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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Another Heroes 3 Mod
Thread: Another Heroes 3 Mod This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
BTB
BTB


Known Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted December 17, 2019 08:11 AM
Edited by BTB at 01:54, 11 Sep 2020.

Another Heroes 3 Mod

This is my gameplay/balance hack for Heroes 3, which changes quite a bit - far too much to list here. All of the changes are detailed in the Readme, linked below.

UPDATE - August 01: basically done with everything aside from campaigns (not started at all) and single maps (currently only three are available).

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692895170722660434/753765106776539156/ah3m.rar

The Readme is also mostly finished and documents everything the mod does in great detail:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692895170722660434/753713417927262329/Readme.txt

Also, I have a neat logo:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/692895170722660434/738150497768439858/ah3m_full.jpg

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted December 17, 2019 09:42 AM

Nice Nice, we always appreciate new mods.
For which platform are your ideas ERA, HOTA or VCMI?

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted December 17, 2019 09:45 AM

I don't know the answer to any of your concerns, so I'm not going to address those.

What I'll do instead - and which might upset you since you've posted this thread with the sensation that "I don't give a crap about any suggestions, I'll do whatever I want cause it's my mod" - is give my honest opinion on some of the changes you've made to the game. So...

1) Learning - giving experience is where the problem is with that skill, because either it gives too little experience (15% by default at maximum level, which many people on this forum have proved it means squat), or it gives too much experience (50% in your mod), in which case it makes the skill broken, no matter how you look at it. If give 50% experience at highest level makes this skill a TOP PRIORITY pick early on (when it matters the most), and players who are lucky to be offered this skill early in the game (first 2-3 level ups) will have a big advantage for the rest of the game. In a competitive match (since this is all that matters when it comes to balance) when players encounter each other and one of them has learning, while the other doesn't... the hero with learning will probably be 40-50% higher levels than the player without learning. If that's the case, I don't see how the non-learning player has any chance of defeating the other player in this case.

As I said, if learning gives experience points it's broken one way or another (no matter how much or little experience it gives). I recommend you remove this skill completely.

2) Logistics - logistics itself is not a skill that needs to be nerfed. 30% more movement speed is no problem. The logistics specialists on the other hand... now, those ARE a problem. I'm not gonna recommend anything in this case, because I can't figure out a good way to fix logistics specialists. As long as they level up they will accrue movement bonuses with each level, and this is where the problem is.

3) Spells - why the hell remove spells like forgetfulness, slayer, quicksand, prayer or even vision ??? Those spells are neither game breaker, nor useless (I have used vision and quicksand many times in my H3 games, hell, even forgetfulness has helped me kill cyclops and medusae early in the game when I have been unlucky with starting area (strong monsters guarding all of the entrances, like pack of cyclop kings day 1) ... I honestly don't understand why you removed these spells when they are so useful and so balanced. Much more useless is magic mirror for example, but you've kept that spell in the game.

As for the spells whose names I don't know, I'm not going to comment on those because... well, because I don't know them

Also on spells...

3a) You should swap tiers between Fly and Resurrection. Getting first to good artifacts is a bigger game breaker than not losing 2 naga queens in a tough battle, so Fly must be higher tier than Resurrection.

3b) Remove Water Walk from the list of spells since you also removed the summon/scuttle boat spells (which makes me assume that you never play with water-y maps), and move blind to level 3. Blind is one of the strongest (aka most spammed) spells in the game, so it makes sense to be tier 3

3c) Move Earthquake to tier 2 (that spell is really garbage... or, situational anyway, only working in sieges), and re-insert Prayer into the list. And since you've given equal weight to all magic schools, thus making Water Magic important, you can safely re-add Forgetfulness as a level 4 spell, too. With expert WM Forgetfulness is very good against all archers, especially against Titans if you also wear an artifact that denies mind spell immunity (I don't remember if there is such an artifact in H3, but if there isn't one someone should make one because it adds more choices to the game, and make Forgetfulness a better spell)

That's all... I think.
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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted December 17, 2019 09:56 AM
Edited by BTB at 09:59, 17 Dec 2019.

@Rerry this is all strictly vanilla I'm working with, not HOTA or VCMI.

monere said:
What I'll do instead - and which might upset you since you've posted this thread with the sensation that "I don't give a crap about any suggestions, I'll do whatever I want cause it's my mod" - is give my honest opinion on some of the changes you've made to the game. So...


Nah, feedback doesn't bother me one bit. Spend any time in my Discord server and people will be quick to tell you that I listen to pretty much anything anyone says and I take it into consideration, even if I don't end up agreeing with you.

Off-hand, I'd say you may be right about Learning. Kinda on the fence with Logistics as it is (although it should be noted that taking it down to maxing out at 20% is an effective nerf to specialists). I'd have to think more on the spells comments... though I'm not sure where you're seeing Magic Mirror - that's also one of the spells I cut.

RE: renamed spells

Air Shield -> Shield
Fire Shield -> Pain Reflection
Frost Ring -> Ice Blast
Precision -> Fate
View Air -> Wizard Eye
Teleport -> Jump


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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted December 17, 2019 10:15 AM

BTB said:
Nah, feedback doesn't bother me one bit. Spend any time in my Discord server and people will be quick to tell you that I listen to pretty much anything anyone says and I take it into consideration, even if I don't end up agreeing with you.

Off-hand, I'd say you may be right about Learning. Kinda on the fence with Logistics as it is (although it should be noted that taking it down to maxing out at 20% is an effective nerf to specialists). I'd have to think more on the spells comments... though I'm not sure where you're seeing Magic Mirror - that's also one of the spells I cut.

RE: renamed spells

Air Shield -> Shield
Fire Shield -> Pain Reflection
Frost Ring -> Ice Blast
Precision -> Fate
View Air -> Wizard Eye
Teleport -> Jump




oops, my mistake about magic mirror. I apologize

About precision vs fate. The name "precision" makes more sense than fate. Don't know why you had to rename that one
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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted December 17, 2019 10:20 AM

Fate was the name of the (essentially identical) spell in Might & Magic VII... a game which took up much more of my childhood than I'd care to admit.

But anyway, thanks for your response. (Almost) nothing up there is really set in stone yet and you've given me a couple of things to think about.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted December 17, 2019 10:45 AM

Always happy to help
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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted December 17, 2019 11:46 AM

monere said:

1) Learning - giving experience is where the problem is with that skill, because either it gives too little experience (15% by default at maximum level, which many people on this forum have proved it means squat), or it gives too much experience (50% in your mod), in which case it makes the skill broken, no matter how you look at it. If give 50% experience at highest level makes this skill a TOP PRIORITY pick early on (when it matters the most), and players who are lucky to be offered this skill early in the game (first 2-3 level ups) will have a big advantage for the rest of the game. In a competitive match (since this is all that matters when it comes to balance) when players encounter each other and one of them has learning, while the other doesn't... the hero with learning will probably be 40-50% higher levels than the player without learning. If that's the case, I don't see how the non-learning player has any chance of defeating the other player in this case.

As I said, if learning gives experience points it's broken one way or another (no matter how much or little experience it gives). I recommend you remove this skill completely.


I strongly disagree with this statement about Learning. Why not buff it?
You are arguing with multiplayer competitive gaming and PVP balance, while it is true that balancing will always orient to PVP multiplayer we don't know what the OP want to do with his mod. It is highly unlikely that OP wants to create a vanilla balance mulitplayer patch, and if so it has zero chance to succed because we already have HotA. So it is more likely hes modding for his own game and playstyle or just the fun of it, which is, in general, the best way to start modding and succeed. And if you do create the mod for your own, everything is allowed.

BTB said:

this is all strictly vanilla I'm working with, not HOTA or VCMI.

Why work with vanilla H3? Except for changing some txt files and hex editing a few values you are so limited in what you can do.
I recently read a quote which was like this: If you want to mod HotA with hex editing is like upgrading a car with a wood stock.

Use the ERA platform which is constantly developed with the purpose for modding! You have so many more possibilities there. You can even start from a vanilla H3 like game and apply your changes if you disagree with script options and WoG features. This is just my advice, I wish you good luck  

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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted December 17, 2019 11:53 AM
Edited by BTB at 11:56, 17 Dec 2019.

Honestly, the only reason I'm not working with anything else is that I'm really not aware of my other options. I've dug around the forums but, as I've said, the lack of a search functionality makes it really difficult for me to compile information.

Ultimately my decision is just going to be about the best/ideal way to distribute things. It'd be much easier to, say, hand the average player an .exe patch and a few modified files than to have them set up a framework to support whatever I'm doing.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted December 17, 2019 01:02 PM

Well, there is a search function for this forum, its just not so good. Every important thread is made "sticky", like the ERA II thread and corresponding mods for it. ERA II mods can be delivered very easy as zipped or exe files, switched on and off and don't interfere with any important folder files.
I don't claim that it is easy in the beginning to learn a new scripting language (ERM) but if you are serious in modding your Heroes game it is the best and most convenient way in the long run.

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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted December 17, 2019 01:26 PM
Edited by BTB at 13:27, 17 Dec 2019.

I am much more a designer than a programmer. I've been blessed in the past to have talented programmers working for me on my other projects doing all of the things that are beyond my capacity.

I'll look into ERA once I get everything I want to do finalized. Thanks for the advice.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 17, 2019 02:10 PM

Era has one of the best scripting manuals ever thus is available to almost anyone with working neurons. I realized that when trying scripting monster games as Civilization or Skyrim, their manuals are no where as good and complete.

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53lm
53lm


Hired Hero
posted December 17, 2019 04:50 PM




sod3.1
download


http://53lm.ys168.com/


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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted December 18, 2019 02:15 AM

I'm... very confused. What is this?

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted December 18, 2019 08:44 AM

BTB said:
I'm... very confused. What is this?
spam
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 18, 2019 09:06 AM

No, is a legit chinese mod for SoD. It has its own thread here.

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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted December 18, 2019 09:30 AM
Edited by BTB at 09:34, 18 Dec 2019.

Is there a glossary or a quick-reference guide for all of the different versions of the game and modding utilities around here?

As far as I know, there's...

The original game, which nobody actually owns without the expansions anymore.

SoD is apparently Shadow of Death... not sure why I see it being referred to separately from the complete version.

There's the HD(+?) mod, which is also a separate entity from the "official" HD re-release, which is of the flat-out original game and includes neither expansion.

There's there's Horn of the Abyss, which is an unofficial fan mod. That's the one that adds Cove and is apparently the most popular one.

I have no clue what VCMI or WoG (Wake of the Gods) are, and I'm still unclear as to what exactly ERA or its sequel are. I'm assuming it's an external utility of some sort?

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted December 18, 2019 09:53 AM

Salamandre said:
No, is a legit chinese mod for SoD. It has its own thread here.
the mod is legit alright, but the way it's been posted on this thread (a download link for something that has absolutely NOTHING to do with BTB's mod) is spam.
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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
Moist & Creamy
posted December 18, 2019 09:57 AM
Edited by BTB at 09:58, 18 Dec 2019.

Yes, I'd say you're both correct.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 18, 2019 10:53 AM

No, its probably because the language barrier. He saw you are inquiring about modding heroes and spells for SoD, he shows you his mod which does same things.

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