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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Isn't Castle one of the strongest town?
Thread: Isn't Castle one of the strongest town? This thread is 13 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted July 04, 2019 10:58 PM

I cannot argue with that logic.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 04, 2019 11:08 PM

AlfWithCake said:
 I agree, Arch Devils are good. You just get Strike and Return+Ignore 40% defence before month 2 and kill enemies. You then need Fire Immunity (excluding befecial) before Ajit and check if Dace has any hatred towards Arch Devils and wait for next week if it's the case. Demon farming only starts month 3+ and it will be a long time before you have 20k+ demons with 600 damage, and you still have Sultan Efreets with resurrection and 2 bonus casts as a meat shield, so you're kinda forced to use Arch Devils anyway.


*Scratches head* Conclusion = WUT?!?

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Revolut1oN
Revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted July 04, 2019 11:32 PM

TEW IV, is a map.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted July 05, 2019 02:39 AM

Hit&Run never work in full scale battles. If you wait then enemy will immiadetaly cast damage spells to them and enemy archers will quickly melt their low HP before they even touch enemies. Hitting enemies isn't big deal either due to very low damage output.

If we include magic then what makes Chaos Hydra worse than ArchDevil which is flat superior version of Archdevil besides speed? Cheaper dwelling, cheaper unit, no enemy retaliation ability plus attacking to all adjacent enemies and more HP?

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted July 05, 2019 12:26 PM

For one thing, Arch Devils teleport around the battlefield, so blockades and obstacles are irrelevant to them with regards to moving around. Hydras are stuck to moving on foot to wherever they want to go.
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted July 05, 2019 12:51 PM

Maurice said:
For one thing, Arch Devils teleport around the battlefield, so blockades and obstacles are irrelevant to them with regards to moving around. Hydras are stuck to moving on foot to wherever they want to go.

teleport
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 05, 2019 03:49 PM

Zenofex said:
The Chaos Hydras cost 3500 and they suck.


I wouldn't go as far. If anything, their base dwelling is a tad too costly. Hydras themselves are fine.

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Supreme Hero
Thread Destroyer
posted July 05, 2019 05:17 PM

monere said:
Maurice said:
For one thing, Arch Devils teleport around the battlefield, so blockades and obstacles are irrelevant to them with regards to moving around. Hydras are stuck to moving on foot to wherever they want to go.

teleport
Remove Obstacle.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 05, 2019 05:29 PM

Oddball13579 said:
monere said:
Maurice said:
For one thing, Arch Devils teleport around the battlefield, so blockades and obstacles are irrelevant to them with regards to moving around. Hydras are stuck to moving on foot to wherever they want to go.

teleport
Remove Obstacle.

Haste and/or Prayer.
There is no spell to make a unit fly in combat though, guess that could be interesting and powerful...

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AlfWithCake
AlfWithCake


Known Hero
posted July 05, 2019 06:08 PM

phoenix4ever said:

There is no spell to make a unit fly in combat though, guess that could be interesting and powerful...

vcmi

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 05, 2019 06:29 PM

Quote:
I wouldn't go as far. If anything, their base dwelling is a tad too costly. Hydras themselves are fine.
Mostly in theory. Their speed makes you a snail on the adventure map and in battles it's the main reason why they can't use their full potential. And their damage output is terrible. 18 Attack for level 7 and unimpressive damage range at best... Even if you play around with Teleport they still leave something to be desired for that cost. And when slowed they're practically obstacles.
Quote:
Hit&Run never work in full scale battles. If you wait then enemy will immiadetaly cast damage spells to them and enemy archers will quickly melt their low HP before they even touch enemies. Hitting enemies isn't big deal either due to very low damage output.
I'm beginning to wonder if you have ever played with Inferno against something which is not an AI. None of this is true.
Quote:
If we include magic then what makes Chaos Hydra worse than ArchDevil which is flat superior version of Archdevil besides speed?
Much better Attack and Defense (do you even know how these work by the way)? Ignores walls and obstacles? Doesn't slow you down on the adventure map? -2 Luck in HotA where you have negative Luck?

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted July 05, 2019 06:34 PM

Zenofex said:
18 Attack for level 7 and unimpressive damage range at best...


Doesn't matter that much if you can hit 2 targets (and that's not that hard) and there's still no retal. When you hit 2 targets, chaos hydras already outperform all tier 7s except archangels, ancient behemots attacking a 20+ DEF target and enraged Haspids. Once you hit 3 targets, their damage potential is unmatched.


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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 05, 2019 06:42 PM

Well, if you're allowed to hit multiple targets with them, they're OK. Not great, just OK. Low level creatures take some punch but high-Defense level 7s don't really feel it. Nevertheless, I agree that they can repay their price if you manage to do that several times a battle. In scenarios where the opponent doesn't let you score such hits against important targets they aren't much more than one decent pool of HP to drain (which could be annoying if they're led by Tazar but still). What I don't like about them the most is that they force you crawl on the adventure map, even with Logistics.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted July 05, 2019 07:01 PM

Chaining also works with fast armies, only better. And everything you can do with Hydras against the neutrals, you can do 3 times better with Devils.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted July 05, 2019 09:39 PM

Ok. I just want to see a solid explanation that how can Archdevils last longer and hit harder than Archangels, Dragons, Behemoths and Titans in full scale battles?

Do you say Archdevil is one of the best 7.th level creature?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 05, 2019 10:08 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 22:16, 05 Jul 2019.

Just play Heroes in challenging conditions (vs 7 allied AI or hard custom maps and so on), no explanation can substitute to first hand experience. You can start with To kill for power since it requires playing with inferno and is quite tricky. Great map too.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted July 05, 2019 10:35 PM

I almost always play with Inferno in 1v7 %200 XL random maps. Devils are good as unupgraded 7.th level creature but I almost never upgrade them unless I am very rich and have a lot captured towns. Game becomes somewhat already broken with speels like mass haste, slow, resurrection, Town portal, dd, berkers before upgrading them.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 05, 2019 11:10 PM

Otuken said:
I almost never upgrade them

Maybe that is your problem?

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted July 05, 2019 11:31 PM
Edited by Otuken at 23:33, 05 Jul 2019.

phoenix4ever said:
Otuken said:
I almost never upgrade them

Maybe that is your problem?


Really not much bang for the buck with devil upgrade considering other towns. The trick of this town is enjoying having one of the best unupgraded army, turning lvl1-3 units into demons, trying to sieze other townns with efreets/devils and breaking dragon utopias with demon stack asap  hence I upgrade only Pit Fiends in the beginning and spend my money for having more demon instead of upgrading Devils.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 05, 2019 11:37 PM

You should really try to get all units upgraded imo, except maybe level 1-3 if you are converting those to Demons.
Money is usually not a problem if you try to capture Ramparts, pick gold from chests, especially in the beginning and try to learn Estates with all secondary heroes.

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