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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The One (and Only) 2020 US Election Thread
Thread: The One (and Only) 2020 US Election Thread This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · NEXT»
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 07, 2020 07:23 AM
Edited by Corribus at 21:11, 16 Dec 2020.

The One (and Only) 2020 US Election Thread

There have been a lot of 2020 election-related threads lately, and it's been difficult to police them all. Therefore, I would like all 2020 election-related posts in this thread, and in this thread only.

Ground rules: Please Read

(1) Any discussion about the 2020 US Presidential Election must be in this thread. Threads or posts on the US Presidential Election posted elsewhere at HC will be treated as off-topic/spam and will be deleted. If you are uncertain about what constitutes US Election related material, please send me an HCM before opening a new thread.

(2) As usual, please follow the HC Code of Conduct when posting in this thread. The Code of Conduct can be found here. Please read it before posting here.

(3) There is no need to send me complaints about users' posts in this thread. I will read the thread on a daily basis.

(4) Posts promoting or calling for election-related violence of any kind, or links to websites that promote election-related violence, will not be tolerated.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 07, 2020 07:31 AM
Edited by Corribus at 07:57, 07 Dec 2020.

Please note that I have opened the OSM Policy Discussion Thread for discussion of these rules.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted December 07, 2020 03:10 PM

Of all the fair and just criticisms of president Trump, this one resonated with me the most.  

"In my life, I have watched John Kennedy talk on television about missiles in Cuba. I saw Lyndon Johnson look Richard Russell squarely in the eye and and say, "And we shall overcome." I saw Richard Nixon resign and Gerald Ford tell the Congress that our long national nightmare was over. I saw Jimmy Carter talk about malaise and Ronald Reagan talk about a shining city on a hill. I saw George H.W. Bush deliver the eulogy for the Soviet bloc, and Bill Clinton comfort the survivors of Timothy McVeigh's madness in Oklahoma City. I saw George W. Bush struggle to make sense of it all on September 11, 2001, and I saw Barack Obama sing "Amazing Grace" in the wounded sanctuary of Mother Emanuel Church in Charleston, South Carolina.

These were the presidents of my lifetime. These were not perfect men. They were not perfect presidents, god knows. Not one of them was that. But they approached the job, and they took to the podium, with all the gravitas they could muster as appropriate to the job. They tried, at least, to reach for something in the presidency that was beyond their grasp as ordinary human beings. They were not all ennobled by the attempt, but they tried nonetheless.

And comes now this hopeless, vicious buffoon, and the audience of equally hopeless and vicious buffoons who laughed and cheered when he made sport of a woman whose lasting memory of the trauma she suffered is the laughter of the perpetrators. Now he comes, a man swathed in scandal, with no interest beyond what he can put in his pocket and what he can put over on a universe of suckers, and he does something like this while occupying an office that we gave him, and while endowed with a public trust that he dishonors every day he wakes up in the White House.

The scion of a multigenerational criminal enterprise, the parameters of which we are only now beginning to comprehend. A vessel for all the worst elements of the American condition. And a cheap, soulless bully besides. Watch him again, behind the seal of the President of the United States. Isn't he a funny man? Isn't what happened to that lady hilarious? Watch the assembled morons cheer. This is the only story now."
~Charles Pierce
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 07, 2020 04:04 PM
Edited by Corribus at 16:06, 07 Dec 2020.

This one resonates for me.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 07, 2020 04:07 PM

Link is faulty, Cor.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 07, 2020 04:08 PM

Fixed, sorry.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted December 07, 2020 05:07 PM

*reserved for a thorough reading and civilized rebuttal*
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 07, 2020 08:16 PM

Since regulating the flow of information seems to be an object of contention, I think it would be interesting to discuss what people think about social media platforms flagging social media posts when they contain allegedly misleading election information.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted December 07, 2020 08:26 PM

Are they flagging stuff like that?
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Iceskating uphill
posted December 07, 2020 08:53 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 21:13, 07 Dec 2020.

In the US, Twitter gets blasted on a regular basis for flagging or deleting tweets by people, mostly people with conservative tendencies. With a flag, the tweet isn't deleted but a disclaimer tag is put on it. I'm not convinced what use flagging even does because it seems to build up an image of the person being a martyr.

I honestly can't think of a bulletproof solution to it. The closest thing I can think of is having multiple major platforms available to communicate on. It's an open secret that the moderation of these giant tech companies (largely based in places such as San Francisco) are biased against conservative posters. Some maybe moreso than others, but that is just human nature that they are more likely to flag somebody with different views than them than somebody who they mostly agree with. Conservatives regularly complain of these social media platforms being stacked against them.

You could always retreat to, "Well, Twitter/Facebook is a company and they're allowed to set their own policies" but I doubt that argument is going to hold forever since it is increasingly argued that they serve a kind of monopoly function and places like Twitter and Facebook is the go-to place for communicating with people online. Basically, if it goes unchecked forever, there is a good chance they're going to get slapped with penalties and have more regulations.

But then let's say you start having more government oversight in monitoring posts/tweets. That creates its own can of warms and it just switches the claims of abuse from corporate to government.

So again, not an easy fix. Maybe conservatives could build up their own major platform where they feel more welcome and feel less threatened of suffering a double standard, but I can't say I'm a fan of that idea either because it starts to divide the internet up into tribes and I think it could just accelerate polarization.

What might help, and yes, this would be high maintenance, is that Twitter could flag a contentious post and then pin that tweet with a fact check. It wouldn't delete what the person said (and cause a lot of angry blowback) but it would allow people to immediately see a fact check that contends what the person is saying. This would involve funding and it would mostly be focused on high profile people that get a large number of views.

Postscript:

This isn't even the biggest problem with speech on the internet. Google is a much, much bigger question, or more broadly speaking, any extremely complex search engine algorithm. Flagging or deleting tweets/posts gets a lot of attention and everybody sees/hears about it, but algorithms can invisibly control internet traffic and direct people towards certain websites and sources while deprioritizing other search results. The algorithm is regularly tuned but it affects what you see and what you read before you ever type something in the blank search bar. The CCP does this heavily for over 1 billion people but it can also be done on search engines commonly used elsewhere.
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High end potatoes

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 07, 2020 09:18 PM

Ahem Blizz, might wanna look at this before you claim something is a fact. You don't wanna sound like fred do you?

New Study Finds No Evidence Of Anti-Conservative Bias In Facebook Moderation (If Anything, It's The Opposite)

As for the issue... Do I believe that complete bogus fake news links belong to the OSM, no. If it is that "Democrats bathe in blood and eat babies", go ahead and delete them. But I am unsure that the election fraud link should be deleted, as they are a big news item even in the mainstream media. What I don't want though is every single thread being filled with same posts, or every single time someone tries to say anything about the election, a single member comes and posts something about the election fraud. It kills all other discussion. A difficult problem I admit.

If you are willing you can also edit the post to say that this is factually unverified, I am ok with that. A lot of work though When some of these claims have been proven wrong a hundred times, it becomes a bit nauseating to read them time and time and time again...
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 08, 2020 12:48 AM

I don’t use Twitter much but Facebook simply puts a disclaimer that goes something like “this has been fact checked by a group of experts and proven to be false.” Then, you can click and remove the disclaimer and keep on checking it out. They dont do it to opinion pieces though, rather things like fake Times Magazine covers etc.

The moderation is quite dull though and sometimes I suspect it is AI, a friend of mine got a one week ban because he said something obviously sarcastic such as “yeah, I’m sure Hitler would be proud of you.”
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Famous Hero
posted December 08, 2020 04:26 AM

The One (and Only) Leader of the Free World



Steady, Mr. President, all those who belittle you have nothing but envy in their hearts.
Bright will be our future under your guidance.
Stand tall, another day, another battle.
In the end, Justice shall prevail!
MAGA 2020
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All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 08, 2020 09:48 AM

:facepalm

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Famous Hero
posted December 08, 2020 12:26 PM

"Ok, great wizard Gandalf, how do you think the even greater GEOTUS is winning this?"

Like this:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/07/texas-sues-georgia-michigan-pennsylvania-and-wisconsin-at-supreme-court-election-rules/

Dear leftists, fasten your seat belts, grab your soy products and run to twitter
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All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 08, 2020 01:23 PM

Strange that only Breitbart is reporting this...

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 08, 2020 01:44 PM

It’s like reading a Kip without the sense of humor.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted December 08, 2020 02:09 PM

Why those states? When in principle Trump won his state, he could get lesser score, because maybe fraud. All states must check again.

Do find fraud? Never - or the world gets know USA is the same Belarus, Venezuela, etc It means dead democratia in the Western. EU can't do sanctions to USA. Poop from their asses.

Biden vs Russia Trump was good boy.

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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
posted December 08, 2020 02:09 PM

He cannot stand alone!' cried Aragorn suddenly and ran back along the bridge. 'Elendil!' he shouted. 'I am with you, Gandalf!'
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.

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Gnomes2169
Gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted December 08, 2020 02:55 PM
Edited by Gnomes2169 at 15:04, 08 Dec 2020.

Sooooo... literally only breitbart and blog posts referring to/ quoting breitbart are reporting this? Which is kinda weird, because you'd think that state legislatures suing one another would be a big deal?

But also, separation of powers states that, even if this is true, one state cannot sue or discriminate against one another over state-level processes. Which election rules fall firmly under. It's why some states have more regulations than others, and why some states have rules like allowing counties that opt into it to cure votes (which is literally just informing people that they did not fill in their votes in a way that the machines/ pollsters will be able to count and allowing them to correct it... if anything, that improves the democratic process, not damages it.)

It's from an insanely unreliable source (these are also the people who published the whole "Hillary and Obama are part of a secret leftist cabal that murders children to drink their blood and praise Satan" video,) if it is true then it's still on incredibly shaky ground that can easily be dismissed without a hearing, and even if it goes to court, the electors are already chosen and will vote before any court hearing could be held. So it is utterly irrelevant.

Sorry Gandalf, but... this ain't gonna let Trumplestienie win.

Edit: Oh. And the the doctrine of laches applies to this particular idea. Where the rules were known before hand (in this case, that parts of these states allowed for vote curing) and were not a problem before the election, and there was adequate time before the election to change the rules, but weren't changed due to bipartisan consensus. The Doctrine of Laches says that in such a case, you cannot sue an individual or representative body over following the rules, because if it was actually a problem, you should have objected and/or sued when the rule was made, not when you don't like the results of a contest that might have been decided by those rules.

Soooo... entirely frivolous and without merit.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred

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