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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted June 11, 2015 09:22 AM |
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Yesterday I was playing the 4-player map. Due to the weird flags that are all over the place and how closely they resemble one another, I failed to notice I hadn't actually flagged my Sawmill. Only at day 20 did I realise I didn't have enough Wood to continue building and noticed that it wasn't accumulating at that point.
I know that such a mistake would be apparent a whole lot sooner in H3 for instance - and not just because of the flag on the mine!
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted June 11, 2015 09:42 AM |
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What is the problem exactly? Just adjust starting resources!
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted June 11, 2015 09:59 AM |
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Visibility is obviously a problem in HVII. Colors are dull and there is not enough contrast between background and interactable objects. For some reason creatures auras disappear making them even more obscure. On top of that cursor is not precise, making identifying and picking up resources pain in the @ss sometimes.
And about resources: on these two maps that we got there is just too many unguarded resources. Resource piles give too much (there should be only 1 of rare resources in the pile and maximum of 3 of common ones). I don't think there is big problem with building cost, its just that there is abundance of easy to get rare resources on given maps.
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Malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted June 11, 2015 11:24 AM |
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How could you balance a game with 7 ressources anyway...
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Malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted June 11, 2015 12:07 PM |
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What i would have done.. with 4 ressources
Ore / Wood : give now one extra ressource. These ressources are melt
- used for upgrade ballista, catapult, pyramid from start of each battle. buy or destroy an adventure object map
- two factions need less of this ressource for building due to their aggressivity (Necropolis and Barabarian)
- two faction need more due to their defensivity (Haven and Donjon)
- Fort, citadel, elite creature, champion creature are the expensive building of this ressource (primarily used to increase the scale value of the castle, two mines of this type is required to build all buildings as fast as it s possible)
Gold ressource :
- used for upgrade tents / Aids and some other warfare units (don t know them)
- principaly most used for two faction (Sylve and Academy)
- Buy scroll as soon as the building is done
Two rare ressources :
- Champion building cost 100%/0% or 50%/50%
- Used for strongest core and elite buildings, and some other buildings.
- Champion units cost
- Spell Buildings ... Special Building...
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 11, 2015 12:14 PM |
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Please, I had enough of Heroes 6 to know where that leads to. Resource diversity worked 15 years ago and it will work again given the right balance and the right values in building costs.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted June 11, 2015 12:18 PM |
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Well, developers of Heroes I, II, III, IV and V were able to balance the building costs even with 7 resources present, so this is certainly doable. Yet again, Limbic's lack of experience comes to the first place and causes more mess with game's design.
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 11, 2015 12:39 PM |
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kiryu133 said:
Report 2
The amount and severity of bugs has led my commanding officer to bring out the ultimatum: This is not a beta but an alpha and he has ordered immediate evacuation of all forces. I repeat: all forces are to evacuate immediately. There are just too many bugs.
Cpl. Kiryu
After a presentation on features and the structure of the H7, Erwan LeBreton was accosted by a Heroes Community member.
"Your theory that this game is well balanced, structurally working and free of any mistakes made in its core design, and that the game is proudly standing on its own strong feet, has a very convincing ring to it, Mr. LeBreton, but it's wrong. I've got another theory," said the HC-member.
"And what is that, community member?" Inquired Erwan politely.
"That the whole game structure stands on the back of a giant bug."
Not wishing to demolish this absurd little theory by bringing to bear the masses of secret evidence he had at his command, Erwan decided to gently dissuade his opponent by making her see some of the inadequacies of her position.
"If your theory is correct, madam," he asked, "what does this "bug" stand on?"
"You're a very clever man, Mr. LeBreton, and that's a very good question," replied the community member, "but I have an answer to it. And it is this: The first bug stands on the back of a second, far larger, bug, who stands directly under him."
"But what does this second bug stand on?" persisted Erwan patiently.
To this the HC-member crowed triumphantly. "It's no use, Mr. Erwan – it's bugs all the way down."
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Malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted June 11, 2015 01:03 PM |
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Edited by Malax83 at 14:08, 11 Jun 2015.
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I sum up in a sheet how i enjoy Heroes of might and magic.
With 4 ressources and what there are used for (Ore/Wood are melt, 2 rares ressources, Gold).
sign + : need a few more ressources than usual
sign - : need less ressources than usual
4 Ressources H7
I ve done this to explain how match up could be more strategic, in a term of economy. In this case, there s potientally more challenge to prevent your opponent to pick his mines.
I just present you a (better?) way to simplify 7 ressource to 4 ressources, i m not saying it s impossible to balance.
7 ressources came from Heroes 3, and it had never been think again (excluding H6). Comments are welcome ...
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted June 11, 2015 01:25 PM |
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ThatRedSarah said:
After a presentation on features and the structure of the H7, Erwan LeBreton was accosted by a Heroes Community member.
"Your theory that this game is well balanced, structurally working and free of any mistakes made in its core design, and that the game is proudly standing on its own strong feet, has a very convincing ring to it, Mr. LeBreton, but it's wrong. I've got another theory," said the HC-member.
"And what is that, community member?" Inquired Erwan politely.
"That the whole game structure stands on the back of a giant bug."
Not wishing to demolish this absurd little theory by bringing to bear the masses of secret evidence he had at his command, Erwan decided to gently dissuade his opponent by making her see some of the inadequacies of her position.
"If your theory is correct, madam," he asked, "what does this "bug" stand on?"
"You're a very clever man, Mr. LeBreton, and that's a very good question," replied the community member, "but I have an answer to it. And it is this: The first bug stands on the back of a second, far larger, bug, who stands directly under him."
"But what does this second bug stand on?" persisted Erwan patiently.
To this the HC-member crowed triumphantly. "It's no use, Mr. Erwan – it's bugs all the way down."
I don't know what any of that was but I like it.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted June 11, 2015 02:03 PM |
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Malax83 said:
With 4 ressources and what there are used for (Ore/Wood are melt, 2 rares ressources, Gold).
It's "resource", with a single s at the beginning.
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EvilP
Promising
Known Hero
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posted June 11, 2015 02:08 PM |
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 11, 2015 02:16 PM |
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted June 11, 2015 02:32 PM |
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I have to admit that with a bit of resource management the amount of resources is indeed superfluous. The resource cost of buildings could indeed be a bit higher, but the biggest culprit is the huge stacks of rare resources lying around (for free) everywhere. Whether this is to make the game faster for us, a reaction to the uninterestingly small resource piles of H6, or just a balancing issue I don't know. For guarded piles of resources I don't mind them being a bit rich, but the piles of resources lying around without guardians shouldn't contain more than a few resources each.
On a different note:
Is it me or does the casting stage not work? It is supposed to curse two random enemy stacks during battles in your towns AoC, but so far it did nothing for me 
____________
Can you make a faction including these units?
Join the Finding Harmony competition 2.0!
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted June 11, 2015 02:32 PM |
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Neither did i... it was a very pleasant surprise.
It does show some commitment and willfulness to see the game be as stable as possible...
Unless they had it all ready and did it just to throw dust in our eyes...
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 11, 2015 02:55 PM |
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I'll just put a quick comparison on academy building prices from my last game and prices from h5 as comparison.
Cabir:
2 wood, 3 ore, 700g
5 wood, 2 ore, 1dsteel, 650g
H5 gremlin:
5 ore, 500g
5 ore, 1500g
Gargoyle:
5 ore, 2 crystal, 450g
5 ore, 2 crystal, 450g
h5 gargoyle:
5 ore, 1200g
2400g
Golem:
8 ore, 1100g
5 ore, 3 crystal, 1000g
H5 golem:
5 ore, 5 mercury, 5 gems, 1500g
5 wood, 5 ore, 5 sulfur, 2500g
Discipline:
8 wood, 2 crystal, 3400g
10 wood, 2 crystal, 2 silver, 3000g
H5 mage:
10 ore, 10 sulfur, 5 gems, 2200g
10 wood, 10 crystal, 5 gems, 5000g
Djinn:
7 wood, 3 ore, 2 dragonsteel, 3700g
7 wood, 2 crystal, 3 dsteel, 3300
H5 djinn:
10 wood, 5 ore, 10 mercury, 2500g
5 wood, 5 mercury, 6000g
Rakshasa:
10 wood, 5 crystal, 3 dsteel, 6700g
2 wood, 8 ore, 3 crystal, 2dsteel, 1 ssteel, 6000g
H5 Rakshasa:
10 ore, 5 crystal, 5 sulfur, 10 gems, 5000g
10 ore, 10 crystal, 10 sulfur, 8000g
Simurgh:
15 wood, 10 ore, 10 crystal, 5 silver, 12000g
15 wood, 10 ore, 10 crystal, 5 silver, 12000g
Titan:
10 wood, 15 ore, 5 crystal, 5 silver, dsteel
H5 titan:
10 ore, 10 wood, 5 gems, 12000g
10 ore, 10 wood, 10 gems, 12000g
As you can see champion is close to same price, sorry I don't have upgraded titan building available for price so saying just in general.
Rakshasa is way cheaper in h7
Djinn way cheaper in h7
Mage way cheaper in h7
Golem way cheaper in h7
Gargoyle is about the same
Cabir is slightly more expensive
What you should take into account though is that resources are much easier to come by in h7. You get 1 random rare/day in h7 + 1 crystal/day compared to 1 gem/day from h5 at your town.
You also get boosts to production from skills(+1 ore&wood/day, + 1 random rare/day, +250/500/750 gold/day from economy) compared to possible +250g/day in h5
and possibly earth spell which gave +1 ore&wood per day I think(maybe more on skilled mage?).
The pricing applies to the town in general all the same. H7 prices are much lower. I think only thing that's more expensive is capital since it uses the h6 pricing of requiring 10 wood&ore. If you look at the building prices even in general it just seems they changed h6 price to h7 resource-system putting small increase to "strong" versions.
As I see it, the game needs higher priced buildings, smaller resource piles and less resource-boosts. Even h6 town-chart seems good to me compared to h7. Also less requirements for buildings as too many connected to each other and some logic there would also be nice. For example simurgh/titan only requires:
1: Cabir foundry<-stone parapet(2 buildings)
2: Altar of wishes<-town portal<-MG II<-MG I(4 buildings)
I can almost see the logic why all these buildings are required to be build all around the city for this one building. Too much requirements just takes all the freedom from player as to what they can build. Also all the optional "choice"-buildings give me no real option if I play seriously as their choice is pretty much do you want to advance in the game or would you like to turtle for the rest of the game... Granted, artificier I could give away since rares are worthless anyway(and it doesn't work) so some useless defensive building would be better basically.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted June 11, 2015 03:18 PM |
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Malax83 said:
How could you balance a game with 7 ressources anyway...
Yeah, it's not like we had 5 Heroes games balanced around 7 resources...yeahhhh.
____________
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 11, 2015 03:26 PM |
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ThatRedSarah
Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 11, 2015 03:33 PM |
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Avirosb said:
I don't know what any of that was but I like it.
Haha im happy that you liked it though 
Its just a silly version of this nice story:
Turtles all the way down.
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Malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted June 11, 2015 04:02 PM |
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TD said:
The pricing applies to the town in general all the same. H7 prices are much lower. I think only thing that's more expensive is capital since it uses the h6 pricing of requiring 10 wood&ore. If you look at the building prices even in general it just seems they changed h6 price to h7 resource-system putting small increase to "strong" versions.
As I see it, the game needs higher priced buildings, smaller resource piles and less resource-boosts...
I notice best core and elite units aren t more expensive, prices aren t round (comparing to H5)... without talking gold scale, rare resources aren t well used and not restrictive.
Changing cost of building would be silly cause it already has been studyed in previous versions, and as it has been said, it was not too bad ...
i thought less resources would simplify the distribution on the map.
Maybe for now they didn t focus on this part of the game but more about important changes.
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