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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The One (and Only) 2020 US Election Thread
Thread: The One (and Only) 2020 US Election Thread This thread is 12 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV / NEXT»
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 09, 2020 11:57 AM
Edited by JollyJoker at 12:16, 09 Dec 2020.

I'd have to read Breitbart then, which I don't and won't.

I'd advise you to read the link I gave in the post above, which will, for sure enlighten you about a couple of things. Interestingly enough and in light of your little conversation with Gnomes, the article links to this little gem.

It delivers the story, how this piece came to pass.

The mail contact with this guy is pretty damning, since he's been reported as the webmaster of this delightful publication, so the "solicited ideas from Neo-Nazi" part is well documented.

In short - read the article. It's long, but pretty informative.

EDIT: I see you edited your post in the meantime.

Look, if you want to read an article in which they OPENLY STATE, what they are, you miss the point. The point is to deny all connections and tendencies of this kind, but promote the thoughts and ideas anyway, in a more subtle way then, say, in the Stormer. It must not be TOO obvious, but still fulfill the purpose - that's what makes "propaganda" what it is.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted December 09, 2020 01:03 PM

What link I gave you did you quote that from?

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted December 09, 2020 02:33 PM

Ah, let's see.
You quote from a well-known - or should I say notorious - Breitbart article that I linked to because the actual article that deals with Breitbart I linked to has a lot to say about how that came to pass. And what you quote is how BREITBART is downplaying neo-nazism and that (of course hyphened) "Nazi-guy". BREITBART. And you quote it as if it was a Biblical truth. Which is basically like you'd quote an article of the "Völkischer Beobachter" in which Goebbels says something like, "we researched the alledged gassing of Jews and found that it doesn't happen except in vermin-infested homes, but then the gas is killing just vermin. We spoke with one of the alledged supervisors of our work camps, and all he said, was, that it was just another attempt of the "Bolshevist press" to discredit the hard working honest Germnans."

So you quote basically proof and then you say you'd expect proof.
I think you are beyond salvation here.

And as a PS - how about quoting from the "Satanic Temple joins Planned Parenthood in Abortion Crusade, spanning a nice little arc from satanic temples, to planned parenthood, to selling baby parts and ending with pointing to Hillary's association with planned parenthood? Hm?


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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Famous Hero
posted December 09, 2020 03:26 PM

The Silver Bullet

SCOTUS Docket Forces States to Respond
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All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted December 09, 2020 03:51 PM

Salamandre said:
It's you who linked to Andrew Auernheimer and Daily Stormer (why do that?), which have zero connections with Breitbart.
From that I assume that you either didn't read th article or didn't understand it.
It's not my fault when you don't read things or are either too naive or stupid or lazy or whatever to understand them.
Or are you just simply lying like Breitbart?
Either way, I don't care.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 09, 2020 04:02 PM

Ok. Let's please get back to the election topic and drop the insults, yes?
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Gnomes2169
Gnomes2169


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Duke of the Glade
posted December 09, 2020 05:41 PM

Gandalf196 said:
The Silver Bullet

SCOTUS Docket Forces States to Respond

These people have a pretty massive reading comprehension failure... the Thursday deadline is what Texas is asking the Supreme Court to hear them by. There's no magical need for the sued states to actually put up any kind of legal representation by then, since the Supreme Court has not actually accepted hearing the case, and defendants are legally, constitutionally guaranteed to have time to have a "reasonable" amount of time to gather their resources for their defense. Less than 2 days is not "reasonable."

The SCOTUS has also been rather consistent with their messaging about hearing these cases... in that they have universally refused to hear every single one of them. This one is not likely to be heard either with that background, and it really seems like Texas knows it, since their state's prosecutor's office refused to represent the case in any way. Ken Paxton is trying to prosecute the case effectively by himself. He hasn't been a lawyer for decades. Which is probably why he thinks it's okay for him to try and violate the constitution with this clear attempt to interfere with the sovereignty of other states and how they run their elections.

Gandalf, I'm saying this so that you don't get disappointed... this really, really isn't going to work out the way you are hoping. God Emperor of the USA Trumplegump has lost, and the courts have unanimously ruled that they will not invalidate the massive swathes of the election that they would need in order to make him win. And it wasn't because of fraud, which was just as statistically insignificant as it always is. There was no grand conspiracy. The people of the United States simply don't want a spoiled man-child who talks like a wanna-be dictator to be president. The USA is a democratic republic, not an Imperial state. We don't take kindly to emperors around here. So he was voted out.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 09, 2020 05:46 PM

@JJ and Salamandre

I'm not joking around. Stick to the topic. If you want to discuss the merits of Wikipedia as a general information source, do it in another thread, and do it with decorum.

Thread cleaned.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Famous Hero
posted December 09, 2020 07:51 PM

We China now


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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted December 09, 2020 08:38 PM

But surely you still have strong faith in the fact that I and others will be shown our place come January? Despite the fact that all states have now certified their results, but you have some reliable inside sources tellig that Trump will win, right?
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted December 09, 2020 09:50 PM
Edited by PandaTar at 21:51, 09 Dec 2020.

I particularly think that Trump has lost, and that might be good for him even, not lingering overlong in this mess, and perhaps rising back with cooler heads, if this other Biden (which always sounds Bin Laden in my mind, no matter what) proves not capable of doing better. And if he does, then things will become clearer to this and that side. But it seems that, just like Brazil, this clash was necessary. People take their side too much for granted, and it helps, or at least it should, make people visit other views every now and then, because both sides have something good to procure, as well they have flaws, and people must seek the whole picture, and not become poisoned by mainstream beliefs and be carried away by it.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Iceskating uphill
posted December 09, 2020 11:51 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 00:10, 10 Dec 2020.

@Minion

Maybe he didn't want to get into an argument during a Senate hearing, but Mark Zuckerberg talked extensively last year about changes needed on Facebook to prevent political posts from being removed or censored except in very specific situations.

Most of it is done with AI (because using an army of humans in however many different languages just isn't doable) but there are still humans that monitor the big picture.

@Gnomes

Yeah the courts have been giving a "not sure if serious" meme for the past month.

It's not like Trump's tactic to spread the idea of election fraud is a winning strategy anyway unless you can get over half of people on board with it, otherwise it's just a way to whip up his base at the expense of making everybody else more turned-off than ever. But the advantage for him is how much this is even going to be talked about in a few years. In 2012 Trump was the center figure in the Birther movement and that is now ancient history. If Trump runs in 2024 I'm not sure how much any of this will even affect anything.  
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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Famous Hero
posted December 10, 2020 12:57 AM

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163215/20201209144840609_2020-12-09%20-%20Texas%20v.%20Pennsylvania%20-%20Amicus%20Brief%20of%20Missouri%20et%20al.%20-%20Final%20with%20Tables.pdf

BRIEF OF STATE OF MISSOURI AND 16 OTHER STATES AS AMICI CURIAE IN
SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFF’S MOTION FOR LEAVE TO FILE BILL OF COMPLAIN

Amici curiae are the States of Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, and West Virginia


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All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


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Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted December 11, 2020 11:15 AM

By Heather Cox Richardson, Dec 10, 2020

December 10, 2020 (Thursday)

Today more than half of the Republicans in the House of Representatives signed onto Texas’s lawsuit asking the Supreme Court to overturn the results of the 2020 election and install Trump, rather than the legitimately elected Joe Biden, into the White House.

Democrat Biden won the election by more than 7 million votes and by 306 to 232 electoral votes. Trump has lost 55 of the 56 court cases he has brought to change the election’s outcome, and all 50 states have certified their election results. This election is not close; attempts to overturn it reject the central concept of democracy: that voters choose their leaders.

The story is this: Texas’s Attorney General Ken Paxton is asking the Supreme Court to hear an original case between the states—which it can do, but it’s rare—arguing that Texas was harmed by voting procedures in Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. Essentially, Paxton is arguing that mail-in voting in those states, which Democrats used more extensively than Republicans did after Trump insisted it was insecure, stepped on Texans’ rights. This will be a hard sell.

If the Supreme Court does say Texas can sue, Paxton is hoping that 5 justices will then decide to toss out the electoral votes—but not the votes in the downballot races-- from those states. This would take away Biden’s victory in the Electoral College, handing the election to Trump.

After Texas filed the lawsuit, Trump filed a request to join it.

This is a crazy lawsuit. As Senator Mitt Romney (R-UT) said: “It’s just simply madness…. The idea of supplanting the vote of the people with partisan legislators is so completely out of our national character that it’s simply mad…. [T]his effort to subvert the vote of the people is dangerous and destructive of the cause of democracy.” University of Texas Law School Professor Steve Vladeck was more succinct: “In a nutshell the President is asking the Supreme Court to exercise its rarest form of jurisdiction to effectively overturn the entire presidential election.”

It is possible—likely, even—that Paxton is advancing this nonsense because he has been under indictment since 2015 for securities fraud, is now under investigation by the FBI for bribery and abuse of office, and is hoping to impress Trump enough to get a presidential pardon. Just today, the FBI issued at least one subpoena for records from Paxton’s office. Knowing that this lawsuit has virtually no chance of winning, he could file it and win points with Trump while also knowing it would go nowhere.

But this moment has grown far beyond Paxton’s lawsuit into a fight over the future of the Republican Party and, ultimately, over the future of democracy.

States have squared off on both sides of Paxton’s lawsuit. Last night, seventeen other states supported the suit to hand the election to Trump, including Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, and West Virginia. Later, Arizona joined them.

Today, the four states named in the suit made it clear they are standing up for democracy. Pennsylvania’s brief notes that Trump has “flooded” the courts “with frivolous lawsuits aimed at disenfranchising large swaths of voters and undermining the legitimacy of the election.” Adding to “the cacophony of bogus claims,” Texas is trying to throw out four state elections because it doesn’t like their results. Its demand “is legally indefensible and is an affront to principles of constitutional democracy.” The brief warns, “Texas’s effort to get this Court to pick the next President has no basis in law or fact. The Court should not abide this seditious abuse of the judicial process, and should send a clear and unmistakable signal that such abuse must never be replicated.”

“[T]his case is not ordinary,” the Wisconsin brief says. “Texas is asking this Court to overturn the will of the people of Wisconsin—and the nation—based on meritless accusations of election fraud. If this Court agrees to do so, it will not only irreparably harm its own legitimacy, but will lend fuel to a disinformation campaign aimed at undermining the legitimacy of our democracy.”

Twenty-three Democratic-led states and territories, along with the Republican Attorney General of Ohio, Dave Yost, today signed a brief supporting the four states Texas is attacking. The District of Columbia, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Guam, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, U.S. Virgin Islands, and Washington all backed the states whose votes Texas is trying to throw out.

But six states—Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina, and Utah—joined Texas’s lawsuit today. Members of the Pennsylvania General Assembly filed a brief supporting Texas and Trump, signing on to the idea of taking the vote away from their own people.

Then the 106 Republican members of Congress jumped aboard the lawsuit, signing a brief in support of it. Trump worked the phones and enlisted Representative Mike Johnson (R-LA) head of the Republican Study Committee, the party caucus of social conservatives in the House, to hold members’ feet to the fire. Johnson sent around an email saying that Trump had “specifically asked me to contact all Republican Members of the House and Senate today and request that all join on to our brief.” Johnson noted that Trump “will be anxiously awaiting the final list to review,” in order to see who was on his team and who was not. Only ninety House Republicans refused to sign.

What on earth is going on?

First: Trump is throwing at the wall anything he can in hopes of staying in office. The more chaos it creates, the happier he is. The lawsuit crisis has, for example, muted the story that at least 2,923 Americans died today of Covid-19, and 223,570 cases were reported, a 28% increase in the weekly average of cases since two weeks ago.

It has also diverted attention from the fact that there is no deal, and no real sign of a deal, on a coronavirus relief bill. A bipartisan group of senators has managed to hammer out a $908 billion deal but Republicans refuse to allow its $160 billion for aid to state and local governments and Democrats refuse to agree to shield businesses from liability for coronavirus injuries. The bipartisan group tried to put the two things together, but Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says that’s a non-starter. Meanwhile, 26 million Americans say they don’t have enough to eat.

Second: There is a war underway for control of the Republican Party. While a losing incumbent president usually loses influence in the party, Trump intends to continue to call the shots. He wants to run again in 2024, or at least to anoint a successor, rather than letting the Republican National Committee pick a presidential candidate. There is a struggle going on to control the RNC and, as well, to figure out who gets control of the lists of supporters Trump has compiled. Trump also controls a lot of the party’s money, since he has been out front as its fundraiser without a break since he decided to run for office. He was the first president ever to file for reelection on the day of his inauguration, permitting him to hold “rallies” and to raise money throughout his presidency.

So Republican lawmakers are willing to swear loyalty to him, either because they want to attract his voters in future elections, or because they want access to the cash he can raise, or both. They no longer defend traditional policy positions; they defend Trump.

This loyalty requires contortions. In Georgia, the Republican Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr called the Texas lawsuit “constitutionally, legally and factually wrong.” But Georgia’s two senators, Republicans David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, have backed it. The senators are facing a runoff election in January against Democrat challengers Jon Ossoff and the Reverend Raphael Warnock, and they need Trump’s support. So they are taking a stand against their own voters. So are nearly half of Georgia’s Republican congressional delegation, despite the fact that this position logically would overturn their own elections.

Third: Texas’s lawsuit and the Republican Party’s embrace of it is an unprecedented attempt to destroy the very foundation of our democracy. Since the 1980s, Republican leaders have managed to hold onto power by suppressing votes, promoting propaganda, gerrymandering states, gaming the Electoral College, and stacking the courts.

Now, so unpopular that even gaming the mechanics of our system is not enough, they have abandoned democracy itself.
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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Famous Hero
posted December 11, 2020 02:32 PM


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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted December 11, 2020 02:42 PM

Being praised by someone like Dugin is pretty damning, especially when it's not a Russian. I mean, he's on the sanctioned list of the US Treasury Department.

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Famous Hero
posted December 11, 2020 03:06 PM

The_Gootch said:
December 10, 2020 (Thursday)

Third: Texas’s lawsuit and the Republican Party’s embrace of it is an unprecedented attempt to destroy the very foundation of our democracy. Since the 1980s, Republican leaders have managed to hold onto power by suppressing votes, promoting propaganda, gerrymandering states, gaming the Electoral College, and stacking the courts.

Now, so unpopular that even gaming the mechanics of our system is not enough, they have abandoned democracy itself.



No, it is not. It is a constitutional and feasable path to correct the massive wrongdoings of democrats in this election. If you recall it, Al Capone was not convicted because of his many crimes, but was sentenced to prison for tax evasion.
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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Iceskating uphill
posted December 11, 2020 05:32 PM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 17:33, 11 Dec 2020.

It's an unprecedented path to winning brownie points that they already know won't actually change the election.

Not surprising that a lot of the states suing are the states with voting laws that inhibit poverty-level people from voting. i.e. midwest and southeastern states.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 11, 2020 09:30 PM

The losers are the USA and their population, because whichever way this ends, the losing side will think they were screwed and act accordingly.

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Famous Hero
posted December 11, 2020 10:30 PM

There's been a curious change in the tone of your posts - it's moved from "LOL. TRUMP LOST. TRUMPTARDS GRASPING AT STRAWS" to "OMG, ORANGE MAN BAD IS RUINING OUR DEMOCRACY. SCOTUS FASCIST!"
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