayer )

Fireblast - An improved version of fireball. Fireblast affects the two hexes around the centerpoint of the spell, rather than one.


Death Wave - Sure a better version of Death Ripple would be welcome.

Elemental Storm - How does this work? Does it belong to all magic schools like Magic Arrow? Guess it could be interesting.

View Artifacts - Sounds a bit OP to me, especially as a level 2 spell.

Steelskin - Hmm Expert Stone Skin is already pretty great, is'nt it?

Haunt - There are no Ghosts in Heroes 3, so I guess it would be Wights or Wraiths. How many would the spell create?, guess it depends on spell power?

Fireblast - Is'nt that the old school name for Inferno?

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 05, 2017 08:40 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 21:13, 06 Aug 2017.

phoenix4ever said:

Elemental Storm - How does this work? Does it belong to all magic schools like Magic Arrow? Guess it could be interesting.

View Artifacts - Sounds a bit OP to me, especially as a level 2 spell.

Steelskin - Hmm Expert Stone Skin is already pretty great, is'nt it?

Haunt - There are no Ghosts in Heroes 3, so I guess it would be Wights or Wraiths. How many would the spell create?, guess it depends on spell power?

Fireblast - Is'nt that the old school name for Inferno?


All these Spells are a 1:1 copy from HoMM2...

Elemtal Storm: I guess it's a random Element Storm, since there are 3 cloaks/hats ingame that recude fire/ice/lightning damage. In M&M World of Xeen it was a spell that generated an element randomly. (Much more elements were possible -> Fire, Electricty, Cold, Acid/Poison, Energy, Magic)

Artifacts: Not really you still have to get rid of the guardians, you just know where to find the stuff. And you still don't see whats in mansions, graveyards, crypts or Utopias.

Stone Skin? It's capped at a fixed level... What use has spellpower? Just the amount of rounds but nothign else. Better option imho would be to make use of spellpower and buff the def. skill.

Again, I don't really know the Haunting spell. Never got it in my mageguilds in HoMM2 so maybe another guys could help you out here. I would prefer if spellpower determain how much "ghosts" will be cast in that mine.

Fireblast was symetric but yeah more or less its the same -> still: Inferno is a super useless skill tbh.

To sum it up... I just want more skills, spells and artifacts ingame... more than anything else. Thats what keeps the game up for me... variety. For example monsters... I give a snow about the new monsters, since they are just useful when you got lucky with diplomacy. In every other situation in the game they aren't useful at all with some dwellings you may recruit a handful of them. It takes a lot of time to animated them, to polish them and to give sounds to them.... It's much easier to bring in some good old artifacts/sets with some new functions to keep up the variety.

As I wrote before... in this thread ->
P4R4D0X0N said:

• Flask of Eternal Elements (Relic) - 25-50% [see below] of Elementals summoned by (Summon Air-Elemental, Summon Earth-Elemental,
Summon Fire-Elemtanl, Summon Water-Elemental) stay alive after battle. Percentage of Elementals staying alive are dependant on heroes Air-, Earth-, Fire- and Water-Magic Level (25% without, 33% with Basic, 42% Advanced, 50% Expert Magic).

Example: Luna on lvl 5 with advanced "Fire-Magic" may keep 42% of Fire-Elementals while casting "Summon Fire-Elementals". But she has no Water-Magic, so when she casts "Summon Water-Elementals" she would only keep 25% Water-Elementals


This for example would be a super powerful artifact but it's a new tactic/gameplay situation you deal with. A new gamestyle you can play just like the undead cloak. Granted it's super powerful and gamebreaking. But if every town has it's own "Super Artifact" you need to build up from other items it's nice again and keeps up the variety (at least for me)

Anyway: I wrote my mainpoints here: http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=43966&PID=1418971#focus

Also: I would love to have "Master" and "Grandmaster" traits ingame aswell. Actually in most case you're finished with your hero when he reaches level ~17-21 depending on how many useful witch huts/akademies you find ingame. Whats nice in that case... You can buff unused skills for some more %... Like "Luck" and "Leadership" for example. ->~10% chance for moral/luck boost could raise to 15-17% aswell and hey now its useful. Same counts for Air/Earth/Water/Fire Magic... "mass spells" now only on grandmaster level means -> you need to level 2 more levels to cast mass spells for one! element. Scholar can finally raise to lvl 5 spells on grandmaster (Spells you may teach/learn: lvl1 basic, lvl2 advanced, lvl3 expert, lvl4 master, lvl5 grandmaster). While diplomacy gets a nerf when actual "expert" level (current balance) would raise to "grandmaster" level. I'm not sure about "wisdom" But if there are more spells on different levels Ingame it's still super useful imho. Since TP, DD, Fly are on highest level aswell, it would nerf and limit the use of these spells too. In case of "Navigation" and "Logistics" ESPECIALLY for heroes with specialization in it the balance is super critical. I guess the 5% bonus could be nerfed to 3.5% or something in total, but if you have other heroes with Logistics it would be much more benificial for them since you could raise the mainlevel for master and GM level here. Sure everything needs to be tested and the whole Exp/Level System needs a total overhaul. But I personally would love the change.

€dit: some more addition to my main thread... I liked above...

New stuff:
• Flask of Winds (HoMM2, major) - makes all your troops immune to hostile Air-Magic spells
• Flask of Silt (HoMM2, relic) - makes all your troops immune to hostile Earth-Magic spells
• Flask of Fire (HoMM2, relic) - makes all your troops immune to hostile Fire-Magic spells
• Flask of Rain (HoMM2, major) - makes all your troops immune to hostile Water-Magic spells
• Sextant (HoMM4, major) - raise movementpoints on sea (+1000), is needed for "Admiral's Hat"
• Leprechaun's Ring (HoMM4, minor) - Gives +2 luck to all friendly targets.
• Snowshoes (HoMM4, minor) - Gives an army the ability to ignore Snow terrain movement penalties.
• Boots of the Crocodile (HoMM4, minor) - Gives an army the ability to ignore Swamp terrain movement penalties.
• Angel's Blade (HoMM4, relic) - Gives you +10 Attack and your Angels the ability to raised dead twice per battle.
• Poison Tipped Swamp-Bow (minor) - Gives your Lizardmen and Lizard Warriors the ability to shoot twice and adds poison to their shots
• Breastplate of Regeneration (HoMM4, relic) - Gives you +12 defense and all your troops the ability to Regenerate every turn
• Winged Sandals (HoMM4, major) - Gives all friendly creatures +2 movement in combat.
• Ring of the Archmage (relic) - The cost of every spell you cast in combat is reduced by 2 spell points
• Evil Eye (HoMM2, major) - reduces casting cost of curse spells by half
• Snake Ring (HoMM2, minor) - reduces casting cost of bless spells by half.
• Skullcap (HoMM2, major) - reduces casting cost of all mind influencing spells
• Ankh (HoMM2, relic) - doubles the effectiveness of all your resurect and animate spells
• Enchanted Hourglass (HoMM2, treasure) - extends duration of all spells by 2 turns
• Power Ring (HoMM2, major) - returns 2 extra spell points per turn to your hero
• Gambler's Lucky Coin (HoMM2, treasure) - Luck +1
• Fire Cloak (HoMM2, major) -  halves all damage your troops take from fire spells
• Ice Cloak (HoMM2, major) -  halves all damage your troops take from ice spells
• Lightning Cloak (HoMM2, major) -  halves all damage your troops take from air spells

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted August 06, 2017 09:41 PM
Edited by phe at 22:34, 06 Aug 2017.

I think these powerful +12like artifacts from H2 should be dual wielded or occupy both slots on one arm...

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Ericoz
Ericoz


Adventuring Hero
posted August 07, 2017 06:46 AM

Like I said before, there is absolutely no excuse to leave learning the way it is while modifying necromancy/scouting.

Even doubling its percentage would still make it a bad skill, but would still be better than leaving it untouched.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 07, 2017 07:09 PM

phe said:
I think these powerful +12like artifacts from H2 should be dual wielded or occupy both slots on one arm...


Imho its more than ok... If you have a look on several Items in HoMM3... it's much more crucial "Angelic Alliance" -> "Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment" is at blank 24 primary Skillpoints double amount of +12 (the whole Set is +21 to all)

Ericoz said:
Like I said before, there is absolutely no excuse to leave learning the way it is while modifying necromancy/scouting.

Even doubling its percentage would still make it a bad skill, but would still be better than leaving it untouched.


And I still agree on that. Learning wasn't even a skill in HoMM2 so there are no nostalgic reasons to keep the skill that way.

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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted August 07, 2017 08:32 PM
Edited by phe at 20:34, 07 Aug 2017.

P4R4D0X0N said:
phe said:
I think these powerful +12like artifacts from H2 should be dual wielded or occupy both slots on one arm...


Imho its more than ok... If you have a look on several Items in HoMM3... it's much more crucial "Angelic Alliance" -> "Helm of Heavenly Enlightenment" is at blank 24 primary Skillpoints double amount of +12 (the whole Set is +21 to all)



sorry for some short cut of thoughts...I wonderered to add H2 ultimate artefacts to H3 but to have feeling of their power we need to double their attributes for H3...so if Ultimate Sword (+12 attack form H2) should have +24 attack in H3...seems to much..so let it occupy 2 slots to not make them so powerful...whole arm for Sword...whole arm for Shield...breast and back for Cloak..but one slot for Crown...  
Quote:

And I still agree on that. Learning wasn't even a skill in HoMM2 so there are no nostalgic reasons to keep the skill that way.

maybe there should be possibility in starting options to get rid of some secondary skills from game...

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 08, 2017 02:41 AM

I agree here and think +12 is really the limit for these artifacts, maybe you can add another feature to the weapons aswell. Like I wrote above in Case of "Angel's Blade" that would have another feature (Angels can raise dead twice per battle)


If it was for me "relic" needs to be splitted in "legendary" and "relic", weaker relics stay in relic tier, while "legendary" class is super powerful like all finished "Sets", 2 Items from "Angelic Alliance" (helm, sword) shield could stay on relic, furthermore I would set sandals down to major same as necklace) and of course "Angel Wings" that needs "legendary" class

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OrrinIsTheBest
OrrinIsTheBest

Tavern Dweller
posted August 11, 2017 07:12 PM

I really like the idea that makes elementals stay with the hero after the fight. But let's calculate to see how broken it could get:
For example my hero has got 8 spell power and 9 knowledge with expert air in week 3 and i somehow get summon air elemental spell. For every cast (25 mana points) i get 8*4/2= 16 air elementals and i farm approx. 50 of them until im out of mana. Now imagine by luck, getting Wizard's Well and collecting up to 100 per day in only month one. And finally the best part of it, 20th level Orrin casts bless on 1000+ storm elementals and boom, the opponent ragequits and never plays HotA again.
Joking aside, it really feels like there should be some boost to elementals since they can't be brought back to life but not the way it was suggested above. I mean if it is applied we'll only see intelligence specialty heroes as main in PvP. Anyway either by creating a spell equivalent to resurrection/animate dead or by making a way to farm elementals, i believe developers are gonna do some balance work about it.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 11, 2017 09:10 PM

I think the elemental spells are just fine. Have you never fought an AI spamming them and suddenly you have to deal with 1000 elementals?... Having elementals stay after battle would be a huge mistake imo.

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted August 11, 2017 09:36 PM

phoenix4ever said:
I think the elemental spells are just fine. Have you never fought an AI spamming them and suddenly you have to deal with 1000 elementals?... Having elementals stay after battle would be a huge mistake imo.


I agree with this one. It would be so overpowerd.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 11, 2017 11:23 PM

As I said before it's a super artifact like "Horn of the Abyss" or "Cloak of the Undead King". Furthermore you need a lvl5 spell, the artifact itself combined from 4 Flasks 2x on relic and 2x on major rank, furthermore a hero with high Spellpower and Spellpoints in ideal conditions, furthermore all four elemental schools to be effective in spawning. Don't tell me it's inbalanced. Compared to Isra/Vidomia and "Cloak of the Undead King" it's still a bad joke in case of requirements and effectiveness. Furthermore the % of elementals staying alive with the Flask as I defined it is still balanceable it was just an example.

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted August 12, 2017 12:09 AM

But I can imagine fighting a stack of few slow units (neutral), and spamming summon elemental spell until all spell points are spent. At least with the Horn and Cloak, it depends on the number of units you are fighting.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 12, 2017 12:13 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 00:15, 12 Aug 2017.

@Paradoxon Well if you are talking about new artifacts (or combo artifacts?) then yeah, maybe. But I think the elemental spells themselves are fine the way they are. And I still don't like the idea of keeping them after battle, then every fight turns in to how to make most elementals, which could easily be abused with Wizard's Well, Intelligence specialists and so on.
And yes btw Cloak of the Undead King is also extremely overpowered.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 12, 2017 11:24 PM

Nah, the spells are okay more or less for sure even if I would put them on lvl4 and Armageddon on 5... But since elementals don't have any chance for reviving them in/after battle this would be a nice addition imho. Maybe you can add another rule to it like "Elemental Spells can be cast only once per battle" and we're fine again.

I was refrering to this and change it:

Quote:

• Flask of Eternal Elements: (Flask of Winds, Flask of Silt, Flask of Fire, Flask of Rain) - 25-50% [see below] of Elementals summoned by (Summon Air-Elemental, Summon Earth-Elemental,
Summon Fire-Elemtanl, Summon Water-Elemental) stay alive after battle. Summon Elemental spells can be use only once per battle.

Percentage of Elementals staying alive are dependant on heroes Air-, Earth-, Fire- and Water-Magic Level (25% without, 33% with Basic, 42% Advanced, 50% Expert Magic). Example: Luna on lvl 5 with advanced "Fire-Magic" may keep 42% of Fire-Elementals while casting "Summon Fire-Elementals". But she has no Water-Magic, so when she casts "Summon Water-Elementals" she would only keep 25% Water-Elementals


Speaking of Armageddon: It has no counterpart, one more reason why good and neutral towns are less beneficial than evil towns. Furthermore I don't understand why Inferno hasn't the biggest chance for the spell but Dungeon has? Is there lore about it or is it just "random"?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 13, 2017 12:01 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 08:23, 13 Aug 2017.

It's not really a counterpart, but evil towns get Armageddon and good and neutral towns get Prayer.
I don't know about lore, but Dungeon has the most powerful spellcasters (Warlocks) and Black Dragons are better suited for Armageddon than Efreets.
I personally think Armageddon is way too powerful and Inferno (spell) is way too weak...
Btw the problem with level 5 Armageddon is poor Gold Dragons which can then be affected by Armageddon, but still not resurrected.
Elemental spells are fine at level 5 otherwise there would be very few level 5 spells.

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