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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted October 15, 2002 08:31 AM |
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Dargon i would prefer if the US would stop increasing their anger!
You cant defeat terrorsim, as you said there will always be peeps that will commit such cruel crimes...but than why raise their anger so it increases even more???
Do you really believe a bombing of the iraq will solve any problems? oh yeah, 1 thing it might solve, your countries suffering financial situation and you will ne proud again of being an american....
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted October 15, 2002 08:40 AM |
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He is right Dargon no matter what war will involve innocents & not all support what out govt does & our president & recent issues that U.S is not the only terrist attacks but in other countries no matter where you go like Bali recently & even palastine.
What can we really do retaliate in hatred by killing more 1000's of inocents just to get to one man because of some personal andetta or because of the 9/11 where it almost seemed like a holy war.
What can we really do assasination do we really have to involve so many inocents, it seems like a dificult choice 7 decisions & what if we do go after one man, there are many people who will take charge with the same beliefs who would possibly be even worst then Saddam or even Laden.
I wonder what we can really do?
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted October 15, 2002 08:46 AM |
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Quote:
Andi would you prefer we send terrorists a nice box of chocolates? Yeah it all started because of Bush....come on read up on history...some people are going to kill others no matter what you do....to believe otherwise is to be hopelessly idealistic.
I guess in your line of logic the UK and countries like them were responsible for all the millions the Germans killed because they actually fought back...shame on the UK they caused all the problems and deaths in WWII. If they just would of been more tolerant of Hitler none of the problems would of happened. How about charging the UK for war crimes...yeah that is the ticket
We were lucky for Germany came really close for taking Russia I mean Moscow & all but they were not prepared for the climate which everyone got sick & rations was short & Russia was ready & another surprise that they had a more high tech hidden tanks no one knew about that helped & after the war both countries lost many casualties & Old Joeseph Stalin gotten paranoid after the war & thought people wanted to assasinate him so if he thought any way or heard any rumours about anythang they were killed.
Communism sigh.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 15, 2002 03:13 PM |
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I think people are missing the point of the military actions. The point is not to eliminate everybody that has the desire to commit terrorist acts against the US. There are people that hate the US. There are people who hate the US so much that, if given the opportunity, they will blow up small portions of it. Some of those people are born and bred white boy Americans a-la Timothy McVeigh. Nobody, not even GW thinks that we're going to kill everybody who wants to kill us before they get the chance. The point is to make it extraordinarily difficult to do anything about that hatred.
Why was Afghanistan attacked? Because the Taliban was providing Al-Qaeda with a safe haven where they could train, plan, rest, etc with complete impunity. It's one thing to plan and fund a major attack when you can plan in safety, it's quite another if you have to keep looking over your shoulder and moving around all the time. Yes, the 9/11 attacks were shockingly low tech and "easy," but clearly it must actually be pretty hard to pull off since you'll notice that more planes haven't been hijacked since. If it was really that easy, there wouldn't be any commercial flights left running by now.
Now, I've already stated why I think that an attack on Iraq is unwise, but I think people are missing the point of what the justification is. Saddam Hussein either has weapons of mass destruction and is trying to develop more. He hates the US to the degree that he wants to blow up bits of it. Now, Al Qaeda does not like Saddam and he doesn't like them. However, if he was reasonably certain that if he provided Al Qaeda with, say, nerve gas that it would be used on the US or Israel and not on him, well, I think he'd be quite happy to put aside his differences for a little while. Like I said, I don't think the justification is flawed in and of itself, I just think that in a wider context, a war with Iraq would be a bad decision. As much as I dislike Bush, however, I don't think he would be actually evil for making that decision.
The US is perfectly content with having people hate it. You can't please everybody and some people will hate the US simply by virtue of Disney and McDonalds. The point of the military action is to ensure that the vast majority of people who want to commit terrorist acts can't commit terrorist acts, at least not on the scale of 9/11.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted October 16, 2002 12:12 AM |
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The top 2 countries with the highest parking fines owed to the U.S.:
#1: Soviet Union
#2: Russia
I see a pattern
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 16, 2002 12:16 AM |
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Yes the communists of Russia are planning to bring about the delayed fall of America and it's friends by bankrupting America through parking fines not being paid.................
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted October 16, 2002 02:30 AM |
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ha ha
I don't think so
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 16, 2002 05:47 AM |
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Economy- For those who keep bringing up the economy as a reason why we are dealing with Saddam….you seem uninformed. For one thing we are in a MILD recession…not a depression. Our economy is still kicking butt and beats out almost every other nation in the world. Second every 10 years we have a recession….this is nothing but a cyclical trend which we are very use to…they always pass within a relatively brief time. Relatively speaking this is much more mild then the ones we have experienced in the past. So in conclusion the “we are making war, to help our economy” argument really doesn’t hold much water.
Are we going to solve all the problems by replacing Saddam…of course not….neither are we going to solve world hunger when we get billions in world aid…doesn’t mean that we don’t make a positive impact.
Regarding the assertion that we are escalating their hate....USA cannot be responsible for peoples hate….people hate just to hate…people hate Germans, USA, Japan, blacks, Arabs, etc..so please lets get off our high horse and realize there is very little one can do to curb hate…particularly when it has little justifiable cause.
Furthermore other facts dispute this "we are escalating their anger" theory....as pointed out by others…we actually helped Saddam and OBL in other situations….so here we are helping them out in other ways, and still they turned on us and hate us (granted there is a whole diatribe of reasons that they give for their hatred of us).
Facts are facts…hate is and will always be. Don’t blame the victim of the hate…and don’t deny us our right to defend ourselves. It is a well known fact that Saddam tried to murder our former president, has provided training to al Qaeda members in using gas, poisons and in making bombs, and shoots at our planes all the time. Moreover Saddam is not just a threat to the USA but to much of the democratic world.
Quote
“Yes the communists of Russia are planning to bring about the delayed fall of America and it's friends by bankrupting America through parking fines not being paid.................”
LOL…I knew it
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted October 16, 2002 03:44 PM |
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Quote:
Economy- For those who keep bringing up the economy as a reason why we are dealing with Saddam?.you seem uninformed. For one thing we are in a MILD recession?not a depression. Our economy is still kicking butt and beats out almost every other nation in the world. Second every 10 years we have a recession?.this is nothing but a cyclical trend which we are very use to?they always pass within a relatively brief time. Relatively speaking this is much more mild then the ones we have experienced in the past. So in conclusion the ?we are making war, to help our economy? argument really doesn?t hold much water.
That is of course, the rational way to look at the economy. However, to the people who lost their jobs or their retirement funds, and who happen to have a little thing called "voting rights" it's not so mild. To a large portion of the american people, the economy is an issue and is not doing well right now. Fair or not, whoever is on watch when the economy goes down at all is the one who has to face voter fall out. The argument is not that the war is to help the economy, the argument is that Bush is creating an issue to distract people from the economy, that he's trying to get people to wave flags and cheer the troops instead of asking, "why are you ignoring the fact that people are being laid off?" I partially agree and partially disagree with this viewpoint. Do I think Bush's motivations are political? Yes. Do I think that he should be focusing on the economy (and Al Qaeda, if we're talking foreign policy)? Yes. Did he invent the Iraq issue? No. Is the Iraq issue important? Yes, but I really think he's giving it undue attention.
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darkfriend
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 16, 2002 05:33 PM |
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I still don't think attacking Iraq is the right thing.....Ok I sort of get Bort's point.....Expect....that the countries that the US are so eager to bomb probably thinks the exact same thing....For them, America is a big threat who intends to wipe them out or press them in a very small containment until they dwindle out and die,....with the US having the end of UN's leash and all....So, same reason there. Defending themselves........but it seems America had gone too far at that......
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2002 08:47 AM |
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I am wrong
wow...I guess I was wrong about that whole dictator thing....Saddam got 100% of the vote....guess we need to honor the will of the people and leave that great democratically elected official alone
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2002 08:49 AM |
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but dargon, explain me: if you attack iraq, will terrorism activities stop or decrease?
dont you fear it might have consequences we cant oversee yet?
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Snogard
Known Hero
customised
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posted October 17, 2002 10:00 AM |
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Quote:
wow...I guess I was wrong about that whole dictator thing....Saddam got 100% of the vote....guess we need to honor the will of the people and leave that great democratically elected official alone
What do you expect?! Told you he is a nice guy.
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Seize The Day.
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Undead_Knight
Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
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posted October 17, 2002 08:05 PM |
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Dargon, after all things done by USA to Iraq real popularity of Hussain isnt much less than 100%
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2002 05:09 AM |
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Undead Knight man you need to work a little on your sense of humor…I almost thought you were serious
Andi-that is a good question. We are replacing Saddam because of two reasons…one he is a dangerous dictator who is in violation of his terms of surrender and two he has been supporting terrorism. Each can be viewed independently or together.
So will terrorism grow in response....well it may or may not. On one hand we will be changing one of the places they get support and refuge and on the other hand it may piss them off more. Bottom line though is...the very fact that we breathe air pisses them off. Just look at the recent attack in Bali...they don't need a good reason to kill people cause they always will find a reason to kill anyone who is not an extremist Muslim.
Are there consequences we might not see...yes. Such is all of life though in my opinion. We can only act in the best way we know. And to me replacing Saddam is an excellent tactic for the safety of the world. Some could say that defeating Germany in WWI contributed to Germany’s hatred and murder in WWII…but I don’t think we shouldn’t of fought in WWI just because of WWII.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2002 10:36 AM |
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Dargon, if you seriously wanna compare this sitiation with WW2....well im speechless so i stop
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted October 18, 2002 10:52 AM |
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LMAO go thread go........
I am still 100% for blowin up the whole populace and those who survive were destined to  ..... be the next terrorists that is.
Maybe we should take a gamble and blow the whole world to hell and let the chips fall where they may? (btw i moving to the mountains if this is the case  )
Heres a question kinda rhetoric....
If we have a nuclear war (go bush go) and the entire planets population is whiped out so that only 1% remains. Will democracy survive? or what country do you think will rebuild the fastest?
my vote goes to china
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I guess with my way thinking I would be going to hell. Good thing I dont believe in it.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted October 19, 2002 06:36 AM |
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Andi-my purpose was not to compare the Iraq situation to any of the WW's.
The point was to use an example of how we never know what the consequences of our actions will be...but sometimes we have to make the best decision we know how.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted October 19, 2002 06:52 AM |
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I think it will be a bad idea to get rid of Saddam for 2 reasons.
First there are people
just like him who will take his place after he is captured,surrenders or is assainated.
second there will be an avenge & a war that will be of hatred & terrost attacks will be worst then sept 11th.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted October 19, 2002 01:55 PM |
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He won't surrender or be captured the only way is assasination.
But the U.S. won't assasinate him because we tried that in Vietnam and it backfired.
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