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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: New Upgrades Mod [Amethyst Edition] for ERA
Thread: New Upgrades Mod [Amethyst Edition] for ERA This thread is 13 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 · «PREV / NEXT»
TR4SPY
TR4SPY

Tavern Dweller
2b || !2b
posted April 08, 2020 03:48 PM

I have tried to test that mod in Multiplayer TCP/IP (same network LAN) and no luck.

Tested on ERA Gaming Build 2.9.12 (latest) + HD mod 5.0 RC80 + ERA Scripts  with yours Typhon mod 1.6.1 (latest). Both machines use same h3era HD.exe and it is a crash when loading the map.

NOTE: Only defaut mods are loaded on side which are [WOG, BattleSpeed,Spells Desc, WOG and ERA Scripts]. To the test I have only disabled/enabled Typhon mod.

Funny thing is that without your mod, both PC's can communicate over a chat in multiplayer lobby, but when mod is loaded the chat is not working. I guess somehow it collides with multiplayer functions?

I would like to investigate it more further so if anyone have any idea where to start fixing that issue it might be a huge step forward in ERA.

My guess is that somehow HD mod is making problems after loading the Typhon Mod or it might be ERA itself using same functions for multiplayer as the mod?

____________
An unknown chapter lies ahead. Chaos and infighting are inevitable. All that is certain is that Darkness is still ahead. But for now, for the first time... I look into the light with New Hope...

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VMaiko
VMaiko


Known Hero
posted April 08, 2020 06:45 PM

TR4SPY said:
I have tried to test that mod in Multiplayer TCP/IP (same network LAN) and no luck.

Tested on ERA Gaming Build 2.9.12 (latest) + HD mod 5.0 RC80 + ERA Scripts  with yours Typhon mod 1.6.1 (latest). Both machines use same h3era HD.exe and it is a crash when loading the map.

NOTE: Only defaut mods are loaded on side which are [WOG, BattleSpeed,Spells Desc, WOG and ERA Scripts]. To the test I have only disabled/enabled Typhon mod.

Funny thing is that without your mod, both PC's can communicate over a chat in multiplayer lobby, but when mod is loaded the chat is not working. I guess somehow it collides with multiplayer functions?

I would like to investigate it more further so if anyone have any idea where to start fixing that issue it might be a huge step forward in ERA.

My guess is that somehow HD mod is making problems after loading the Typhon Mod or it might be ERA itself using same functions for multiplayer as the mod?



Currently the mod isn't made for multiplayer games due to Typhon's source code not working for that purpose, also adding the scripts with which it's included.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted April 08, 2020 07:21 PM
Edited by RerryR at 19:29, 08 Apr 2020.

I know I sometimes sound repetitive, but I play nearly every evening multiplayer with Team Viewer (because F*** y Corona). We just make Hotseat game WHERE ARE NO RESTRICTIONS in scripts you can use and is way more stable then this emulated LAN snow. Also The software is free.

I know this option will not suite everyone but I just wanna drop it here once againÖ

Edit: my experience with Team Viewer is you need two clicks two connect, and ready. So if you can live with a bit of lag and are willing to reconnect from time to time, this is your best option. Ofc in hotseat y see ops screen. And you need a certain degree of trust to your partner, because you share your computer.
 

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TR4SPY
TR4SPY

Tavern Dweller
2b || !2b
posted April 08, 2020 09:27 PM

It is an option but Doesnt sound like long term Solution. There is a protocol for multiplayer on LAN that is a bit more comfortable so that is why I am thinking of helping implementing it working with mods.

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VMaiko
VMaiko


Known Hero
posted April 11, 2020 05:08 PM

Micro Update to v1.6.6

[*]Antichrists were disproportionately stronger than other units of the same level.
[*]Mirror of the Home-Way was replaced by Town Gate.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted April 13, 2020 11:47 AM
Edited by FirePaladin at 11:51, 13 Apr 2020.

Is this actually the thread of that totally imba mod? Before "balance" update, it was pretty ok. Now it's just an absurd mess which makes me question what have I installed. I think the level 7 units' upgrades should have the same stat ratio as their original upgrades. You can't just make an imp statistically stronger than a Halberdier after upgrade. Some units stats have insane gaps between them, along with way better abilities than others. Titans, Behemoths, Black Dragons (the upgrades, ofc), should all have same hp, for example (or just a 50 hp difference), and not a 1/2 ratio difference.

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VMaiko
VMaiko


Known Hero
posted April 13, 2020 04:54 PM

FirePaladin said:
Is this actually the thread of that totally imba mod? Before "balance" update, it was pretty ok. Now it's just an absurd mess which makes me question what have I installed. I think the level 7 units' upgrades should have the same stat ratio as their original upgrades. You can't just make an imp statistically stronger than a Halberdier after upgrade. Some units stats have insane gaps between them, along with way better abilities than others. Titans, Behemoths, Black Dragons (the upgrades, ofc), should all have same hp, for example (or just a 50 hp difference), and not a 1/2 ratio difference.


I understand your displeasure, but can you propose a better balance? It is difficult to make a perfect balance between the creatures, it would be great if the community supports the mod proposing what is closest to the "perfect balance".
This balance update, was proposed by Tupaz, I have made some regularities, and I do not think that a "Familiar" or "Hellish Plague" is stronger even than a Halberdier, perhaps numerically yes, but in statistics not, check it yourself, a Familiar has 3 attk, 2 def, 2 hp, 7 spd, dmg 1-1, while a Halberdier has 6 attk, 10 def, 5 hp, 5 spd, dmg 1-2.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted April 13, 2020 09:04 PM

Lol, sorry about the Familiar - Halberdier thing, I didn't mean it like that: I just wanted to show the difference between certain level 7s (especially Master Archangels, which can be called the Halberdier) as they are right now: M. Archangels get absolutely owned. And a good start is basically keeping a similar stats ratio between the (level 7) units as it was before (and just like it was for the first upgrade), since it's really confusing how the units come with such great hp or att differences especially (both in raw numbers and ratios).

Anyway, gonna try and see what combinations of stats are more balanced, while still letting the game be interesting.

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tupaz
tupaz


Adventuring Hero
posted April 13, 2020 10:24 PM

FirePaladin said:
Is this actually the thread of that totally imba mod? Before "balance" update, it was pretty ok. Now it's just an absurd mess which makes me question what have I installed. I think the level 7 units' upgrades should have the same stat ratio as their original upgrades. You can't just make an imp statistically stronger than a Halberdier after upgrade. Some units stats have insane gaps between them, along with way better abilities than others. Titans, Behemoths, Black Dragons (the upgrades, ofc), should all have same hp, for example (or just a 50 hp difference), and not a 1/2 ratio difference.



The idea behind those modifications was to increase the realism and radically change the way to face up the game, I understand that many may like it while many others may not, but I assure you most of the units got more balanced compared to the original version of the Mod. If you consider only HP as stat you will not get the full idea, you have to take into account also attack, defense, damage, speed, ability to fly or shoot and growth rate as basic stats.
But I still didn't had the opportunity to also make the necessary changes to units skills, and that is where the tweaks need to be done to make the game really balanced, it is a hard task cause you have to calculate the weight of every unit skill but also all the skills  they get with experience.
For example, can you say if "attack twice" is better than "no enemy retaliation"? and how much is the weight that favor the first against the latter or the other way around?
I'm preparing some spreadsheets to help me to do this, and if VMaiko gives me carte blanche and agrees with all the changes I want to make I promise the Mod will be more balanced than ever, of course since this is his Mod he will have the last word on it.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted April 13, 2020 10:30 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 22:36, 13 Apr 2020.

@tupaz

What realism is there in fantasy (at least for now)? And more balanced than the original mod is totally something else: from top-notch units, the Archangels became the weakest. Also, 1000 hp for no-retal and return? 65 att for no retal and other stuff? Look at this guy's channel; his more recent ~3 videos are absurd, all of them with the balanced version of this mod.

But really, a difference of 1/2 hp between melee units both with no retal is imba (also at same level). You can totally nuke the one with less hp in no time, compared to the other one, even if the first has 2 attacks, no retal and other stuff.

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tupaz
tupaz


Adventuring Hero
posted April 13, 2020 11:05 PM
Edited by tupaz at 01:02, 14 Apr 2020.

FirePaladin said:
@tupaz

What realism is there in fantasy (at least for now)? And more balanced than the original mod is totally something else: from top-notch units, the Archangels became the weakest. Also, 1000 hp for no-retal and return? 65 att for no retal and other stuff? Look at this guy's channel; his more recent ~3 videos are absurd, all of them with the balanced version of this mod.

But really, a difference of 1/2 hp between melee units both with no retal is imba (also at same level). You can totally nuke the one with less hp in no time, compared to the other one, even if the first has 2 attacks, no retal and other stuff.


I already watched all his videos, and as you can see from previous videos the mod was not balanced already since first versions.
But I also know that at actual state the mod is not balanced without also making the necessary modifyng to units skills. There is where we need to make the necessary changes to make the game really balanced, after all even Antichrists with "only" 400 HP can be OP if they got OP skills.

You have to consider that the general idea to make a 1 vs 1 battle is wrong cause you have to take into account the usefulness of the unit in a full battle. Hydras, for example, will be more useful if there are no obstacles and the enemy got many stacks, while Archangels will be more useful if they have the chance to resurrect fallen units.
A slow unit may be useless in a battle if it can't reach their enemy while fast creature Flying/shooting will have usually more chances to do damage.

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VMaiko
VMaiko


Known Hero
posted April 13, 2020 11:05 PM

tupaz On balance I give you full permission to do it, but don't make the mod as realistic as removing double shot from crossbowmen since they have an upgraded weapon. Many will have a bad taste in their mouth if they don't get a Castle unit that can double shot.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted April 13, 2020 11:34 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 11:57, 14 Apr 2020.

tupaz

True, but other 1v1 fights before didn't have such a huge raw power gap. These gaps can easily be abused, no matter what skills, etc. Remember the Wyvern Monarchs.

Edit: Anyway guys, sorry if I seemed a little too rude, but there really are some gaps in stats that I think should be fixed.

Edit 2: Ok, now the mod is really imba if only the devils win all battles with a clear advantage.

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tupaz
tupaz


Adventuring Hero
posted April 14, 2020 01:33 PM

FirePaladin said:
tupaz

True, but other 1v1 fights before didn't have such a huge raw power gap. These gaps can easily be abused, no matter what skills, etc. Remember the Wyvern Monarchs.

Edit: Anyway guys, sorry if I seemed a little too rude, but there really are some gaps in stats that I think should be fixed.


No problem, constructive suggestions are always welcome
For now I can say that there are a lot of calculations to determine the actual creature stats and if a creature got a lot of HP to counter this advantage it lack in damage, defense, speed or other factors, almost nothing is random and belive it or not if you strip all the creatures of their skills they will be even balanced on these 1 vs 1 fights.
But i have to admit this got many weaknesses and thanks to your suggestions I'm already considering to reduce the HP gap between creatures of the same level, you will not get disappointed with the new changes, it will require me some time to do all the calculations again though.



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Strigo
Strigo


Hired Hero
posted April 14, 2020 04:37 PM
Edited by Strigo at 16:38, 14 Apr 2020.

Some feedback & suggestions. It's not my intention to be harsh or to sh1t on the mod, far away from that. I'm always glad that people are keeping this game alive with mods. Those being said here we go:

i'd suggest better naming for creatures, most names are boring and meh

Some names are just bad:
* Red bones dragon
* Sharp-Horned Demon
* Pure Diamond Dragon

Why not something like:
* Spectral Dragon instead of Red bones dragon
* Archdemon instead of Sharp-Horned Demon
* Paladin instead of Holy Champion
* Orthos instead of Astral Cerberus
* etc...

Some upgrades are questionable at best, a lot of illogical choices, like cyclopi upgrading into mammoths, gnolls becoming centaurs (centagnolls is another bad name imo). Feels a bit like they were just added for the sake of being added.

the graphics are more or less a mixed bag, I'd recommend to ditch assets from other games that stick out like a sore thumb (pikeman 2nd upg, naga 2nd upg, black knight 2nd upg)

Some recolors are fine here and there, but I feel like it's a bit overdone and some color schemes are pretty bad. With the previous points that I made I strongly suggest to think more or search more when making upgrades, they need to feel like an upgrade, not a cheap paint job or a different creature altogether.

The icons are pretty awful for most creatures, even if they are recolors, that doesn't mean you have to recolor the portrait too. Get the faction's background and find a good def frame for your creature and use that instead. Also some creatures don't even have the background for their faction.

As for the balance, I'm sorry, but it's absolute garbage. Why do lvl 7 get 3rd upgrades? The gap is becoming waaaaaaay to large. Lvl 12 creatures as upgrades are nonsensical, not only they are disgustingly OP, they also have too many abilities. What I recommend is REMOVING the last upgrade for lvl 7s and have them keep a 2nd one like everyone else. Select what you like between WoG lvl 8 graphics and your own (the WoG Blood dragon graphic is a bad joke).

On the plus side, I like the dark tiamat. But it should be named Balaur. Maybe tone its stats a bit.

Now what you do is up to you, I wish you good luck with this mod.

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VMaiko
VMaiko


Known Hero
posted April 14, 2020 05:02 PM

Strigo This mod has only been made with recycled graphics, do not try to order something that is out of my reach, if the mod is not to your liking you can stop playing it and wait for VCMI's New Upgrades to be released so that it can be adapted to me mod, since it does have a really dedicated work and with original graphics, unlike mine.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted April 14, 2020 05:12 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 17:14, 14 Apr 2020.

@Strigo

The naga is from MM7, if I remember correctly. Still a naga from Bracada, not another place.

Edit: Wait a second... Balaur? (I know what they are, ofc, and I know them by the same name since I was little)

Edit 2: That's totally true. Still better than some other defs.

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Strigo
Strigo


Hired Hero
posted April 14, 2020 05:13 PM

was saying that it was looking out of place as a def, not as a concept

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Liso1
Liso1


Known Hero
posted April 15, 2020 09:37 AM

Hi, one of my site visitors has probably found a problem:

" I canít cast buffs on my units (the cursor doesnít change and I canít target them). I would appreciate any help."

I tried it and it's true, if I cast a mass spell, a sound is heard, but the units aren't affected.

Version 1.6.6
____________

Heroes 3 Wake of Gods Portal

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted April 15, 2020 10:34 AM
Edited by RerryR at 11:06, 15 Apr 2020.

Liso1 said:
Hi, one of my site visitors has probably found a problem:

" I canít cast buffs on my units (the cursor doesnít change and I canít target them). I would appreciate any help."

I tried it and it's true, if I cast a mass spell, a sound is heard, but the units aren't affected.

Version 1.6.6


Please delete "No Friendly Fire Magic.erm" from Mod folder. Script is not finished and can lead to crash with Necro commander casting(my bad). VMaiko will update with a hotfix were script is removed.

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