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Dwarfurious
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 11:28 PM |
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I see the idea of a Warlord/Commander unit just fine, to inspire the moral of other human haven troops. Stronghold had Chieftains that did this.
But as far as non-humanoid would go...
A Dancing Sword. A giant enchanted holy sword, acts of its own free will. Not a lot of vulnerabilities when you're a sword.
Inspiration from Warlords Battlecry 3, Knight faction has Dancing Swords as a mid-tier infantry.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted August 22, 2014 11:29 PM |
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LizardWarrior said: Werewolves don't fit as champion creatures, they should be elite at best...
+1
It's difficult to find beasts that fit Haven. They have to be 'tamed' ones, like Griffin, Wolf and Horses.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 11:48 PM |
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This is why I want a steampunk Haven so they can get a big bad mech as their Champion!
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 11:53 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 10:25, 23 Aug 2014.
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I can't see a dancing sword as a Haven Champion.
Storm-Giant said: It's difficult to find beasts that fit Haven. They have to be 'tamed' ones, like Griffin, Wolf and Horses.
Yea, they have to be tamed, majestic and Angels friendly.
Then if my werewolf idea is not good enough, we scrape it off. But I wonder if there is any kind of beast left that fits the job. What other creature would live in the Empire's environment, be at least neutral or Haven friendly, and at the same time be worthy of the champion position?
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esvath
Known Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 12:05 AM |
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Stevie said: I can't see a dancing sword as a Haven Champion.
Storm-Giant said: It's difficult to find beasts that fit Haven. They have to be 'tamed' ones, like Griffin, Wolf and Horses.
Yea, they have to be tamed, majestic and Angels friendly.
Then if my werewolf idea is not good enough, we scrap it off. But I wonder if there is any kind of beast left that fits the job. What other creature would live in the Empire's environment, be at least neutral or Haven friendly, and at the same time be worthy of the champion position?
Gold dragon!!!
TBH, it is hard to find alternate champion creature for Haven because of Angel's all round competency.
Great stats? Check.
Fly? Check.
Special ability? In-combat Resurrection!
Weakness? None.
If only Angel has a glaring weakness, we could find another champion that have strength in that particular field for the alternative. The other option is: completely get rid of Angels!
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Dwarfurious
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 12:07 AM |
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Just put a Crusader on the back of a Griffin !
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 01:41 AM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 01:42, 23 Aug 2014.
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esvath said:
Stevie said: I can't see a dancing sword as a Haven Champion.
Storm-Giant said: It's difficult to find beasts that fit Haven. They have to be 'tamed' ones, like Griffin, Wolf and Horses.
Yea, they have to be tamed, majestic and Angels friendly.
Then if my werewolf idea is not good enough, we scrap it off. But I wonder if there is any kind of beast left that fits the job. What other creature would live in the Empire's environment, be at least neutral or Haven friendly, and at the same time be worthy of the champion position?
Gold dragon!!!
TBH, it is hard to find alternate champion creature for Haven because of Angel's all round competency.
Great stats? Check.
Fly? Check.
Special ability? In-combat Resurrection!
Weakness? None.
If only Angel has a glaring weakness, we could find another champion that have strength in that particular field for the alternative. The other option is: completely get rid of Angels!
Oh Angels have huge weakness in my eyes, they are boring to death.
EDIT: When Stevie asked, I also thought about Gold Dragon, or it doesn't have to be Gold but some sort of Dragon that will be the Avatar of Elrath, it can fit them quite well.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Dwarfurious
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 02:11 AM |
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Could just be this
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Atronach
Hired Hero
Fired Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 09:17 AM |
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RMZ1989 said: I also thought about Gold Dragon, or it doesn't have to be Gold but some sort of Dragon that will be the Avatar of Elrath, it can fit them quite well.
Don't we have enough dragons already? Remember HoMM 5, where 3 out of 8 factions had dragons. I think that was too much. If a faction can get away with not having dragons, it should, and Haven is one faction that has no need for dragons, because it has Angels.
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To the victor go the spoils.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 23, 2014 09:31 AM |
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esvath said: Gold dragon!!!
TBH, it is hard to find alternate champion creature for Haven because of Angel's all round competency.
Great stats? Check.
Fly? Check.
Special ability? In-combat Resurrection!
Weakness? None.
If only Angel has a glaring weakness, we could find another champion that have strength in that particular field for the alternative. The other option is: completely get rid of Angels!
Gold dragon is not even a bad pick in that Elrath sort of is a golden dragon. But as with the other suggestions - Valkyrie, Pegasus Rider, Griffin (Rider) - like you say, they are sort of made redundant by the Angels.
Maybe the solution would be to change the Angels into some other wingless celestial creature (Archon? There was some other form mentioned in a thread at some time but I have forgotten their name) - if the choice was between a non-flying fragile resurrecting creature vs. an awesomely powerful flying a creature, perhaps the choice would be less clear-cut?
Otherwise, I'm also leaning towards Xerox idea of some sort of mechanical unit. It doesn't even have to be a steampunk type of unit, Haven is like epitome of medieval Europe knights, and a big bad-ass warmachine could work in that theme. We saw this also in H4 with the ballista and didn't one of the expansions add a champion catapult to Haven? That could work, but obviously the problem is that we already have faction-unique war machine units in H7.
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted August 23, 2014 09:39 AM |
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Edited by VOKIALBG at 09:42, 23 Aug 2014.
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Dwarfurious said: Just put a Crusader on the back of a Griffin !
Already told it. I think its going to work fine. And I'm sure that if someone try to search in some bible like book there will be at least one creature that fit in.
And why not some guy that have wolf pet instead of the wolf.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted August 23, 2014 09:48 AM |
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Atronach said: Don't we have enough dragons already? Remember HoMM 5, where 3 out of 8 factions had dragons. I think that was too much.
Oh, hell no! BURN!!!
Back to the topic: maybe Rat Swarm (trained of course)? Or dancing bear?
But seriously, they can always create some "new creature" like for instance a hybrid between ox or rhinceros etc. Lorewise they can always say that those beast were so overused in warfare, that they've died out, and that's why they don't appear in different Heroes games...
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 10:01 AM |
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Atronach said:
RMZ1989 said: I also thought about Gold Dragon, or it doesn't have to be Gold but some sort of Dragon that will be the Avatar of Elrath, it can fit them quite well.
Don't we have enough dragons already? Remember HoMM 5, where 3 out of 8 factions had dragons. I think that was too much. If a faction can get away with not having dragons, it should, and Haven is one faction that has no need for dragons, because it has Angels.
I would agree with you if it was H6 or H5, but here we have 2 champions for each faction, and then you realize that we will have 6 faction so if out of 12 champions 3 are Dragons, I don't have problem with that at all.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Atronach
Hired Hero
Fired Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 10:06 AM |
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I liked the way it was done in HoMM 4. You had the more expensive low-growth Angel, and the cheaper, more abundant, but weaker Champion. This isn't the only way to do it, but it's one possibility. Another idea is to bring back something like the HoMM 1 and HoMM 2 Holy Swordsman in a Tin Can, which is a better design than the generic-looking Swordbearer.
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To the victor go the spoils.
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Dwarfurious
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 10:07 AM |
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And im not sure if the Magma Dragon should count either, hes got no wings, and hes made of magma. Hes more of a lava elemental, shaped as dinosaur, and raised by badasses. I cant remember if he was actually stronger than black dragons 1 on 1, more health/defense but less damage. Could be buffed/healed though.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 23, 2014 10:23 AM |
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blob2 said: But seriously, they can always create some "new creature" like for instance a hybrid between ox or rhinceros etc. Lorewise they can always say that those beast were so overused in warfare, that they've died out, and that's why they don't appear in different Heroes games...
Something like a LOTR Oliphaunt might actually work, although if my memory doesn't fail me these were servants of the bad guys, making them more likely to appear in Stronghold.
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted August 23, 2014 10:27 AM |
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I was just going to post about war elephants, but the theme of the town is more oriented to West Medieval Europe.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 10:32 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 12:07, 23 Aug 2014.
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Oliphant is indeed more fitting of stronghold.
A shiny dragon as the other champion for a faction that must inspire savagery is kinda meh. And we don't really need more dragons tbh. That's why I'm trying to think of some beast, some biological creature that would fit as Wolf Dutchy champion. Magical creatures feel too refined for them.
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Sleeping_Sun
Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
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posted August 23, 2014 11:01 AM |
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What about Tarasque?
It is connected to the Western Europe (France) and it is connected to religion in a way...
It could be incorporated into a story this way: During Naga invasion of wolf duchy the beast came from the sea to terrorize the local population (of Haven), but the priests of Elrath managed to tame the beast and now it serves the wolf duchy as a mighty war beast...
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"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 23, 2014 11:04 AM |
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Dwarfurious said: Could just be this
I was thinking something along those lines
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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