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| Thread: Minneapolis police murders man. |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 5 6 7 8 9 ... 10 20 30 35 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Salamandre
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posted June 01, 2020 07:49 AM |
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oh please, we don't discuss here how the dictionary deals with such terms but what is their usage in the political heated debate. Right-wing and leftist are always used as dismissal call-names.
For the guy who calls every other on the right a populist, term defined originally by "a believer in the rights, wisdom, or virtues of the common people" to which you added your own ingredients to make it taste pejorative, you seem very picky now about the words.
And of course I am aware that left is not just about immigration, but we are debating in a thread YOU created, where the subject is how dealing with minorities, so I emphasize on that.
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artu
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posted June 01, 2020 07:58 AM |
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Edited by artu at 08:00, 01 Jun 2020.
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Using leftist as a pejorative term and claiming it is a pejorative term by default are very different things. I can also use the word fish pejoratively, you fish, that’s about context. Neither rightist or leftist are pejorative terms in general though, not in the dictionary, not in debates.
And when you start lecturing about what left is and who leftists are, no matter the starting point of the thread, you are making definitive statements. That’s how you sound anyway.
By the way the term right doesnt come from that, it’s about who sits left to or right to the king before French Revolution.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 01, 2020 08:18 AM |
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Corribus said:
Guys/gals:
So far ok. But evildustructor, you've come about as close as you can get to insulting other members without getting a warning from me. Which I guess is kind of like getting a pre-warning. Please try to maintain the civility level, yes? This kind of stuff can get out of a hand in a hurry and I won't hesitate to shut it down.
Had to think about George Carlin. Relevant part starts at 1:25 
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Galaad
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posted June 01, 2020 10:30 AM |
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Indeed I was not using these terms in a pejorative way.
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Doomforge
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posted June 01, 2020 11:42 AM |
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"Right" and "left" lost its meaning a long time ago. Nowadays it's just an easy way to stigmatize someone who doesn't follow what we assume is morally right.
As for the whole situation with that Floyd guy - I kinda wish people would simply react to the cop committing a crime - without the whole "the victim is black" narrative. Since people are equal, why would anyone care if the victim was dark-skinned, white-skinned or purple-skinned? What does it change, except providing fuel for the unnecessary "us vs. them" war?
Also lol @ rioters. Yeah, Police kills a man, so you're morally excused for plundering a store or burning a car. Idiots.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 01, 2020 01:17 PM |
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Because people think if he was white, he wouldn’t have been shot.
They think it’s inequal, thus it’s relevant.
Whether they’re right hardly matters at this point.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 01, 2020 01:53 PM |
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Isn't this a bit more complicated than that?
I mean, let's just consider what has been going down. We are not talking about a cop getting "provoked" in any way, just hiting a guy and maybe once too often or too hard.
No, we are talking about a cop who, in plain sight of every dog and their handy camera is pressing his knee in the kneck of a prone guy begging for mercy, while his partner is just making sure than no one comes near enough to be an immediate threat.
I mean, does it look like these guys thought this might spell trouble for them, if they continue what they did? No. They were basically torturing someone in plain sight of the population (even if Floyd hadn't died he would have ended with a serious neck problem.
So I don't think these cops were thinking what they did might be wrong, illegal and potentially career-ending.
Which seems to point to a very serious problem with the police. Whether we talk about general police brutality or whether this is predominantly against blacks, a problem it is.
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Salamandre
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posted June 01, 2020 02:20 PM |
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Except that if you talk about police brutality, a few individuals will lose their job, get arrested and that's all, it ends there. But if you talk about race as cause, a civil war is on the way.
People who constantly push the race bait - despite all statistics showing the opposite, are doing everything for the disaster to come. Medias first.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 01, 2020 02:46 PM |
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You miss my point. If cops torture (and in this case kill) someone IN PLAIN SIGHT without any second thoughts and obvious sense of guilt, it can't be a few individuals. In this case we talk about something you might call a "culture". Because it must be a matter of course, otherwise the cops wouldn't deal with it in this way.
Whether it's skin-color-specific or not, is another question. I suppose it's insofar that we know already that cops in the US have a higher state of alertness with colored people - their expectation what might happen is different. Whatever that's based upon (we could discuss this, but the reasons are pretty complex), it's obviously bad for your friendly black neighbor who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Ghost
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posted June 01, 2020 02:54 PM |
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White is minority in the world. US kept still an old or ancient world. Ancient? We killed Neanderthal people, but some researchers said food shortages, narrow hips, and coldness killed them. Now thing cannot be hidden or distorted?! When will the death penalty come? Let's see if it's Neanderthal people or not. 
EDIT: I don't read much about this thread.
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Salamandre
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posted June 01, 2020 03:21 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
it's obviously bad for your friendly black neighbor who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Except that he is hardly friendly, but a hardened criminal. What you think, when cops arrest someone, they don't check for his criminal record asap then act accordingly?
Do you really think they will use same techniques for immobilizing a physic professor whose criminal record limits to having once his dog poop in the wrong corner place, with one individual whose criminal record lists a 2 digits number of felonies?
This is not to say they have a right to kill or torture and sure, they should be severely prosecuted if they break the law, but the narrative "he is a poor thing who happened to be in the wrong place" is just false. First, in order to be arrested, you have to break the law, so no.
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Galaad
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posted June 01, 2020 03:49 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Except that he is hardly friendly, but a hardened criminal.
So for you, majority of your black neighbors are hardened criminals, did I get that right?
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What you think, when cops arrest someone, they don't check for his criminal record asap then act accordingly?
What you think, no cops are racists and there is no corruption at all? They all exemplary follow protocol? This is not Disney land, the more they arrest, the more they get paid, and as you know everyone needs money.
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Do you really think they will use same techniques for immobilizing a physic professor whose criminal record limits to having once his dog poop in the wrong corner place, with one individual whose criminal record lists a 2 digits number of felonies?
Yeah, in France they shot on firemen who were no threat, they threw tear gas and grenades on students who were no threat, they shot and even killed (intentionally or not) a few old women during the yellow vest crisis.
Arresting people solely based on race is not something that doesn't exist Sal.
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This is not to say they have a right to kill or torture and sure, they should be severely prosecuted if they break the law
The issue is they rarely are. In France some even got decorated for factually breaking the law!
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Now of course there is two sides of the coins, what I'm saying is, it's just as bad to generalize on one side as much as on the other.
Things are not so black and white if you allow me the pun.
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Salamandre
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posted June 01, 2020 04:02 PM |
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Galaad said:
So for you, majority of your black neighbors are hardened criminals, did I get that right?
No, I was implying that in both last cases mentioned, Eric Garner and George Floyd, they were not saints so the attitude and actions will probably be different. That's what we talk about, right?
Galaad said:
What you think, no cops are racists and there is no corruption at all?
No, racism exists at all floors of the society. Yet, to condemn it, you have to prove it was the trigger, not just speculate because YOU see the world in black and white.
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Yeah, in France they shot on firemen who were no threat, they threw tear gas and grenades on students who were no threat, they shot and even killed (intentionally or not) a few old women during the yellow vest crisis.
Which were white, so what's your point? It rather confirms mine, that bad cops are bad cops. Not that bad cops are racists.
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The issue is they rarely are. In France some even got decorated for factually breaking the law!
Well, if they break the law, I am okay to prosecute them. But for one who saw those "gillets jaunes" being infiltrated by all sort of antifas and opportunists, I think cops were too soft on them. When you arm yourself with baseball bats, bricks and stuff then go protest, you search for trouble. And they found it. Also for collateral damage, is sad but people know the risks.
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Blizzardboy
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posted June 01, 2020 04:09 PM |
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Salamandre said:
No, I was implying that in both last cases mentioned, Eric Garner and George Floyd, they were not saints so the attitude and actions will probably be different. That's what we talk about, right?
... And that is what causes a loop of crime. They're not a saint (and it is hard to be when growing up with vast inequity) ergo they are treated like a criminal and differently from other people, ergo that leads to more violence and more resistance from the community, which contributes to continued crime, and so on and so forth. A person is punished before they ever committed a crime because of the past.
The fact is, he was murdered. If the officer treated him differently because of his record, he was still murdered.
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Galaad
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posted June 01, 2020 04:10 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 16:16, 01 Jun 2020.
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@Sal
Ok.
Well you were suggesting they wouldn't use same techniques on physic professors so that was the link... and no, not all were white. Zineb Redouane does not sound particularly french does it?
About yellow vests, they literally arrested and mutilated anyone BUT the antifas. There is even videos where you see cops letting them in and out, heck, you even saw some of these masked dudes throwing rocks get back to the cops and hanging out with them. So, yeah...
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I think cops were too soft on them
Jesus, even if they targeted the actual criminals, burning down a trash does not deserve that you lose an eye or a hand, no matter how you look at it. At least supposedly not in France.
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JollyJoker
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posted June 01, 2020 04:12 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Galaad said:
So for you, majority of your black neighbors are hardened criminals, did I get that right?
No, I was implying that in both last cases mentioned, Eric Garner and George Floyd, they were not saints so the attitude and actions will probably be different. That's what we talk about, right?
They may be more on guard, but they must not be treated differently. There is no law or rule that allows cops to treat people differently depending on whether they are known to the police or not. That's probably nearer to what I mean with "culture" - prejudgement.
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Salamandre
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posted June 01, 2020 04:14 PM |
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@BB
No, I am not saying that. A crime you did in the past and you payed for, is the past.
I am only saying that a cop will physically apprehend differently someone with a criminal record, it is a survival matter. His level of adrenaline will not be same as if he arrested random people.
Galaad said:
Zineb Redouane does not sound particularly french does it?
Do you ever check facts you relate? She was at 4th floor, with closed windows. How the hell a policeman at 100 meters below, in the middle of loud and violent protests, could have known she is not french, from that distance when he launched a tear gas grenade? Its sad, but she is a collateral victim.
See what you do? You jump on racism without any proof.
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Galaad
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posted June 01, 2020 04:25 PM |
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You're the one not checking, search a little more than 2 mns please.
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Salamandre
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posted June 01, 2020 04:34 PM |
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Well show then. For me, thinking that in middle of violent protests, smoke and tear gas everywhere, a cop sees a Arab woman at a window from 4th floor then THAT'S why he decides to launch a grenade sounds insane - and some accuses me of fomenting cosnpirationist theories.
Not to mention all police reports say this is bollock.
@edit: HERE is a video demonstrating how those grenades work. At first, you can't aim properly, then secondly, you always shot in the airs, so at vertical.
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Galaad
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posted June 01, 2020 04:40 PM |
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It's not a one link proof, you need to take the time to review different sources and listen to testimonies. You dismiss faster than you inform yourself. It's tedious to investigate, you do it yourself if you're interested.
Salamandre said:
Not to mention all police reports say this is bollock.
Well they're not crazy.
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