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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This thread is 32 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 28 29 30 31 32 · «PREV / NEXT»
Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 26, 2018 07:06 PM
Edited by Maurice at 19:08, 26 Mar 2018.

Since this topic is for ideas and suggestions and not the official channel, of course it wasn't mentioned here yet. The official post can be found here in the main thread about HotA.

Also, if you get surprised by enemy army strength, you obviously didn't check the tavern every now and then to see relative strengths between players, as well as power of the main hero and their best unit. Scouting is as much crucial to winning a war as actually fielding an army is.

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Orrinisthebest
Orrinisthebest


Adventuring Hero
posted March 26, 2018 07:16 PM

StrikerX said:
Some suggestions for the Hota Template Editor.

- Is there a way in template editor to allow us to set creature guards to 'Savage' instead of Hostile when map gets created.  The super rich zones which have tier 7 guards guarding relics end up joining the AI way to often.  First time I met an AI on Huge/Giant map he had 5 stacks of 50+ tier 6 and 7 troops.  Relics are too powerful to have the guards joining them as well and I don't care for diplomacy secondary.  As far as I know in map editor you have to set each individual guard to savage?


Since AI never surrenders you might as well ban diplomacy. Also don't get me wrong but if AI doesn't exploit the hell out of diplomacy in big maps what is the point of playing against it?

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Hired Hero
posted March 26, 2018 08:04 PM
Edited by Gandalf196 at 20:05, 26 Mar 2018.

Maurice said:
Gandalf196 said:
Please keep in mind that I am not talking about balance ...


... which might actually be precisely the reason they did this in the first place . I suspect play-testing revealed that Wizard armies were somewhat too weak, lacking in offensive capabilities and rectified this by increasing the odds of gaining Attack instead of Spell Power.


Hmm, if that is the concern, we could implement my suggestion and also swap genies with magi, therefore giving tower shooters at levels 1, 5 and 7; genies are weak attackers anyway, too fragile, they would be saved for buffing (or maybe debuffing, if we choose the Heroes V way: unupgraded can only debuff and upgraded genie can do both). This would be consistent with the other factions (liches, sea witches and zealots are all level 5) and with Heroes II, where Wizards debuted Magi were just one level inferior to titans.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Adventuring Hero
posted March 26, 2018 08:13 PM

Gandalf196 said:

Wizards!
They're supposed to be the polar opposite of barbarians the epitome of arcane lore (remember Heroes Chronicles: Masters of the Elements; "Tarnum becomes that which he hates most, a Wizard"). However, for some bizarre reason their scaling after level 10 is this: 30/20/20/30 (instead of the traditional 20/20/30/30 for magic heroes). Why? Maybe only JVC knows, but I'd place my money on error; there's no reasonable justification for it, they're not battle mages or hybrid class. I firmly believe this should be corrected.



This could be indeed due a simple mistake down by the developers, or as Maurice said, a change meant to make wizards better fighters. If this is the case, I belive this change was done in a very late state of developing the game. However, I belive Hota will most likely not change this feature, even they would belive that it is a bug. They made Navigator scale just like wizards do past level 10.

Also, Hota is known to make other bugs seem like features. IIRC, Bron the Beastmaster should not spawn with level 4 creatures in his army. They however made that thing seem like a feature, as they made Ilor to spawn with stormbirds.

I don't personally see that as a problem. I know wizards are commonly said to be wise men with beards, spellcasting abilites and pointy hats, but then again, the developers may have felt that Wizards should be something else as well in the world of Homm3.

GodricTheClast said:
I have a question regarding hota - will there be an increase in the number of players from the standard 8 with new flag designs and colors? ?


I would love to see this as well - giant maps with underground on them are ALOT bigger than simple XL maps. It would only make sense to add few more colors to the game.


phoenix4ever said:
I don't like Wayfarer's Boots in HotA, they ruin Pathfinding and we already have Angel Wings, Expert Fly and Cove's grail for that.
Maybe you could rework the artifact and make it Nomad's Boots or Sandwalker's Boots instead and only remove penalty from sand and maybe move it from major to minor?, that way Pathfinding would still have some use.


I dislike the boots in that sense as well. I think no artifact should make a skill useless like that. There aren't that much competition when it comes to what you should wore in your boot slot + HD mod makes so easy to switch between usable artifacts, so just switch to sandals of saint when you're about to fight, making you feel bad if you picked pathfinding and found those boots.

However, I wouldn't be surpised if they're going to do something for the pathfinding skill as well in the future.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 26, 2018 08:30 PM

Hourglass said:
However, I wouldn't be surpised if they're going to do something for the pathfinding skill as well in the future.

Maybe, I wonder what they could do with it though?
But I don't understand why they introduced an artifact that ruins a skill.
For now I have decided to just ban Wayfarer's Boots.

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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted March 26, 2018 09:48 PM
Edited by StrikerX at 21:56, 26 Mar 2018.

phoenix4ever said:
Hourglass said:
However, I wouldn't be surpised if they're going to do something for the pathfinding skill as well in the future.

Maybe, I wonder what they could do with it though?
But I don't understand why they introduced an artifact that ruins a skill.
For now I have decided to just ban Wayfarer's Boots.


Angel wings is much worse than wayfarer boots (as far as ruining pathfinding) and you can use speed boots with them.  I never play with angel wings, fly, dd or town portal so I don't consider the boots that bad.  

Atleast with those I gotta decide whether I wear them or speed and it's usually speed.

Orrinisthebest said:

Since AI never surrenders you might as well ban diplomacy. Also don't get me wrong but if AI doesn't exploit the hell out of diplomacy in big maps what is the point of playing against it?


I agree to some extent, but when I have like 12 devils and maybe 4 weeks worth of creatures from 1 town and the first AI hero I meet has 50+ of 4 tier 7's and assorted other stuff and practially none of his original town army it's a total wipe.  I doubt these hero's even had the diplomacy skill but I'll try banning it as well and seeing if that makes a difference.  

Still if it's possible to add the option somewhere in the template editor that would be ideal.  You should have to fight for relics not given the relic and 50+ tier 7

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Hired Hero
posted March 26, 2018 10:07 PM
Edited by Gandalf196 at 22:08, 26 Mar 2018.

Hourglass said:
Gandalf196 said:

Wizards!
They're supposed to be the polar opposite of barbarians the epitome of arcane lore (remember Heroes Chronicles: Masters of the Elements; "Tarnum becomes that which he hates most, a Wizard"). However, for some bizarre reason their scaling after level 10 is this: 30/20/20/30 (instead of the traditional 20/20/30/30 for magic heroes). Why? Maybe only JVC knows, but I'd place my money on error; there's no reasonable justification for it, they're not battle mages or hybrid class. I firmly believe this should be corrected.



This could be indeed due a simple mistake down by the developers, or as Maurice said, a change meant to make wizards better fighters. If this is the case, I belive this change was done in a very late state of developing the game. However, I belive Hota will most likely not change this feature, even they would belive that it is a bug. They made Navigator scale just like wizards do past level 10.

Also, Hota is known to make other bugs seem like features. IIRC, Bron the Beastmaster should not spawn with level 4 creatures in his army. They however made that thing seem like a feature, as they made Ilor to spawn with stormbirds.

I don't personally see that as a problem. I know wizards are commonly said to be wise men with beards, spellcasting abilites and pointy hats, but then again, the developers may have felt that Wizards should be something else as well in the world of Homm3.



1 I also believe this odd scaling is due to balance and seems like a last minute change. Your remark about the navigators is, actually, in accordance with my opening post, "This 30/20/20/30 may suit a battle mage, or even a navigator, but certainly not a staff wielding, ponty hat, old wise man.";
2 I don't know about this fact you pointed out, but I firmly believe that if Beastmasters were to scale like this, after level 10, 30/20/30/20, people would urge for fixing;
3 As I stated, it is conspicuously incoherent with the game lore; nowhere is it suggested that the Wizards of Bracada are something other than dedicated pursuers of arcane lore. Indeed, the fact that even Battle Magi have a better chance to get Spell Power after level 10, 25%, just confirms my thesis.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 26, 2018 11:01 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:03, 26 Mar 2018.

StrikerX said:
Angel wings is much worse than wayfarer boots (as far as ruining pathfinding) and you can use speed boots with them.  I never play with angel wings, fly, dd or town portal so I don't consider the boots that bad.  

Atleast with those I gotta decide whether I wear them or speed and it's usually speed.

Yes Angel Wings also ruin Pathfinding, but at least they can't be bought and I think it makes AI more challenging if it has them.
Why you ban Fly, you consider it OP? I edited DD so it's always only one cast per day and TP always takes players to nearest town, while AI can select town at Advanced Earth Magic, as usual. It makes for a harder and more interesting game i think.
You do know you only have to wear Boots Of Speed and Equestrians Gloves at the end of the day, to get bonus next day, right? That means you can just change to Wayfarer's Boots whenever you need them.

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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted March 26, 2018 11:31 PM
Edited by StrikerX at 23:42, 26 Mar 2018.

phoenix4ever said:

Why you ban Fly, you consider it OP?


I loved these spells in H2 and H3 when the games first released.  I grew tired of them though and wanted to see if the AI could be more of a challenge without them.

I might enable Fly and Angel wings again since we talking about it.  I kind of miss the wings.  Especially with the larger maps now I guess they kinda needed.

I don't like DD cause you can skip over boundaries and makes it too easy to take out castles.  Especially now since the new templates make good zones.   And I don't use TP cause it just makes it more interesting to lose castles or have a really good castle battle with a secondary hero with fewer troops.

phoenix4ever said:

You do know you only have to wear Boots Of Speed and Equestrians Gloves at the end of the day, to get bonus next day, right? That means you can just change to Wayfarer's Boots whenever you need them.


Yeah, I use them that way sometimes if I don't have Pathfinding on a main hero or usually switch between speed and Sandals of the Saint.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 26, 2018 11:55 PM

My XL +Underground island map usually takes 4-6 months to complete, without Fly and Angel Wings it would probably take 8-10.
So I'd probably recommend Fly and maybe Angel Wings.
Old Town Portal is incredibly OP and you might as well say GG AI when you get that and Advanced Earth Magic. My version makes the game harder though.
I also like those epic town battles, where you sometimes can defeat much bigger armies and stronger heroes, by playing clever. Oh and don't forget to get Artillery for all your castle defenders, makes town battles much easier.

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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted March 27, 2018 12:26 AM

phoenix4ever said:
My XL +Underground island map usually takes 4-6 months to complete, without Fly and Angel Wings it would probably take 8-10.


I play without roads, view earth and air as well and on my current huge map I'm almost month 3 and haven't left starter zone yet  

Roads give away the entire map too much by pointing the way to every castle.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
there's gonna be hell toupee!
posted March 27, 2018 02:19 AM

StrikerX said:
Roads give away the entire map too much by pointing the way to every castle.


not if you have roads that lead nowhere.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted March 27, 2018 11:40 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:41, 27 Mar 2018.

phoenix4ever said:
My XL +Underground island map usually takes 4-6 months to complete, without Fly and Angel Wings it would probably take 8-10.
So I'd probably recommend Fly and maybe Angel Wings.
Old Town Portal is incredibly OP and you might as well say GG AI when you get that and Advanced Earth Magic. My version makes the game harder though.
I also like those epic town battles, where you sometimes can defeat much bigger armies and stronger heroes, by playing clever. Oh and don't forget to get Artillery for all your castle defenders, makes town battles much easier.

So, you play without TP but with Fly? I find Fly and DD a bit unwelcome but normally wouldn't choose to play a large map without TP.
OTOH, the way I buff AI no one could ever win a castle battle against the top heroes. Even if you get ten or twelve in each prim for a town defender, how can that beat a guy with 30 or 40? If you make AI heroes a challenge against your better heroes, they wont be beaten by a guy with three weeks of training, at least if summon elementals is somehow available. I only keep guys inside the towns because I need them to carry the Cornucopias and Golden Gooses I so often assemble.
Would you be so kind as to send me a copy of your map (mine is published in Maps4Heroes, is called The Red Tent) I would like to try it.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 27, 2018 01:55 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 14:43, 27 Mar 2018.

No I play with TP, but it only takes me to nearest town, while it works as normal for AI.

Hmm as you know I play with a lot of custom rules, so I am not sure my map will be compatible with a standard version of HotA.
You would probably need to disable TP, as it makes the map extremely easy (like any map) and set DD to only 1 cast per day, like me.
Notice there are some places of the map that are only reachable by DD, so I would recommend having DD enabled, but only at 1 cast per day.
Next you would have to disable Armageddon's Blade. (I have allowed it in a nerfed version, were it does'nt make you immune to Armageddon and only gives you "unskilled" Armageddon.)
There might be some heroes you need to enable or disable as well.
And there may be other changes you would need to do as well...

The map is you and 5 AI, all VS all. It is also available in a team version 2 VS 2 VS 2.
You can be any town and any color you want.
Notice that some towns start with 17 heroes, (Castle, Cove and Necropolis) the 17th hero you can't select as a starting hero, but it might appear in tavern or if you select random starting hero. (I always select random starting hero, to make each game different.)
The extra Necropolis hero Finneas, is undead Lord Haart in "disguise". In my version of the game he works just like Tamika, giving bonus to Black/Dread Knights, but in your game he will give an OP bonus to attack, defense and damage of Black/Dread Knights, so you probably need to disable him.
Please don't pay too much attention to the history and texts in the map, it's been a long time since I updated those and honestly I don't care about that so much.
I recommend playing at 160% difficulty. (At 200% it gets incredibly hard/annoying to defend all your towns.)
If you play the team version, allied with someone, I would recommend 200%, as it seems to be easier in multiplayer.

I could perhaps mail the single player version to you if you want, just be prepared to maybe change some stuff yourself...

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Pedrof
Pedrof

Tavern Dweller
posted March 27, 2018 02:07 PM

How to identify required slots for a combo artifact.

Hello,

A nice-to-have feature for a next release would be the identification of slots needed for combo artifacts...

When you took a combo artifact from your bag-pack, it would be great if the required slots are identified in some way, even if they are occupied...

Unless this feature, each time I took a combo artifac from an enemy, I have to unwear all the artifacts from my hero to see which spaces will be occupied by this artifact...

Thanks in advance, and congratulation for the impresive work already done.


____________

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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted March 27, 2018 07:11 PM
Edited by StrikerX at 19:18, 27 Mar 2018.

phoenix4ever said:
TP always takes players to nearest town, while AI can select town at Advanced Earth Magic, as usual.


Did you have to hex edit Hota to get TP to work this way and how would I do this with HotA?

Also I currently play without Resurrect but was wondering how could I make this a 5th level spell and cost 30 sp to cast so maybe it wouldn't be so OP and I'd run out of mana faster.  Could even be used to resurrect your "Poor Gold Dragons" then  Maybe move sacrifice to a 4rth level spell then.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 27, 2018 07:50 PM

Yes I use a Hex Editor, Hex Editor Neo to be exact, it's good and free I think.
It's actually really easy to change, when you know how.
You need to change the hota.exe and find line 0001d6d4 you should see a 02 in this location, you need to change 02 to 7f and save.
That is all, very easy, but be sure to get it right or anything can happen.

I agree that Resurrection (and Animate Dead) is OP, but I don't think moving it to level 5 is a good solution. Then Castle and Cove can't learn it and what about Animate Dead, should it go to level 4 then?
Gold Dragons (and Black Dragons) are'nt meant to be resurrected, so I don't think you should be able to resurrect them all of a sudden.
I made Animate Dead as expensive as Resurrection though, as Animate Dead is even more OP than Resurrection.
(I'm staying with the old Resistance skill though, I really don't like the new one.)

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted March 27, 2018 07:53 PM

Yeah phoenix4ever still learns
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted March 27, 2018 09:49 PM

phoenix4ever said:

I agree that Resurrection (and Animate Dead) is OP, but I don't think moving it to level 5 is a good solution. Then Castle and Cove can't learn it and what about Animate Dead, should it go to level 4 then?



Ah yeah I forgot about those towns being lvl 4 guilds.  I didn't mention animate dead cause I don't play with Necro town and have it disabled as well.  Still since I currently don't even use the spell, might be worth trying.

Still would like to know how to disable the Cover of Darkness for good so it can never be built.  #1 reason I didn't like H3 when it first came out and the fact that Necropolis's would always show up no matter what.  I wouldn't mind playing with Necro's otherwise.


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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 27, 2018 10:18 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 22:23, 27 Mar 2018.

My personal opinion is ban as few things as possible, the more things you ban, the more you limit the gameplay. The more possibilities there are, the different the game will feel each time.
But obviously there are things very overpowered or underpowered, but I tried balancing them, instead of banning them.

Hmm you don't like Necro because of Cover Of Darkness? I don't know how to ban it, except for disabling Cover Of Darkness at Necropolis towns or disabling building #18 at random towns in map editor, but then you will also ban a building for any other town.
I get that Cover Of Darkness is annoying, but it is a feature of Necropolis and when you build it, it confuses AI as well, so I think it's fair.

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