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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Fortress Strategy.
Thread: Fortress Strategy. This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
thunderknight
thunderknight


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 06, 2001 06:01 PM

Hi, all,

CraigHack, you got my point  

I am not a very good player of fortress
(I consider myself a good player of stronghold and tower. ) and so I seldom (well, I think never ) stick to fortress for the whole game.

I admit that fortress is great in terms of defence. High defence rating of heroes, some tough units and the terrain advantage made fortress a difficult town to take (well, difficult but not impossible. ) However,.......

DEFENCE WILL GET YOU NOWHERE ! unless you are playing team battle and your main goal is to wear down your opponent(s).

To me, there are some problems with fortress:
1). Let's look at the "arsenal" of every town in full line-up i.e units doing most damage:

Castle: AA, champion and crusader
Tower: Titan, naga queen
Dungeon: BD, minotaur king
Stronghold: AB/B, thunderbird (well, coz CK is too difficult to get and hence low number)
Necro: Dreadknight and Skele (followed by GD or power lich)
Inferno: AD, efreet sultan (or demon if use pit lord wisely)
Rampart: GD, war unicorn or grand elf
Conflux: phonex, magic elemental

Fortress: chaos hydra & mighty gorgon

See the problem ? Yep, hydra and MG are great IF THEY CAN REACH THE UNITS THEY WANT. I guess every reasonable human player will wait the MG out and shoot them to death instead of wasting their lv7 on them.

2). The success of fortress depends on too many prerequisite
e.g. expert water, teleport, etc etc

3). Lack of initiative in battle: fortress is only better than stronghold and tower in terms of initiative. But
Stronghold: has the least "speed gaps" between units and if led by Terek + expert haste..........hehehe....
and tower can wait with its great shooters.

Well, maybe coz I'm a lousy player of fortress and so what I can find for fortress are these:-
* quick lv6 and fast scout = quick exploration = quick conquer of other towns = higher chance to get better units/shooters and spells in other towns........

Ah, BTW, if anyone want to test the battle potential of any town  (in full line-up), go to

http://www.mmportals.com/heroes3.html

There is a battle ground and you can download maps in which you can fight EVERY TOWN TYPE with ANY TOWN TYPE you chose on a 1-on-1 basis. Try it !



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Dingo
Dingo


Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
posted March 16, 2004 05:01 AM

Fortress also has the advantage of being fast in the Swamp terrain.  
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.

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albertarslan
albertarslan


Hired Hero
Ancient powerful wizards-DRUID
posted March 16, 2004 05:13 AM

To tell you I rarely play with Fortress, but when I play with them I usually cast haste and smash the enemy. Cause the Fortress monster are good at close range. You guys know what Hydras can when its in the middle of the enemy and might gorgons could do single great damage.
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If you intelligent share your wisdom, If you unexperienced then learn.
Come to Stonehenge if you wanna see your death.

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Thought
Thought

Tavern Dweller
Intelligent
posted January 01, 2011 07:33 PM

Hmm...not many good Fortress players I see

A good strategy I find is to get Tazar first (always a good hero at lvl 20), and get the upgraded Fly, Gorgon building fast as possible. Usually youre starting army plus a few flies and lizards suffices for the week 1 battles. Week 2, you should have large number Dragonflies, like 20ish and fair number of Mighty Gorgons, 6 to 9 usually. Take only these guys, this is enough to take down most wandering stacks, unless shooters (Fortress weak against shooters).
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Was once a noob compkiller. Then entered the library

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gorinzio
gorinzio

Tavern Dweller
posted January 05, 2011 05:14 PM

I see no one bothers with fortress (it seems)...
here is my strategy..
Main hero : tazar
expert earth magic, cast always defence and shield. If you get those two spells, tazzy will just handle any sort of physical dmg!
Expert wather magic:for teleporting hydras and mg around the battlefield.
try to get tactics offence and wisdom... all rest is just own choice!

use monarchs wisely, save them for kick shooter asses!
use always many stacks of serpent flies to get the most out of their special...

fortress can be really a pain in the ass if used correctly

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Jab
Jab


Hired Hero
posted January 06, 2011 11:04 PM

Hmmm... I would probably suggest air magic instead of water for Tazar (along with Offense, Armorer, Tactics, Logistic, Wisdom, Earth, Ballistics). You have just roughly 40% chance to get Teleport in your Fortress mage guild. You have over 10% higher chance to get haste and even higher chance to get it in other cities. And you need to be fast with fortress creatures (and then again, you can't expect to find Prayer somewhere and moreover you would you need advanced wisdom to learn it). Speed 7 is more or less a turning point (at least for me). With speed 7 and expert tactics, you can move you creatures from one side of the hex map to the other side. Mighty Gorgon has speed 6.
On the other hand... With Alkin, your mighty gorgons have basic speed 7. Therefore you don't need air magic with Alkin that much and water might be better idea (there are exceptions of course - dimension door and fly are still great spells and in some cases they might win you the game). Also because of expert bless, which might be useful for fortress creatures.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 07, 2011 12:42 PM

Ballistics?

tststs...
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Jab
Jab


Hired Hero
posted January 07, 2011 12:50 PM

Quote:
Ballistics?

tststs...

If there are many towns to conquer of course.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 07, 2011 05:20 PM

Only because you have a machine which can hit the wall every now and then?

That's a wasted skill....
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Jab
Jab


Hired Hero
posted January 07, 2011 05:58 PM
Edited by Jab at 18:01, 07 Jan 2011.

Fortress has just two flyers and one shooter. That means four other units in front of the gate. Gnolls are not useful, because they are too slow (unless you have expert haste). With advanced (/expert) ballistics, tactics and Alkin (or expert haste), you can get mighty gorgons, chaos hydras and greater balisiks inside the castle in one round.
I like maps with many towns. Thats the reason why I started to like this skill. It usually breaks the gate in the first turn.

P.S. On the other hand its still more useful with faster units from generally faster towns. Like Archangels or Arch Devils.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 08, 2011 12:52 PM

If you like maps with many towns, it means you also have the possibilty to hire flyers and shooters from those tonws..

Not to mention angels from conservatories....
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Jab
Jab


Hired Hero
posted January 08, 2011 08:11 PM

I dont like to mix units from different town. Although Fortress could really use a pack of Archangels (as any other slow town like Stronghold).
There are exceptions of course. Zombies are slow, so why not try something else with Necropolis. Like golems, elementals or even Minotaurs or Archangels - not for their ressurection ability of course . Dendroids are slow as well, but I dont like Rampart.

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Duke_Falcon
Duke_Falcon


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted January 08, 2011 09:05 PM

Fortress is an interesting town to play...
If I pick Fortress I use Tazar and try to get the followings: Expert E. magic, exp. wisdom, slow and resurrection (town portal is useful too but seems rare to appear). If I can't get the mentined 4 things I restart from new game menu.

After that you may need dragies (gold or black) or phoenix (whatever that has 2 hex attack). If there aren't such creatures things will be harder...

So, get some army (hydras, gorgons, flies, wyverns and lizards + other 2 7th level beasties, see above) and go to reap! You need the flies 'cause their speed 'cause you need the chance to move first!

So (with some luck) you start! Cast slow (with exp. e. magic ofcoz)and move as forward with your hydras as possible! In most cases the AI if slowed down usually attack the nearest stack. So AI will attack the hydras (and suck). Then your troops grind the enemy (2 hex attackers better 'cause the circling habit of AI around hydras)! If some hydras dies I resurrect them and win the battle!

I always use this tactic with fortress and usually win the game (expect against many castle\inferno 'cause their first move thingie)! Tazar's armourer speciality in higher levels renders your forces almost invincible...

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 08, 2011 09:54 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 22:03, 08 Jan 2011.

Ballistic is very important on single maps--sometimes you are dead if gate is opened, funny paradox, and with ballistic you keep your units safe on the other side-- but completely useless in multiplayer because of special rules. When playing fortress I would not refuse tactics, air and resistance as well.

In single maps wisdom is the most important skill, in multiplayer you can skip it, the core will be only the first level spells, the only exception being blind.

Note: Tazar and Crag should be banned, they are grotesque.
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Peterlerock
Peterlerock


Adventuring Hero
posted January 19, 2011 04:54 PM

The way I play Fortress:

Pick Alkin, Bron or Korbac (Tazar is too boring).

Get a secondary hero, together with his troops you can take down a lot of wandering stacks, because your gnolls are quite tough.

I don't really protect my gnolls and lizards during those fights, later on, I don't need them any more.

Build Order:

Week 1:
1. Town Hall
2. Lizards (market place if lizards are prebuilt)
3. Flies
4. Basilisks
5. Gorgons
6. Citadel
7. Castle

(if the map is very poor, day 1 market place, skip basilisks if lizards are not prebuilt)

Week2-3:
1. Mageguild
2. Blacksmith
3. Cityhall
4. Capitol
5. Wyvern
6. Hydras
7. Resource Silo
7. Upgrade MMs, Flies,...

The main wanders around with gorgons and flies and does what he needs to do.

Doesnt really matter if hydras are not reached in week 2, with flies and moos, it is very easy to creep.

The MMs alone take down AI armies sometimes.

The hero should learn water magic/wisdom/teleport or ballistic, otherwise it's a little annoying to take down castles...

I like this town a lot, because of the high defense skill your troups survive very long, and Basilisks+Moos are really strong.


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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted August 10, 2011 12:31 PM

For the record, h3trio website is down. So any interesting strategies it might've had for Fortress are no longer available.
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pdesbois
pdesbois


Adventuring Hero
posted August 11, 2011 06:07 AM
Edited by pdesbois at 06:09, 11 Aug 2011.

I believe the main problems with Fortress combine:

1) Emphasis on Defence rather than Offense;
2) Overall lower speed; and
3) 1 weak shooter + 2 average flyers

These mean that you must get lucky in the hero you choose, skills you get access to and - VERY important - spells you master.

There are arguments both sides in terms of getting archery, since this will make your only archer a little more useful (adding to that Expert Bless). But imo, you can use this 1 slot better.

Skillwise, I'd try for: Offense, Armorer, Tactics, Resist, Water Magic, Earth magic and Pathfinding. The last spot I am not sure: Logistics, Artillery, Ballistics, Intelligence, Mysticism... Depends on how you prioritise castle siege, map reach, mana recovery and marginal extra damage (artillery).

Some creatures have very high damage amplitude and more than maxing them thru Bless does wonders. Earth magic gives you the all-mighty Mass Slow and Earthquake is your must vs castles. Although Hydras and Gorgons have excellent abilities, Basiliks can petrify even Undead. The other abilities are great too, and I do not recall whether the Dragon Flies abilities compound by you Water Magic proficiency (I saw one stack Mass Dispel and Mass Weakness 7 enemy troops in a battle, how cool is that?)... Maybe I was on a terrain with that Pool effect that did that, I do not remember.

But none of this makes sense if you do not get these spells/ skills. Maybe Air Magic is great for speed. I absolutely love this town and Tazar is really impressive, how much he can lower damage suffered.

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B0rsuk
B0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted August 11, 2011 08:59 AM

Emphasis on defense rather than offense...
1. As far as castle defense is concerned - you rarely win the game by defending in your own castle. Usually it's by sieging the opponent's castle.
2. Defense skill on units - doesn't increase damage dealt. Defense is of little use for shooters too. It doesn't matter much that Fortress doesn't have shooters, because with heroes who put 60% in Defense they wouldn't deal much damage anyway. Heroes games promote the attacker. Defender can't retaliate if he's dead. Attack skill also shortens the combat which is useful against strong casters. It reduces the usefulness of Spell Power, unlike Def skill.  Defense skill is just the worse of the two.

The biggest flaw in my opinion is slow army. Fortress does ok close up. Fortress gets 2 very fast flyers, it's a hint they are meant to block shooters to let others advance. It doesn't work well in practice. Maybe if the wyvern was tougher.


Everyone is mentioning Water for Teleport and Prayer, and Air for Haste. But what about Air Shield ? That could make enemy shooters toothless.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 11, 2011 09:00 AM
Edited by JollyJoker at 09:00, 11 Aug 2011.

10 or so years ago I created strategy "papers" for all towns except Tower. Here are two passages out of it, one about Fortress and Magic, the other about the workings of Mighty Gorgons and their special which might not be known to any newbies:

Quote:
SPELLS
Magic isn't your friend, when you are playing Fortress. You can build only a three level Mage Guild, and this is a distinct disadvantage. Even though, and especially because of this fact, you don't want your heroes to be completely without magic, don't forget to buy your Beastmasters a spell book and build a mage guild as soon as possible.
Aside from the 4th and 5th level spells and the two Necro spells Fortress can't get Curse, Disguise and Protection from Earth, one Fire and two Air spells, which isn't too bad, because you won't get Air and Fire Magic anyway, so you wouldn't be able to put those spells to good use. If your heroes can acquire a Magic School skill (and at least the Witches will be able to do so), they will get Earth and/or Water Magic, so it's a good idea to have a look at Earth and Water spells of the first three levels, because these are the spells that you will be able to use to the best effect.
Shield, Slow, Stone Skin and even Quicksand are all useful Earth spells, but your most important Earth spells are the 3rd level spells Anti-Magic and Earthquake.
More important than the Earth spells are the Water spells for Fortress. Bless, Cure, Dispel, Summon Boat (on maps with notable bodies of water only), Weakness, Forgetfulness and Teleport are all highly useful. Because of the fact that your two most important units, the Gorgons and the Hydras, are medium fast ground units, you desperately need either Dispel or Cure to protect your troops from negative spell effects.
Shield, Stone Skin and Weakness are mass spells on expert levels and either strengthen your natural high defense capabilities or weaken the opponents attack values, which is in effect the same. Your units won't excel in dealing raw damage, but (Mass) Bless changes that quite effectively, especially for your low level creatures (including Basiliks) and your Hydras. (Mass) Slow and Quicksand hamper the opponent's troops and give you an edge on the battlefield. Forgetfulness is a mass spell, too, and will shut out the enemy shooters (except Titans and Liches), so this spell is of limited use (it is best used, when defending in a town against an attacker with strong shooters), because only part of the enemy troops are affected. Expert Teleport is the offensive spell of choice for the Fortress, because it allows to Teleport your Hydras behind castle walls which is where you need them when attacking a town. If you don't have Teleport and your hero hasn't got Ballistics (on a higher level), consider casting Earthquake, when besieging a town. On expert level 4 wall sections are affected, and you need those walls to come down as soon as possible. On maps with much water Summon Boat can come in handy, because on expert level this spell creates a boat, if you haven't got one, which is a rather cheap way of getting boats, where you need them.


Quote:
GORGONS/MIGHTY GORGONS
A truly exceptional unit. While normal Gorgons are somewhat slow, sturdy (70 HPs!) bulls with low Attack and high Defense Value, Mighty Gorgons are the most deadly creatures around. Forget Archangels and Arch Devils, forget Black and Gold Dragons, forget Titans, forget Ancient Behemoths. They are dead meat, when facing Mighty Gorgons. You shouldn't buy Gorgons, but wait with recruiting them, until they have been upgraded. If you recruit them, don't take just a few. Take at least 11 with you. Now, let's have a closer look at them. They have the most HPs (70) and the best Defense Value (16) of all 5th level creatures (70), so they are REAL sturdy. They have relatively low Attack and Damage Value, meaning they won't do that much NORMAL damage. They have the most interesting special ability of all creatures, the Death Stare. And you get all that for 600 Gold apiece!
Let's have a closer look at their special. EVERY SINGLE MG has a 10% chance to deathstare one opponent up to a maximum of one deathstared opponent per 10 MGs. This is the time for some number crunching, so here are a few probabilities:
# of MGs       %chance to kill AT LEAST 1          2          3         4 opponents
1                                       10%                                    -          -                   -
2                                       19%                                    -          -                   -
5                                       41%                                    -          -                   -
10                                     65%                                    -          -                   -
11                                     68.5%                              30%       -                   -
15                                     79.5%                              45%       -                   -
20                                     88%                                 61%       -                   -
21                                     89%                                 63.5%    35%             -
25                                     93%                                 73%       46%             -
30                                     96%                                  81.5%   59%             -
31                                     96%                                  83%      61%           37.5%
40                                     98.5%                               92%      77.5%        57.5%
This is quite an interesting table - in more than one way. You should first note, that beginning with 10 MGs your chances to deathstare at least one opponent are 2 out of 3 and better. The second thing you'll note is, that while 1 MG has a 10% chance to deathstare 1 opponent, 11 MGs have a 30% chance to kill 2, 21 MGs have a 35% chance to kill 3 and 31 MGs have a 37.5% chance to kill 4 opponents. This leads to the following obvious conclusion: THE MORE MGs YOU HAVE, THE HIGHER THE CHANCES TO DEATHSTARE THE POSSIBLE MAXIMUM OF OPPONENTS! In other words, if you have 75 MGs your chances to deathstare 8 opponents are higher than your chances to deathstare 3 opponents with 25 MGs. Conclusion: Horde your MGs.
Another interesting point is the following: Should you DIVIDE your MGs in two or even more stacks (and leave Gnolls or Lizard Warriors at home)? The first rule is: NEVER DIVIDE A STACK OF MGs numbering 11, 21, 31, 41 and so on. With all numbers ending on 1 your chances are best, when you leave them in one stack. Interestingly enough, from a probability point of view you should divide any other number of MGs in at least 2 stacks. Example: You have 2 MGs. If attacking in one stack you have a 19% chance to deathstare one opponent. If attacking with two stacks of 1 MG each, you have the same 19% to deathstare 1 opponent, but now it is an AT LEAST chance, because in reality your chances to deathstare 1 opponent are 18%, while you have a 1% chance to deathstare 2 opponents. A more obvious example: you have 30 MGs (probabilities see above). Now you split it in two stacks with 15 MGs each. You now suddenly have a 20% chance to deathstare FOUR opponents (a chance you don't have, when attacking with one stack of 30 MGs), while your AT-LEAST-CHANCES don't get worse. (By the way, it doesn't really matter HOW you split them, but you shouldn't split them 20-10, obviously.)
Of course, splitting your stack of MGs might have disadvantages. If the resulting stacks are too small, they might get attritioned down by low level units, so my adivice is: DON'T CONSIDER SPLITTING, IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT AT LEAST 32 MGs!
Having this awesome special ability, the target of choice for the MGs are 7th level units. Don't bother to attack those 7th level units with other stacks to use up their retaliation. The MGs can stand quite a punch. If the enemy has 15 Archangels and you have 48 MGs (you may have even more by the time the enemy can muster 15 AAs), don't despair. The Archangels may not know it, but they are dead meat. Consider this. With their first attack the MGs will kill 5, probably 6 AAs. The retaliation of the AAs won't kill more than 10 MGs (at most). Two more attacks will leave one or two, but you will still have 25 to 30 MGs. So go ahead and kill those weaklings. 6th and even lower level units should only be attacked, if there are no 7th level units available. DON'T WASTE YOUR GORGONS WITH ATTACKS ON HIGH NUMBERS OF LOW LEVEL UNITS. This is the task of your Hydras.
The only snag is the fact, that UNDEAD ARE NOT AFFECTED BY THE DEATH STARE. So if battling a Necropolis' Force you can't rely on them (see there).


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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted August 11, 2011 09:24 AM

"You won't get air anyways?"

????
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