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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM3: The Succession Wars Mod
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM3: The Succession Wars Mod This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
un_notas
un_notas


Hired Hero
posted January 19, 2019 06:25 PM

Orzie,
These bugs are actually an evidence about how challenging is to build these mods, we really appreciate the good work all your team is doing, thank you very much.

I played this mod years ago when it had upgrades for all creatures. I understand this release does no longer have them, to keep the same dynamics homm2 had, but I have to say I actually miss them now, I think it was also cool that you had made new designs for upgraded versions.

Perhaps this is jusst me. If I am honest, I would have loved a mod in Homm3 for third upgrades in some creatures because it actually makes more interesting the game at the beginning when you are tight on resources and have to decide if the upgrades are worth it.

Do you think there will be a future version of this mod with upgraded creatures_ As I know some people would like to keep it on this way, I assume this should be an option you can switch on or off...

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Reinventing the Steel
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 19, 2019 10:58 PM
Edited by orzie at 23:11, 19 Jan 2019.

No, you won't have them officially.

Heroes 2 is a different game from Heroes 3. Such is the creature design. There we can see, let's say, "intelligent" beings which are upgradeable, and "beasts/animals" who are not upgradeable. And this is done for a big reason. You cannot have an upgradeable Boar if you don't have upgrades for Cyclops or Hydra or Phoenix. At the same time, having the beasts upgradeable, you position them as something able to develop, while in simple concept of Heroes 2, which is heavily built on mythology and fairy tales, these beasts are "canonical" and do not develop with years. It is not a Pokemon game, it is a legend, a fairy tale, and the beasts are not able to evolve. The Dragons is the exception since they are seen as "intelligent" which can be noted in campaign plot and the presence of Dragon Cities. Another exception is un-upgradeable level 1, which was a gameplay rule of Heroes 2.

Heroes 3, in contrary, is not a fairy tale game, but it is much more built over Dungeons&Dragons. This can be confirmed by the eight-legged Basilisks or such creatures as Gorgons (obviously not a mythological creature like the Medusa, but instead a newly made modern concept). There, the concept of intelligence is no more viable. So if you seek Heroes 3, you need to find a different game. Heroes 2 was not made like that. Yes, we have some unconventional creatures like the D&D Beholder, but this is a direct reference to Might&Magic VI, a game set in Enroth universe, and Heroes 2 have a little place for D&D from the very start, like the face of the Orc or the material of which the Golem is built. But what is essential here is the simplicity of concept. You cannot train Hydras to be Ph. D. Hydras. Neither you can equip them with a plated armor. They are already developed to their final form.

A situation where the upgradeability is dynamic and not every faction benefits in the same way from different map objects also seems to be more interesting gameplay-wise as well. This brings diversity and the factions are more different from each other in many ways. It is harder to balance, but it makes the game cooler. Starcraft is one of such examples.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 19, 2019 11:14 PM

pardon my french, but what's the reason behind SW being limited both graphically and mechanics to H2? First I thought this was destined to become H3 but with lovely H2 graphics - which we all enjoy, while allowing more mechanics extension, mods, custom scripts, then experience system and so on. If you seek pure H2, why not play H2 simply. Also H2 can be now fully modded, from what i read in CH forums.

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Reinventing the Steel
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 19, 2019 11:21 PM
Edited by orzie at 08:25, 20 Jan 2019.

H3SW is not limited mechanically to H2. I thought you played the v0.8.0 release.

In future, we are supposed to have our own magic system, secondary skill mechanics, artifacts, and other stuff. That should answer your question even if you forget the presence of 2(maybe even 3) new factions, the functionality of the map editor, and other stuff.

Consider this as a hybrid, an expansion to Heroes 2 spiritually and a sequel functionally. Both games have their flaws, and Heroes 2 has many, but the visual design should not suffer. Upgrades for all creatures is not about Heroes 2 atmosphere completely, and the 2013 beta definitely did not feel like Heroes 2 because of that.

P. S. I'll allow myself a slight pike and just add a line "then go and see how many Heroes 2 mods appear in the next 10 years". The sad truth is that Heroes 2 modding is not required for wider audiences. This game, as I said above, has a lot of flaws, and there is a reason why people don't play it as much as Heroes 3. Only if you dislike 7 slots I would understand abandoning potential gameplay of H3SW in future. But it is impossible to satisfy everyone, and personally, I wouldn't like to go against myself in such cases. I actually want to play the game I participate in the development of.
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Planewalker
Planewalker

Tavern Dweller
posted January 21, 2019 07:53 AM

To me, this feels like a big expansion pack, and I really prefer that it remain in that spirit. It's the same reason I love HotA so much. It feels like a legitimate, substantial expansion to the original game without altering its feel.

It's rather like how H2 was a rebuild of H1 but with improvements. H3SW feels like what H3 would have been if the same design strategy was used to create H3 after H2.
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Kivo
Kivo


Famous Hero
posted January 22, 2019 08:38 PM

Salamandre said:
pardon my french, but what's the reason behind SW being limited both graphically and mechanics to H2? First I thought this was destined to become H3 but with lovely H2 graphics - which we all enjoy, while allowing more mechanics extension, mods, custom scripts, then experience system and so on. If you seek pure H2, why not play H2 simply. Also H2 can be now fully modded, from what i read in CH forums.


Have you even played the mod? Just because not all the creatures have an upgrade it doesn't mean the mod is limited to H2 mechanics as well lol

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Reinventing the Steel
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 22, 2019 09:16 PM

Salamandre in fact did. But, for some people Heroes 2 is in different aspects of the game, this is true. For me personally, it's mainly in the visuals and sounds, the fast-paced gameplay and simplified mechanics. Some details matter, and some don't.

Concerning the mechanics, we might probably do something about the WAIT button in future. The complication there is in the AI behaviour which is supposed to use it in the vanilla game.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 22, 2019 09:31 PM

Kivo said:
Have you even played the mod?


yeah, sorry, I was just curious about the reason behind. I know how it feels, one spends years to make a mod then lurkers constantly run their mouth about "why you did this", "I don't like that", its common behavior. Mine was just curiosity

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted January 27, 2019 04:37 PM
Edited by RerryR at 16:28, 16 Feb 2019.

For me, the Succession Wars Mod was always considered to be Heroes2 content with the additions and options WoG gives us. Meaning that I don't want to miss out the features of H3/ERA. The current 0.8 Beta does a good job in that regard but I think some features/tweaks are missing.
So I sat down the whole weekend and created a script pack which contains my personal favorites secondary skill enhancements and converted them to work together with TSW mod. This is, of course, my very personal likings but I think others might like it to.

The Aim of the Mod is to make every secondary skill equally good or at least worth picking with your main Hero.
This is archived by making several improvements to secondary skills in the Succession Wars Mod. I will restore my favorite tweaks from WoG and bring in some new.

Improvements:

0 Pathfinding   - +1 Speed in the first battle round and small bonus movement after fighting
1 Archery       - No change needed
2 Logistics     - +1 Speed in the first battle round
3 Scouting      - Chance for random bonus each step (improved version)
4 Diplomacy     - No change needed (disabled because bugged 0.8 Beta)
5 Navigation    - +1,2,3 to attack and defense when in battles
6 Leadership    - 1%,2%,3% army growth per week
7 Wisdom        - Chance for critical spells (+50% damage)
8 Mysticism     - Improvements for Spells before combat
9 Luck          - Added small chance for battle bonus
10 Ballistics   - +5 attack in a siege battle
11 Eagle Eye    - Magic Artillery (Shoots at Enemy with your SP)
12 Necromancy   - No change needed
13 Estates      - collect resources/gold after winning fights
14 Fire Magic   - Extra Cast with all four Schools at expert
15 Air Magic    - Extra Cast with all four Schools at expert
16 Water Magic  - Extra Cast with all four Schools at expert
17 Earth Magic  - Extra Cast with all four Schools at expert
18 Scholar      - Spell Trainer improvement
19 Tactics      - +2 Speed for all units. Disables Tactics
20 Artillery    - Shoots enemies prior to battle
21 Learning     - Chance for primary skill point each level up
22 Offence      - No change needed
23 Armorer      - No change needed
24 Intelligence - Spell points added to magic damage 15%,30%,50%
25 Sorcery      - Activates Improved Spells
26 Resistance   - Adds Golem-like resistance 8%,16%,25%
27 First Aid    - Tent revives dead troops after combat and +4%,6%,10%  HP for all units (min.+1HP)

With these options, there are no more crappy skills in my opinion. What do you think?

You can install the package with one mod, no need to hassle with WoG options. I made sure everything works. Only thing is you need to run TSW under ERA 2.7. In the readme, you find an explanation how to do that.
I recommend activating Neutral Units difficulty to compensate for stronger heroes.
If you don't like some changes (which is understandable) just open the erm editor and delete the corresponding passage with the changes or look in the Data folder and delete a script file entirely, or ask me

Updated to v1.1:
added Eagle Eye and fixed Ballistics

Download: https://goo.gl/G5dFhK

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Rakso
Rakso


Adventuring Hero
posted January 30, 2019 03:44 PM

If anyone's curious you can play the mod on multiplayer through Gameranger or Hamachi, as I've did that with my friends over this livestream: LINK
There won't be any simultaneous turns option tho, and only regular maps available for playthrought.

Also You could play the mod on self-generated templates such as Jebuss Cross without issues, but it would require to massively modify the Objects.txt file in SOD or EdObjcts.txt for HotA(as HotA is using WoG content inside it, only modified to work differently).

There should be removed tho all of the yet unused in the mod content from display in the editor, and all the red squares and yellow squares should be modified correctly based on the object type and subtype.

Why? Beacuse the random maps are generated through using the regular map editor, so that if an object appears or doesn't appear on the map editor user interface, depends if it'll also be appearing on the generated map. For example: if I disable the Learning Stone from display in the editor, then all of the maps I'll be generating won't have any learning stones on them.

For better undestanding of the Objects.txt

Once the .txt will be modified correctly to fit the Succession Wars mod, but for HotA or SOD, then random maps generated in HotA or SOD .h3m files can be moved to the proper maps folder in the SW mod, and all of You can enjoy playing the modification on RMG templates supporting the mod without issues.

Cheers!

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Reinventing the Steel
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 30, 2019 11:04 PM
Edited by orzie at 23:07, 30 Jan 2019.

Thanks for the info.

In the upcoming v0.8.1 update, which is going to be released on 1st of February, we implemented the custom template feature for HD Mod, so there will be no need in experimenting with the Objects.txt file.
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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Reinventing the Steel
HC SUPPORTER
posted February 02, 2019 12:23 AM
Edited by orzie at 00:24, 02 Feb 2019.

Update v0.8.1 is available for download.

Download:
Download the mod from Mod Database
Download the mod from Dropbox
Download the mod from Google Drive

Installation:
1. Download H3SW v0.8.1 installer.
2. Unpack the modification to the game directory.
3. Launch h3sw.exe for the game and h3swmaped.exe for the map editor.

Key changes:
[!] Fixed crashes caused by Diplomacy and Eagle Eye skills
[!] Fixed crash caused by hovering the cursor over Crystal Garden
[!] Diplomacy skill mechanics now fully implemented. Fixed skill effects for Estates, Learning, Sorcery, Necromancy
[!] Fixed WINGRAPH.CPP and Assert violation errors occuring at start of h3sw.exe
[!] Fixed crash caused by AI malfunction on enemy turn
[!] Fixed bug with Knight creature stacks appearing from nowhere in AI controlled garrisons
[!] Implemented proper Dragon building/upgrade mechanics
[!] Changed garrisons/rewards for Creature Banks
[!] Fixed Spell Scrolls to be functional
[!] All castles now have access to 5 spell levels
[!] Improved creature generation mechanics for random maps
[+] Added/improved new graphics for some map objects and Finbros the Barbarian
[+] Added more new sounds to replace Heroes 3 sounds
[!] Player won't be able to start game as Heretic now
[!] Restricted Heretic class will appear much less on random maps now
[!] Cursed artifacts (except Arm of the Martyr) now are not wearable
[!] Changed graphics for Movement/Mana scales
[!] Changed movement speed coefficients for heroes according to Heroes 3 mechanics
[!][HD] Added the custom template and custom alliance features for random maps
[!][HD] HD Settings now must be changed directly in era.ini file in the mod directory
[!] Other changes and improvements

For complete changelog, HD Mod recommendations and settings please visit our official forums:
H3SW v0.8.1 beta update topic on Forums of Enroth

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Planewalker
Planewalker

Tavern Dweller
posted February 05, 2019 04:54 PM

This is awesome. Glad to not have hordes of crossbowmen pop up out of nowhere.

Really enjoying all the maps you put together. Props for putting H1 maps in here -- I have actually never played them before. It was a nice touch.
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exodustpa
exodustpa


Hired Hero
posted February 07, 2019 11:59 AM

orzie said:
Update v0.8.1 is available for download.

Download:
Download the mod from Mod Database
Download the mod from Dropbox
Download the mod from Google Drive

Installation:
1. Download H3SW v0.8.1 installer.
2. Unpack the modification to the game directory.
3. Launch h3sw.exe for the game and h3swmaped.exe for the map editor.

Key changes:
[!] Fixed crashes caused by Diplomacy and Eagle Eye skills
[!] Fixed crash caused by hovering the cursor over Crystal Garden
[!] Diplomacy skill mechanics now fully implemented. Fixed skill effects for Estates, Learning, Sorcery, Necromancy
[!] Fixed WINGRAPH.CPP and Assert violation errors occuring at start of h3sw.exe
[!] Fixed crash caused by AI malfunction on enemy turn
[!] Fixed bug with Knight creature stacks appearing from nowhere in AI controlled garrisons
[!] Implemented proper Dragon building/upgrade mechanics
[!] Changed garrisons/rewards for Creature Banks
[!] Fixed Spell Scrolls to be functional
[!] All castles now have access to 5 spell levels
[!] Improved creature generation mechanics for random maps
[+] Added/improved new graphics for some map objects and Finbros the Barbarian
[+] Added more new sounds to replace Heroes 3 sounds
[!] Player won't be able to start game as Heretic now
[!] Restricted Heretic class will appear much less on random maps now
[!] Cursed artifacts (except Arm of the Martyr) now are not wearable
[!] Changed graphics for Movement/Mana scales
[!] Changed movement speed coefficients for heroes according to Heroes 3 mechanics
[!][HD] Added the custom template and custom alliance features for random maps
[!][HD] HD Settings now must be changed directly in era.ini file in the mod directory
[!] Other changes and improvements

For complete changelog, HD Mod recommendations and settings please visit our official forums:
H3SW v0.8.1 beta update topic on Forums of Enroth


Loving this patch, im finally able to play the game without much crashes and such.

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Reinventing the Steel
HC SUPPORTER
posted February 07, 2019 04:15 PM

Many of these crashes might have come not from the mod, but from your installation and HD Mod settings. Especially if they are not included in the short changelog.

Still, it seems that we found out how to remove the long-lingering EIP=0x004FB282 crash which still exists in v0.8.1. It occurs often when you enter the Necromancer castle, most probably due to the memory leak which then may cause crashes by literally any action in the game that addresses the graphical resources of the game. If you meet a crash window with this address, you will know that you need to reload AUTOSAVE.

I hope that we already have the problem fixed for v0.8.2 update.

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exodustpa
exodustpa


Hired Hero
posted February 10, 2019 03:09 PM

The crashes i encountered mainly was the crystal garden one plus random crashes on AI turns.

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orzie
orzie


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Reinventing the Steel
HC SUPPORTER
posted February 10, 2019 09:37 PM

The Crystal Garden crash should not be present anymore starting from v0.8.1 update.

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tupaz
tupaz


Hired Hero
posted February 11, 2019 12:29 AM

I'm having fun with this mod
it gave me exactly heroes 2 feeling that I loved so much, yes gameplay is simple compared to H3 WoG, maybe few features that not unbalance the gameplay can be implemented... I have no idea.
Anyway so far only experienced randomly CTD while playing necro town
also the description of the golden goose artifact it says 20.000, but it really gave 10.000 gold per turn.

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Planewalker
Planewalker

Tavern Dweller
posted February 13, 2019 07:46 AM

Orzie, how did you get all these maps in the scenario list? Painstaking replication? I'm pretty impressed.
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DonCanardo
DonCanardo


Hired Hero
posted February 13, 2019 08:47 PM
Edited by DonCanardo at 21:05, 13 Feb 2019.

I am having so much fun playing this version.
Only had one necro town crash in 10+ games so far.
Great job on the underground theme, it really has a heroes 2 feel, although I found the melody can be a bit repetitive.

I like that you gave warlock dirt as native terrain, I think it fits well. This way there are 2 grass factions and 2 dirt factions, which makes those terrain appearing more often on random maps, I think that's a very good thing.

On that note, I would prefer to give snow lands back to wizard, and Rough lands back to Barbarian, that way we would have a good balance between snow and desert rather than always having lots of desert on random maps.

It's not only for the esthetic/diversity of the maps but for the gameplay aswell as desert heavy maps give more of an advantage to Barbarian and Dervish than grass/dirt heavy maps give to their respective factions (because of map movement on top of battlefield speed bonus).

For these reasons i think that hard terrains should only have one native faction per type.

Anyways, again, fantastic job so far on this mod !


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