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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Isn't Castle one of the strongest town?
Thread: Isn't Castle one of the strongest town? This thread is 15 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted July 29, 2019 11:55 AM
Edited by Elvin at 11:56, 29 Jul 2019.

The difference of taking down a challenging garrison or neutral one or two weeks earlier is not even close. That is what separates the good players(or the exploiters in certain cases..) from the rest.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted July 29, 2019 12:04 PM
Edited by Maurice at 12:05, 29 Jul 2019.

monere said:
Maybe not the town economy management, but it will still challenge the creeping because you'll still have to defeat the same mobs, whether it's now or later. If it's later they're just gonna increase in numbers but the challenge will still be there


Stacks don't grow as fast as the troops you generate in your Towns. Unless your economic buildup is so slow that you can't advance your Towns fast enough, your Heroes and the armies they carry will start to outgrow neutral stacks eventually. Fights that are challenging at the start will be easy a few weeks later.
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted July 29, 2019 01:06 PM

You may both be right, but I'll stand behind my point that I can become a pro player if I want to. But that will not happen anytime soon, and I'll continue to play noobish because that's how I like it

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted July 29, 2019 01:18 PM

No sense not enjoying your favourite playstyle on single. But 10 years in single cannot give you the same growth as 10 days in multiplayer and it takes more than that to become good..
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 29, 2019 05:54 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 17:54, 29 Jul 2019.

monere said:
You may both be right, but I'll stand behind my point that I can become a pro player if I want to. But that will not happen anytime soon, and I'll continue to play noobish because that's how I like it


Since there are no tournaments for money (correct me if I'm wrong ), you cannot become pro - professional - at the game at all. But you can become a great player in time. However, you need to adapt. You won't progress by throwing tantrums about people tryharding, stuff being imbalanced, you not liking particular strategies..

In the age of twitch and live streams, many people just try to parrot whatever strategies great players come up with. I firmly believe that in any game you can achieve a lot more success if you understand the mechanics underneath, without mimicking others at all. My approach is old school. Most impatient youngsters just head on to youtube/twitch then begin repeating mindlessly, not just in HoMM, but in any competitive game there is.

This is a dangerous road to take. You become reliant on others.
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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted July 29, 2019 07:53 PM

Maurice said:
monere said:
Maybe not the town economy management, but it will still challenge the creeping because you'll still have to defeat the same mobs, whether it's now or later. If it's later they're just gonna increase in numbers but the challenge will still be there


Stacks don't grow as fast as the troops you generate in your Towns. Unless your economic buildup is so slow that you can't advance your Towns fast enough, your Heroes and the armies they carry will start to outgrow neutral stacks eventually. Fights that are challenging at the start will be easy a few weeks later.
Isn't there a point which stacks can reach where their growth becomes exponential and actually out grows a fully upgraded town's growth?
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted July 29, 2019 08:57 PM

Absolutely, it's an exponential growth. It tops off at 4000 units in the stack, in an unmodded game. Difficult stacks start off with a relative high number with absolute slow growth, while Town growth is faster - but that's a linear growth. Eventually, those stacks will indeed grow faster. You will either need to capture more Towns to bolster your armies further and faster, or build up your armies and bide your time until you can defeat them at 4000 units of strength.
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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted July 30, 2019 04:23 AM

Thanks for the new knowledge Maurice! I also googled it and I get what you mean. Town growth is linear with set numbers, but stacks growth is based on a percentage of the current stack.

It's cool to see the math and how it works.
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted July 30, 2019 05:54 PM

Quote:
But you can become a great player in time
I am a great player (I know how to play against other people, I've done it weekly for 2 years between 2000 and 2002, and even though I have lost 60-70% of the games against my friend, I did pull some wins, and that's been 20 years ago when I was knowing way less about H3 than today. Today, if I put all of the knowledge I've acquired over the years to use I would probably beat the best of the best at this game... occasionally. But I'd be able to defeat them nonetheless with a little practice of the same boring maps they play in competitive tournaments. I just choose not to, because I don't like that style of play. I like taking my time to clear out the map completely first, build my armies, get all of the arties and spells that I want, and so on)

Quote:
However, you need to adapt
nope. I don't need to adapt when I only play against the AI.

Quote:
You won't progress by throwing tantrums about people tryharding, stuff being imbalanced, you not liking particular strategies.
I may not be able to progress (but I don't want to do that anyway since I'm not playing against humans), but I can - and I DO - throw tantrums about all the things you said. And stuff IS being imbalanced in H3 (the necromancy skill, logistics specialists, diplomacy, casting DD 4x a day with expert Air magic, CotUK and so on). Also, I can - and I do - say that I'm not liking particular strategies. We live in a free world (well, it was free the last time I checked, not sure about it lately, though ) where freedom of speech is (still?) allowed

Quote:
I firmly believe that in any game you can achieve a lot more success if you understand the mechanics underneath
duh!

Quote:
This is a dangerous road to take. You become reliant on others
on their strategies, not on the people/players themselves. And relying on someone else's strategy - as long as it's a good (winning) strategy - is not wrong.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 31, 2019 09:46 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 09:50, 31 Jul 2019.

monere said:
Today, if I put all of the knowledge I've acquired over the years to use I would probably beat the best of the best at this game... occasionally.


I can ensure you that you would lose 100% of your games against the best of the best.

monere said:
Also, I can - and I do - say that I'm not liking particular strategies. We live in a free world (well, it was free the last time I checked, not sure about it lately, though ) where freedom of speech is (still?) allowed


Sure it is. You can even play with tier 1 units only or talk about how peasant is the best unit in the game. Don't expect to be treated seriously, though.

Uneducated trolling =/= valid opinions

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 31, 2019 05:58 PM

monere said:
I can - and I do - say that I'm not liking particular strategies. We live in a free world (well, it was free the last time I checked, not sure about it lately, though ) where freedom of speech is (still?) allowed

You can, it's a matter of taste.
But you can't say:
monere said:
I am a great player (...) Today, if I put all of the knowledge I've acquired over the years to use I would probably beat the best of the best at this game... occasionally.

Cause that is verifiably untrue. Just ask TheKnownWorld to accept the challenge, so we can watch it on YouTube without much ado. Guess he himself will assure you he is not the best of the best but I bet will be enough.


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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted July 31, 2019 10:48 PM

@doomforge... so, if I say that I can become one of the best H3 players in the world I'm speaking BS. But if you assure (it's "assure" by the way, not "ensure") me that I will lose - and you haven't even watched me play - it's all good. (@salamandre... see how people spin words to their liking? This is with regards to my last comment on the "porn films" thread)

No, man. You can't assure me of anything. You can eventually give an informed decision of whether or not I could become one of the best players in the world AFTER you watch me play against others. And not even then would you be able to assure me of anything because I might lose a game, two, 15, 50, or whatever. But eventually I will defeat a pro player, and then once more, and once more, and so on until I eventually become one of the best players in the world. Which is exactly what I've said: "with the knowledge I have acquired of H3 over the last 20 years, with my decent IQ and with a bit of practice I could become one of the best players in the world. I just choose not to"


@bloodsucker... why can't I say "I'm a great player"? Just because I'm not playing against other people? What if I play and win the first game based on luck? Am I then a great player? Or must I continuously waste my life playing multiplayer matches until you are satisfied with the number of matches that I've played before you can consider me a great player? How does this thing work? Because, as far as I know, a great player is a player that wins constantly, and I already do that, even if only against the AI. As a comparison, when I have first played this game in 1999 I have lost constantly to the AI. So, this means that back then I've not been a great player, but now that I beat the AI most of the time I am a great player by definition. Right? Or are you considering "great players" only the few that know how to exploit the intimate mechanics of the game?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted July 31, 2019 10:55 PM

At this point I'm not sure if trolling or serious but I'll bite. Arrange a game vs a decent player, not necessarily too good. We'll see if you get trashed as much as we expect or not
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 31, 2019 11:12 PM

monere said:
Today, if I put all of the knowledge I've acquired over the years to use I would probably beat the best of the best at this game... occasionally.


I thought same when I joined H2 tournaments, back in time. Didn't succeed well, for a while. The thing is, multiplayer is some unique experience, with unique strategies as well, then there are people who have different styles so you have to adapt. Unless you have Einstein IQ, there is no way you can beat an experienced player just from start. Need to acquire experience, train, test and fail, have tons of free time, then also being ugly so no girlfriend.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted July 31, 2019 11:29 PM

Elvin... I'm not trolling, but I don't have time to play, either. I just got to Germany 3 weeks ago where I'm trying to make some money so I can live and hopefully finish the game I'm working on. So, this is the stage where I'm at right now, so no time for H3 (I don't even have a good computer, or internet for that matter since I've been constantly relocating for the last 8-9 months)

Salamandre.... you don't need Einstein's IQ to beat a decent player (whatever "decent" means, because I consider myself decent, too). Also, I am ugly and I have no girlfriend, so this problem is solved

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 01, 2019 01:59 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 01:59, 01 Aug 2019.

And I can say I'm the fastest male runner in this house at the moment even if yesterday, to my shame, I saw two old ladies passing me while gossiping.
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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted August 01, 2019 03:43 AM

Can you build Capitol and 7.th dwelling in week 3 against 7 allied AI in %200 difficulty?

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 01, 2019 05:41 AM

Lol sal.

Monere, I used to think I was a decent H5 player when I first started playing in toh. Then I had a reality check ^^ You will never know where you stand before you play an online veteran(or a few) and the one thing that is pretty much guaranteed is that you will be trashed repeatedly. Feeling decent at single cannot begin to prepare you for multi.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 01, 2019 05:51 AM

Otuken said:
Can you build Capitol and 7.th dwelling in week 3 against 7 allied AI in %200 difficulty?

Sounds like a pretty arbitrary challenge. Small/medium/large? Water content? Poor/rich resources? Random or custom map? Blind or having replayed the map?

And besides, 200% difficulty is neither fair for all factions nor the 'one true play'.
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 01, 2019 09:44 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 09:59, 01 Aug 2019.

monere said:
@doomforge... so, if I say that I can become one of the best H3 players in the world I'm speaking BS. But if you assure (it's "assure" by the way, not "ensure") me that I will lose - and you haven't even watched me play - it's all good.


It is. "Great" is earned, not self-proclaimed. If you didn't play against good players and didn't beat them, you're not a great player, just someone with a big ego and no humility. Beat them and we will talk.

Do I really need to spell out for you how ridiculous this is? I.e. like me saying I'm the best golfer in the world. Who the heck is tiger woods? I'd smoke him with a blindfold on. Hey, you can't say I wouldn't! You didn't see me play yet!!!!

Lol.

And yeah, I know what troll logic you will apply here - that without seeing, you can't know. Yeah, thing is, you haven't seen your play against actually good players either, so you're guessing as much as I do. And it's rather rational to assume you cannot beat people who play this game for years, competitively, on the same map over and over - being not familiar with "meta" yourself and without practice. In other words, my blind statements are pretty rational, yours aren't.

Salamandre said:
no girlfriend.


But what if your girlfriend plays HoMM? Mine does

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