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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Fortress Strategy.
Thread: Fortress Strategy. This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV
xlnt
xlnt


Known Hero
posted January 08, 2014 12:47 PM

Path-finding is ok in WT/TE versions for combos or on the temp i hate,  no.. loath - Jebus..

in vanilla the town was nice because of turn1 7 basilisks + 2 wyverns (ok, there is a chance ) (can beat (some) lots shooters on turn 1)

- in later multiplayer versions (TE/WT) - the t1 2wyverns + powerful heroes remained the reason why
- collecting lvl6 from the map + starting with a specialist (Broghild) in TE/WT was a good reason why
- beating topia with 3/5 hydras and some flies was a reason why
- killing lots/horde of walkers with 1 hydra and 1 fly was a good reason why
- getting lvl5/7 dwell + castle week 1 is nice (cheap buildings, can go moo OR hydra)
- 13 (max.) speed week1/2 is not the worst...
- overall good heroes, not the best at tactics/logistics/earth - but still nice chances

p.s. ...8 years of playing HoMM3 and saying turn 2/3 Behemoths is weak is beyond me, not related, but i just can't pass it... (Stronghold is .. so fast and hard...)

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mckarpow
mckarpow

Tavern Dweller
posted January 08, 2014 02:23 PM

But fortress units have no penalty on most terrains, do they? Am I wrong or is it a change that was made???

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted January 08, 2014 03:12 PM

mckarpow said:
But fortress units have no penalty on most terrains, do they? Am I wrong or is it a change that was made???



There are four terrain types that provide a movement penalty when moving over it: Rough, Sand, Snow and Swamp. The respective movement penalties are 25%, 50%, 50% and 75% respectively, without Pathfinding. Each level of Pathfinding reduces the movement penalty by 25%, which means that in order to reduce the Swamp movement penalty to 0%, you need Expert level Pathfinding.

However, creatures native to the terrain suffer no movement penalty at all. Fortress creatures are native to Swamp terrain. Hence, Fortress creatures only suffer a movement penalty when moving on Snow, Sand or Rough terrain, none of which is as high as the Swamp terrain penalty.

This makes Pathfinding least useful to them, out of all the different races.

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mckarpow
mckarpow

Tavern Dweller
posted January 08, 2014 08:59 PM

Maurice said:
mckarpow said:
But fortress units have no penalty on most terrains, do they? Am I wrong or is it a change that was made???



There are four terrain types that provide a movement penalty when moving over it: Rough, Sand, Snow and Swamp. The respective movement penalties are 25%, 50%, 50% and 75% respectively, without Pathfinding. Each level of Pathfinding reduces the movement penalty by 25%, which means that in order to reduce the Swamp movement penalty to 0%, you need Expert level Pathfinding.

However, creatures native to the terrain suffer no movement penalty at all. Fortress creatures are native to Swamp terrain. Hence, Fortress creatures only suffer a movement penalty when moving on Snow, Sand or Rough terrain, none of which is as high as the Swamp terrain penalty.

This makes Pathfinding least useful to them, out of all the different races.


Thanks. I knew about 4 terrain types with a movement penalty, but I thought that fortress has penalty only on sand, which of course would be illogical.

Ok, Nevertheless pathfinding doesn't seem a good skill for fortress(or maybe unless you play against tower or something like that). If it is as you stated that each level of pathfinding reduces the movement penalty by 25 perecentage points (to be precise, because if it reduces the penalty by 25% it would mean that on expert level you have (1-0,75)*75% penalty on swamp, (1-0,75)*50% and (1-0,75)*25% on other terrains what as I've deducted is not the case)then there is no real difference between advanced level pathfinding and expert level for heroes with only fortress creatures, because advanced level already completely removes a movement penalty on other types of terrain than swamp, but on swamp there is no penalty for fortress anyway.

Let me apologize for my english, it's ages I haven't written anything in that beautifull language.
____________

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xlnt
xlnt


Known Hero
posted January 09, 2014 08:58 AM
Edited by xlnt at 08:59, 09 Jan 2014.

Path-finding is mostly used in templates where there are treasury zones with snow/sand or because of the angels in the group and in TE/WT versions there are combinations of skills with it.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted January 09, 2014 11:16 AM
Edited by Maurice at 16:57, 09 Jan 2014.

As far as I know, a Hero with Expert Pathfinding has no movement penalties anywhere. It's a flat-out substraction of the skill from the penalty. Indeed, as you say, for a Hero with only Fortress troops, the rank of Advanced Pathfinding is just as good as Expert Pathfinding.

From a Heroes 3 wiki:
Quote:
Hero will consume the movement points when he moves on the map. The basic cost for moving horizontally or vertically is 100 points and 141 points for moving diagonally. Terrain penalty will increase this cost by 175% on swamp, 150% on snow or sand and 125% on rough. Other types of terrain do not cause penalty. All creatures have one native terrain, which means that if a hero is moving on a terrain with terrain penalty, and all the creatures in hero's army are native to that terrain, the terrain penalty is eliminated. This basically concerns three towns: fortress whose creatures has swamp, tower whose creature has snow, and stronghold whose creatures has rough as native terrain. Additionally, a hero can eliminate terrain penalty of sand if he has at least one nomad on his army, because of their sandwalker special ability. Also, pathfinding secondary skill completely eliminates terrain penalties.

Moving on roads is also an exception to terrain penalty rule. No matter where the roads are laid, they always reduce the movement cost from the basic costs (100 or 141). Dirt roads reduce these cost by 75%, gravel roads reduce the costs by 65% and cobblestone road reduce the cost by 50%. This means, that traveling on dirt roads consumes 75 points, traveling on gravel road consumes 65 and traveling on cobblestone consumes 50 moving points. As for moving diagonally, traveling on dirt roads consumes 106 points, traveling on gravel road consumes 92 and traveling on cobblestone consumes 71 moving points.



Some other info:
- Every Hero starts with a default of 1500 Movement points each turn.
- Depending on the lowest Speed of creatures accompanying that Hero, a bonus may be applied. Speed 4 gives 1560, 5 gives 1630, 6 gives 1700, 7 gives 1760, 8 gives 1830, 9 gives 1900, 10 gives 1960 and 11 and higher gives 2000;
- Logistics skill increases this base value by 10%, 20% and 30% respectively for each skill level;
- Stables give +400 for the remainder of the week;
- Boots of Speed give +600 while worn;
- Equestrians Gloves give +300 while worn (note, even if you can wear two pairs of gloves, the bonus only applies once);

- For movement on sea, the basic movement is always 1500, regardless of which creatures accompany the Hero;
- Navigation skill increases the base movement rate by 50% per skill level;
- Each Lighthouse controlled by the owner of the Hero grants +500 movement;
- The Necklace of Ocean Guidance gives +1000 movement;
- The Sea Captain's Hat gives +600 movement;

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted January 10, 2014 06:36 PM

Strange that the relic sea captains hat only gives 600 mp while the level 3 neclace gives 1000 mp.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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mckarpow
mckarpow

Tavern Dweller
posted January 11, 2014 05:37 PM
Edited by mckarpow at 17:51, 11 Jan 2014.

maretti said:
Strange that the relic sea captains hat only gives 600 mp while the level 3 neclace gives 1000 mp.


There are also other benefits:

Worn on the head, this hat gives gives the following advantages to the hero:

   Increases the hero's Movement at Sea.
   Protects from the Whirlpool's effect.
   Gives the hero expert Summon Boat and Scuttle Boat.

BTW. You are quite strong player, aren't you? I've seen your game with dungeon on panic template on youtube. It was really, really cool.I haven't found any your game on youtube on balance template, you don't play it that much or just haven't made a video? I've only seen the other games with castle and tower and jebus, but I don't like jebus, it seems to me it's kind of a mess whith so many heroes, so many recources and so on, I prefer poorer maps. (panic is quite poor, I know)

____________

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Skeleton_King
Skeleton_King


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted January 11, 2014 10:26 PM

maretti i fk ur goat

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b0rsuk
b0rsuk


Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
posted September 26, 2016 10:34 AM
Edited by b0rsuk at 11:04, 26 Sep 2016.

Fortress doesn't cease to intrigue me. Here's something unusual I noticed about the town:

Very many creatures with on-attack abilities.
Dragon Fly - Weakness
Basilisk - Stoning
Mighty Gorgon - Death Stare
Wyvern Monarch - Venom

How do we maximize the number of attacks ? Leadership and Counterstrike spell.
Now I know it's a pipe dream especially in multiplayer, but I would like to see Fortress with Air Magic + Expert Leadership. Air Magic will grant you Expert Haste, Expert Air Shield, and Expert Counterstrike. And with Counterstrike, your creatures are extremely hard to gang up on. Hydras technically don't have a per-attack ability, but do try taking them down with Counterstrike! Morale from Leadership would serve a similar role: more enemies to cover with Weakness, Stoning, more Death Gaze, more poisoned creatures.

You probably want to take Resistance so your Counterstrike/Haste/Air Shield is not too easily dispelled.

Either way I think Fortress should take Leadership because those 'critical hits' are going to hurt.

Wyvern Monarch - they're rather overpriced and not good for the level, but the venom is absolutely devastating if applied at the start of battle and not dispelled. It reduces max HP, so it's similar to Disrupting Ray over time, but more deadly (also affects direct damage spells). The unit loses 30% of its max HP over 3 turns.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 26, 2016 11:06 AM

I love Fortress, mainly because it's a hard and different town to play and it's got some interesting creatures.
Never cared much for Leadership, but I suppose it could be good if you can utilize all those Fortress abilities. Expert Counterstrike would be awesome, but Air Magic is kinda hard for Fortress heroes to learn and they can't learn Counterstrike at their own towns.
But Water Magic works wonders for Fortress, Bless, Cure, Teleport, Forgetfulness and Prayer and Clone. (If you can learn them)  
Still what Fortress does best is defending, defending a town and meeting the opposition in your moat, they will be lost in the swamp forever.  

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