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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 189 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 40 80 120 160 ... 185 186 187 188 189 · «PREV / NEXT»
NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted April 03, 2022 02:39 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 02:43, 03 Apr 2022.

Even if resistance doesn't end up delivering due to RNG, in the significant case of smaller stacks, a chance of affecting the outcome is better than 0% chance with just damage reduction.

Another scenario in which this is significant is a scout hero with only 1-stacks being catched by your enemy. If your enemy has a faster creature you can't retreat and they go first. Interference won't protect your small stacks from the enemy finishing you with a spell and thus destroying your hero, but Resistance may give you the chance to trigger a resist and surrender/flee on your creature's turn.

This also counts late in the fight if you have few creatures left.
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Never changing = never improving

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted April 03, 2022 03:35 AM

Our history? Yes talked about excellent Resistance, and now..
Thus your opinion.. RoE'er Straker said..
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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted April 03, 2022 10:44 AM
Edited by MattII at 10:46, 03 Apr 2022.

Phoenix4ever said:
MattII said:

You say all this like assuming that Resistance will actually deliver on its promises. The thing is though, you can't guarantee that. If you get three no-blocks in a row, that's not unfair, that's entirely fair, since it gives only a 20% change of resisting spells.

+ Dwarves, unicorns, resistance artifacts (if not combo artifact) and Thorgrim.
It can certainly be a lot more than 20%...
Dwarves and unicorns are both Rampart creatures, and Thorgrim is/was a Rampart hero. As for the artefacts, again, you can't guarantee access to them, all the more since the set is composed of two Majors and a Relic.

NimoStar said:
Even if resistance doesn't end up delivering due to RNG, in the significant case of smaller stacks, a chance of affecting the outcome is better than 0% chance with just damage reduction.
Interference affects more than just damage spells, it also affects Cure, Animate Dead, Resurrection, Hypnotise and all of the Summon Elemental spells.

Also, how is a mostly zero effect somehow better than a guaranteed effect (if the enemy is using damage-dealing spells)?

Quote:
Another scenario in which this is significant is a scout hero with only 1-stacks being catched by your enemy. If your enemy has a faster creature you can't retreat and they go first. Interference won't protect your small stacks from the enemy finishing you with a spell and thus destroying your hero, but Resistance may give you the chance to trigger a resist and surrender/flee on your creature's turn.

This also counts late in the fight if you have few creatures left.
Possibly significant, possibly, but probably not often.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted April 03, 2022 12:12 PM

NimoStar said:

BTW, interference being sought in some specific multiplayer templates doesn't mean it's a well designed skill and doesn't say wether people would not seek out Resistance more if it existed. At least half of secondary skills are borderline useless (Learning, First Aid, Eagle Eye, etc.) so "some players choose it" isn't a good metric. The only skill with which it competed in function is removed.

Those named "some people" are generally speaking way better players than those that are only going against the AI. The AI is solely there to entertain the average player. I think Homm3 AI is quite good for the time being, as it can get out there and achieve victories against neutral enemies. However, when you start scratching the surface, the weaknesses become very clear; for example, it doesn't know how to build the hero nor how to fight properly. Thus the player doesn't get punished by his own mistakes, final fight or not. Therefore, player is very free to build up basically anything, taking his time, and having the illusion of "making anything to work."

Basically every template runs Interference, so saying that "only some do", doesn't hold water. It is an actively good skill, core pick even, you want to have it among the skills you got, and for certainly not chosen because of there being even worse skills out there.

Especially the most competitive templates that do mirror the map for both players, Interference is brutal - you have access to the exact same stuff, but if the other player have Interference and the other does not, the player having it has a massive advantage.
NimoStar said:

Enable both Resistance and Interference and see which one players prefer when they can choose ingame. I'm certain of the answer.


Well, hopefully you picked Interference.

I mean, the change wasn't done because of the "Hota just wanting to mess with skills because of their will to mess with skills", but rather based on (pro) multiplayer feedback. Among them, the Resistance wasn't seen as a suitable option for the final battle happening. I wasn't around in SOD multiplayer/pre-interference scene, but I've understood that Resistance didn't see much of play back then, and I can most certainly say that Interference on the other hand does see a lot of play today. In that light, it's pretty hard to see why the multiplayer scene would suddenly choose Resistance, as the templates or the general way of how to play the game hasn't changed.

But really, any player can enable both skills on their maps. For terms of default settings thou, it makes no sense to enable both on the same time.

Interference is well-designed for it's own purpose. For the players not willing to play with it, are completely fine doing so. However, flirting with the idea that it should somehow be "removed", doesn't only make any sense, but is like some kind of twisted WOG - you choosing how others play.

(And no, I haven't forgotten my question.)

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted April 03, 2022 02:20 PM

Yes the multiplayer scene hates random and wants it fair. This is where Hota's gamedesign decisions don't follow what NWC would have done as the game was never designed to be an e-sport. I understand though, and I will give it another go once Factory is released either way.
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 03, 2022 05:15 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 17:17, 03 Apr 2022.

Better remove anything to do with morale and luck too then, as that is also random.

Competitive multiplayers are just scared noobs afraid of getting a result they did'nt expect.
Resistance is unpredictable, Interference is extremely predictable.

@Hourglass If you are saying Interference is a core skill, that means magic heroes are basically useless in HotA since they have 0 - extremely low chance of learning it...

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gnollking
gnollking


Supreme Hero
posted April 03, 2022 07:09 PM
Edited by gnollking at 19:10, 03 Apr 2022.

Phoenix4ever said:
Competitive multiplayers are just scared noobs

Lol. You went too far with this one, now everyone will realize you're just trolling.

Has been kinda fun until this point how insanely ridiculous comments you and Nimo have been able to get away with

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shev441
shev441


Adventuring Hero
posted April 05, 2022 10:26 PM

Phoenix4ever said:
Better remove anything to do with morale and luck too then, as that is also random.

Competitive multiplayers are just scared noobs afraid of getting a result they did'nt expect.



Dude, like what is even the point of your posts in Hota thread? You have spoken many times that you play single player and modify game for yourself. So why keep spaming about changes to game anyway? Discussin how to improve online game are valid  because rules there are for everyone - you cant tweak them cause it would be cheating.

Also in lots of your posts its clear that you dont understand how game works (maybe because you dont play in multiplayer). Don't really have time to search in past in detail what you have written but maybe i'll give 1 example to not look like someone who doesn't have argument.

Interference is clearly better than resistance. It reduce sp so all spells of enemy are worse - including summoning of elementals, ressurection, duration of blind/slow etc and dmg of spells. And it works all the time.
Resistance is totally hit or miss, often you play whole game with perk that has no use for whole game to find out in Final battle that it haven't worked once. Interference is consider by vast amount of players to be very good skill (still not op like earth magic). Better and less annoying/unfair than classical resistance used to be.
Still if you want you can turn on that skill in game or even play it in muliplayer by editing template in temp editor. Somehow noone or almost noone is doing it, cause change is for the better.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 05, 2022 11:45 PM

It's okay, we don't have to agree.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted April 06, 2022 04:22 PM

You should play HoMM3 WoG/ERA Cryptic Random is coming.. When description says "Fight between Heroes still against the rare HoMM game variations are Join or Die, Ring and Undiscovered Worlds." Hmm excellent players are unknown Join or Die and Undiscovered Worlds are RoE and hard lvl maps, random template gave special Ring.. Now they are a very OP or pension. Later on I test a HotA, because easier and Berserk also a new Secondary Skills.. What I call a new.. Other what? Rare Illusion World III map has used Undiscovered Worlds variation..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted April 07, 2022 10:34 AM

shev441 said:
Phoenix4ever said:
Better remove anything to do with morale and luck too then, as that is also random.

Competitive multiplayers are just scared noobs afraid of getting a result they did'nt expect.



Dude, like what is even the point of your posts in Hota thread? You have spoken many times that you play single player and modify game for yourself. So why keep spaming about changes to game anyway? Discussin how to improve online game are valid  because rules there are for everyone - you cant tweak them cause it would be cheating.

Also in lots of your posts its clear that you dont understand how game works (maybe because you dont play in multiplayer). Don't really have time to search in past in detail what you have written but maybe i'll give 1 example to not look like someone who doesn't have argument.

Interference is clearly better than resistance. It reduce sp so all spells of enemy are worse - including summoning of elementals, ressurection, duration of blind/slow etc and dmg of spells. And it works all the time.
Resistance is totally hit or miss, often you play whole game with perk that has no use for whole game to find out in Final battle that it haven't worked once. Interference is consider by vast amount of players to be very good skill (still not op like earth magic). Better and less annoying/unfair than classical resistance used to be.
Still if you want you can turn on that skill in game or even play it in muliplayer by editing template in temp editor. Somehow noone or almost noone is doing it, cause change is for the better.


It's because xim is lying about playing only single player. and this is definitely not the first time xim has been called out for his bs.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted April 07, 2022 11:43 AM

I want say about single player..

If WoG/ERA seems hard, thus SoD.. If a new MOD is offering, he/she tries MOD. And he/she has found HotA..

But misfortune that HotA is a MP.. I don't recommend single player comments something, he/she should play and comment a SoD..

And then single player should be in HoMM3: HotA - Announcements, Questions, Features! He/she asks why a buff, etc

Sad that HoMM isn't chess engine where single player can developing at top level. The same thing if it seems hard and to move SoD or another MOD..

Yes developing can be realized, but another thing.. I'm talking about difficulty level..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 07, 2022 12:28 PM

Kipshasz said:
It's because xim is lying about playing only single player. and this is definitely not the first time xim has been called out for his bs.

What are you talking about?

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted April 09, 2022 01:40 PM

@Phoenix

If you are playing Undiscovered Worlds You will developing HoMM player.. A map you don't find a AI bonuses, etc thus unbelievable AIs.. You can think about better human player.. And you own/have a rare map.. RoE map and Hard level..

@experienced players

You can also play in SoD, HotA or you find another version is WoGify.. Unknown mapmaker is a brainy..


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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted April 18, 2022 04:30 PM

If Eagle Eye is so bad, and WoG is better.. HotA can't use a WoG..
No worries! Depends a lot on you..

When you edit a hero editor, and you choose Spells, then available spells, you choose a Fly, TP, etc You can play them without Expert Wisdom.. Is it right?

So Eagle Eye, without skill, spell can't appear on a handbook. What? Eagle Eye is the same and a new bonuses are Scroll can move to handbook and if hero has Earth, basic Eagle Eye gives 1-2lvl Earth spells in every week, etc and it doesn't give a Berserk, if hero hasn't a Fire skill, but Pyramid and Scroll are allowing also hero must fight and hope opponent casts Berserk..

Rule too what? I wrote that available spells to hero, but without skill. It can't appear.. Hero needs Expert Wisdom and Air, if wants a Fly..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted April 22, 2022 08:28 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 08:58, 22 Apr 2022.

Logistics & Navigation Specialists

I'm still not convinced about the nerf to Logistics but I guess it accomplishes the objective, now not getting this skill on main is not an automatic loss condition in MP.
But I've been playing a map where there is a lot of water (Heir to a Lost Throne) and it happened that I had Kyrre and Elmore or Kyrre and Sylvia more then once. Now, while Kyrre frequently helped filling the distance to take a second town in the same day, it becomes almost unbearable to see one hero getting 200/300% movement points from his specialty, while the other gets a mere 20/30% even when I started developing it months earlier...
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 22, 2022 08:40 AM

There was never anything wrong with the Logistics skill, it is the Logistics specialists that's the problem...

Navigation specialists are also OP on maps with lots of water, especially Elmore.

Not sure these movement specialists should exist at all, they get some really distinct advantages.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted April 22, 2022 08:55 AM

I hate to agree with you, cause my feeling is more like "oh! This guy is awesome", but in fact Navigation already gives a too great bonus to have an hero doubling or tripling it.
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted April 22, 2022 09:15 AM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 09:17, 22 Apr 2022.

Yup Navigation specialists also get a pretty insane specialty.

What do Melodia, Inteus, Astral, Eagle Eye and First Aid specialists get?, basically no specialty at all...

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Erathianer
Erathianer


Adventuring Hero
posted April 27, 2022 03:58 PM

Quick combat spell casting

Can someone tell me how to activate spell casting during quick combat?

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