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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 12, 2002 05:02 AM |
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As I predicted….the democrats were grandstanding their political protests about Iraq ….Bush got his authorization by a landslide….2/3 support…quite amazing really. The news reported:
“Handing Bush a major victory, the Democratic-led Senate voted 77-23 for a war powers resolution negotiated between the White House and congressional leaders backing possible use of force to rid Iraq of suspected weapons of mass destruction and possibly oust Saddam. The Republican-led House passed it by a vote of 296-133 on Thursday.”
Am I happy about that? Nope….kind of sober….war is never something to be excited about….well except if we ever find OBL and pay him his due.
On other fronts ….regarding those who think Saddam’s word should be taken…well the shooting at us has increased as even more since my last post on it….it is reported today:
”The Pentagon said Iraqi gunners had fired on coalition aircraft policing the zones 122 times since Saddam offered on Sept. 16 to let U.N. weapons inspectors return to his country, a sharply higher rate than usual. “
So much yet again for his words and intentions!
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“most europeans do not moan too much on either of these”
All I know is when Americans go to certain European countries we get racially profiled and treated like crap….not all mind you (maybe it has changed…long time since I have been there), but enough that a reputation has developed….kind of like New Yorkers…except there they hate everyone equally
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“My only objection was that you STILL hold over us debts we incurred during WWII despite our almost constant (and often sole)support for your military actions.”
I don’t know that much about the debt situation….so correct me if I am wrong…but if someone lends another money shouldn’t they pay it back?
Lews…don’t give up on the challenge….come on buddy there has got to be something that you could find that would be offensive to me
Bort…thanks for the directions on the bold font thing….but I think I would have better luck deciphering an intensive calculus problem then able to follow those directions
That was a good clarification of your earlier post about the Bible and "lost in translation". There are many nuances to translation, historical context, textual context, reader’s bias, etc. That is why I think it is incorrect to think that the Bible can be understood easily at a face reading.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 12, 2002 06:33 AM |
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Well if you believe everything your professor tells you there is the first problem. At least in the USA colleges are in serious decline as they offer no real debate and are controlled by an extreme liberal bias. Hey I enjoyed and learned as much as the next person when I got my BA and MA...but sometimes you got realize that things are very misconstrued in much of higher education....same with the media as far as that goes.
One of the most important things I learned at the university is that males and our patriarchy were and currently are responsible for all theft, war, rape, racial discord, environmental pollution, poverty, starvation, disease, divorce, earthquakes, destruction of the rain forests, depleting of the ozone, suicide, child abuse, lies, murder, extinction of species, domestic violence, drug abuse, violence, bad breath, and body odor Men have nothing to offer society but an apology. Plus we must not forget that men, as taught by many colleges, are emotionally inept and have impoverished communication skills past repair. Excuse me while I go again to ask my wife for forgiveness for assuming the form of a basterdly male
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 12, 2002 12:58 PM |
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Dargon - The debt thing
Basically with the fall of France they shifted their gold reserves over to canada and refused to spend ANY of it in recovering their country. We were already pretty skint from WWI and now faced a year or so with only the empire (which for ease I'll include Australia Canada etc in for now) to support us. These mythical wonderfull tanks and support you gave did not come free of charge, even when you joined we still had to pay our way you know! So we basically bankrupted ourselves doing things like supporting resistance fighters in europe and a large RAF and Navy and ensuring D-Day could be launched. An example being you traded 20 or so ancient destroyers with us, but we gave you some lucrative islands in return...............
Now no offence but you have said in the past America should have been in the war earlier, and yet you still make us pay for the debts we incurred waiting for you to come to your senses. We bankrolled much of the resistance fighters of Europe through the SOE and were a major player throughout the war, all at our own expense. Now since then whenever you needed us (bar vietnam, but since that was an idiotic war......) we have helped, often by ourselves, TOO often without question.
It's not simply a case of you lending this money, you and the world got something in return from it that was priceless, yet STILL we pay it back! To my recollection we will finish paying it in about 10 years but we pay a fair few billion a year in interest (yes you even hold interest over us) and payments.
Way I see it it was a loan amongst good friends. Way america seems to see it it's a damn business deal. Tells you far too much about who really sees this as a special relationship and who sees it as a business deal doesn't it really?
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted October 12, 2002 09:56 PM |
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America has been bombing Iraq for over 10 years now and suddenly they seek approval for going to war? Quote:
The U.S. has been bombing military targets and shoting down planes in the "no fly zone". Which the UN set up.
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America is scared of biological warfare, but America is the country that bombed water purification and sewage treatment plants in Iraq? Not only thats a war crime according to the Geneva convention but is also considered biological warfare...biological warfare means killing people with disease, chemicals etc...Quote:
Iraq has a water shortage and Saddam obviously doesn't care. He says the fountains at his around 30 palaces have to be going constantly. And he doesn't care if he kills his own people of thirst to do it. Saddam is always first, country second.
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America is opposed how Saddam Hussein got into office; by cheating? Last election has placed America on the top 10 countries to be investigated and monitored during elections. Quote:
That would be Florida's fault because they are stupid and don't know how to use ballots. The same ballots were given to third graders and they had far less problems than the adults. And resently the governor elections in Florida had the same problems as the Presitential elections.
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Not to mention that almost 92% of all weapons possesed by other countires are produced and distributed by America.
Isn't the government scared that they might get bombed by their own bombs?Quote:
Have you seen the movie "The Sum Of All Fears". That is what happens, the nuke that is set off in Baltimore is one that the U.S. gave to Israel in the 1960's. They lost it and terrorists found it and used it.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 13, 2002 09:22 AM |
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PH- America has given untold billions freely. We help others out with no compensation for our efforts. I am thankful for every time UK or whoever helps us out...as we likewise do the same.
Again I know nothing about the loans you mention...but if a loan was made then both parties knew what they were getting and agreed to it...saying that repayment is wrong now seems faulty...if UK didn't like the terms of the loan them they shouldn't of agreed to them. Now if we sold/loaned you some lemons then there is a legitimate grievance.
If I make someone a loan then I expect to be repaid. If I give someone a gift then I don't expect to be repaid. A loan is a loan....it is not a gift. Our goverment borrows money all the time...my expectation is that the USA pay all of their loans as agreed to. Contractual agreements are one of the central foundations of civilized society.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted October 13, 2002 06:28 PM |
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MANY THANKS TO THE AMERICAN BUTTHEADS ONCE AGAIN GRRRRRR
those idiots never stop playing world police...and other countries get the pay off, like the bombing in Bali today.
it makes me totally sick if some guys defend the planned attack of the irak...get this straight you idiots: it will never stop if you dont! you attack, than the terrorists strike back, than you attack again, than the terrorists kill even more people, and so on...
its not the snowing answer, and yes im snowing angry right now when looking at in in TV...
American idiots , big bush snow...you will increase all the terror instead of making it disappear...
and stop your snowing lies, all you care about is your money coz all your country has is the military power...
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted October 13, 2002 08:12 PM |
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If they can´t get along they gotta kill eachother.
There has been 2 world wars.. what makes you think there wont be another?
It will be the US and Britain and possibly others Vs the arabs.
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Wolfman
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Insomniac
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posted October 13, 2002 10:18 PM |
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Quote:
If they can´t get along they gotta kill eachother.
There has been 2 world wars.. what makes you think there wont be another?
It will be the US and Britain and possibly others Vs the arabs.
And nukes will be used...Iraq can nuke Moscow if they have them.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 13, 2002 10:59 PM |
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Quote:
PH- America has given untold billions freely. We help others out with no compensation for our efforts. I am thankful for every time UK or whoever helps us out...as we likewise do the same.
Again I know nothing about the loans you mention...but if a loan was made then both parties knew what they were getting and agreed to it...saying that repayment is wrong now seems faulty...if UK didn't like the terms of the loan them they shouldn't of agreed to them. Now if we sold/loaned you some lemons then there is a legitimate grievance.
If I make someone a loan then I expect to be repaid. If I give someone a gift then I don't expect to be repaid. A loan is a loan....it is not a gift. Our goverment borrows money all the time...my expectation is that the USA pay all of their loans as agreed to. Contractual agreements are one of the central foundations of civilized society.
Well therein lies the difference. I don't see it as a loan as such as I think we more than repaid it in the way we were a considerable part of freeing the world of Hitler and then to america specifically we backed you in virtually every conflict you have needed support in since. Perhaps it's a case of me and many other brits figuring that we paid the price for beating hitler and standing up to him when no-one else would. It leaves a bitter taste that every year we pay billions simply because we had the guts and the brains to stand there and fight.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 13, 2002 11:19 PM |
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Just a side point -- are you sure that the debt is held by the US government itself? Most debt that is owed "to a nation" is actually owed to companies and banks that happen to have their headquarters in the US. Also, other countries, western Europe and Japan most notably, are owed money by the US, but they don't forgive that debt even though the US helped them rebuild after WWII. Again, I'm not sure if that debt is actually held by the governments in question.
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Wolfman
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Insomniac
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posted October 14, 2002 11:34 PM |
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Why does the U.S. owe Europe and Japan money?
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privatehudson
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The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 15, 2002 12:01 AM |
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Dunno, but I do know they owe a shedload of money to the UN
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 15, 2002 12:22 AM |
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Wolfman - because of our trade deficit and because of who buys government bonds (the bond purchase is often done by foreign banks and investment firms and is a form of debt). Like I said, I don't think it's owed directly to foreign governments. Foreign debt is normally much more complicated than "America owes Japan" or "Britain owes the US."
PH - When the UN delegates pay their freakin' parking fines, we'll pay the UN fees. Well, when that and when the UN starts doing whatever we say unquestioningly
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privatehudson
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posted October 15, 2002 12:28 AM |
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LOL typical yank, always holding somebody over a barrel until they have robbed them blind! I'm sure a few parking fees really compare to the millions the US owes the UN
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 15, 2002 12:41 AM |
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>$20,000,000 is owed by UN delegates to the city of New York.
bbc article
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privatehudson
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The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 15, 2002 12:54 AM |
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Can't your police impound their vehicles or do they have diplomatic immunity, which would kinda mean they shouldn't get them in the 1st place shouldn't it?
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 15, 2002 01:22 AM |
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As I understand it, the police can and do tow the cars, but they can get them back without paying the fine because of diplomatic immunity. However, that is really abusing the spirit of diplomatic immunity. Diplomatic immunity is not meant to allow you to park in a fire lane or in front of a fire hydrant. It is not meant to let you double park in a two lane street and completely cut off traffic flow through it (which REALLY congests things in NYC when it happens. Trust me.). It is not meant to let you take a handicapped space. It is not meant to allow you to block somebodies driveway. It is not meant to allow you to park in front of a bus stop. This isn't a case of some woman being stoned to death because she's a westerner who doesn't wear the full veil and whatnot, this is an snow who thinks the world revolves around him and he can disrupt everybody else's lives so that he can drive (very badly, mind you. What is it about people who can drive perfectly well at home that makes them drive like maniacs as soon as they get those diplomatic plates. Yes, that's a generalization, but I stand by my generalization that diplomats can't drive.) and park wherever he wants while the rabble has to take the subway or the bus(which is blocked by his goddamn car being parked across three lanes of traffic.).
Freakin' UN.
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privatehudson
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posted October 15, 2002 02:20 AM |
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Well I say lob them in a crusher and then hand them back and tell them to shove their diplomatic immunity up their little *censored*
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 15, 2002 04:24 AM |
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Edited By: dArGOn on 15 Oct 2002
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Andi would you prefer we send terrorists a nice box of chocolates? Yeah it all started because of Bush....come on read up on history...some people are going to kill others no matter what you do....to believe otherwise is to be hopelessly idealistic.
I guess in your line of logic the UK and countries like them were responsible for all the millions the Germans killed because they actually fought back...shame on the UK they caused all the problems and deaths in WWII. If they just would of been more tolerant of Hitler none of the problems would of happened. How about charging the UK for war crimes...yeah that is the ticket
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 15, 2002 04:46 AM |
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Man is it really that much Bort? I knew it was a ridiculous amount..but that is insane...we should move the UN to like Iowa where they can park in front of cows and have the hicks flatten there tires
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