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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted July 08, 2015 09:46 PM |
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real question is why all heroes can only have 3 GM's 
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 08, 2015 09:49 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Avonu said:
Dark Elves (according to beta) have 3 x Dark Magic (+1 Prime)...
Wow, where do they find the people they put to designing this game? 
given the "consistency" of every might and magic class i'm suspecting a machine with a certain algorithm designed the classes...
btw the fact that water magic is absent gives me hope for a future sanctuary appearence..
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted July 08, 2015 09:49 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Wow, where do they find the people they put to designing this game?
Quick summary of heroes classes GM magic schools (so far):
Haven: 2x Light, 1x Prime, 1x Fire, 1x Warcries
Academy: 3x Prime, 1x Air, 1x Earth, 1x Light
Necropolis: 2x Prime, 2x Dark
Stronghold: 1x Air, 1x Earth, 2x Warcries
Sylvan: 3x Earth, 1x Warcries
Dungeon: 3x Dark, 1x Prime, 1x Warcries
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 08, 2015 09:51 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
btw the fact that water magic is absent gives me hope for a future sanctuary appearence..
Or one of Inferno's new specialties. 
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 08, 2015 09:55 PM |
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Gryphs said:
ChrisD1 said:
btw the fact that water magic is absent gives me hope for a future sanctuary appearence..
Or one of Inferno's new specialties.
i was hoping that they left destiny for inferno in the future but...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 08, 2015 10:37 PM |
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Avonu said:
alcibiades said:
Wow, where do they find the people they put to designing this game?
Quick summary of heroes classes GM magic schools (so far):
Haven: 2x Light, 1x Prime, 1x Fire, 1x Warcries
Academy: 3x Prime, 1x Air, 1x Earth, 1x Light
Necropolis: 2x Prime, 2x Dark
Stronghold: 1x Air, 1x Earth, 2x Warcries
Sylvan: 3x Earth, 1x Warcries
Dungeon: 3x Dark, 1x Prime, 1x Warcries
Two classes with the same main skill in the same faction is already too much, that makes one of them half redundant. Three classes with the same GM skill is just plain stupid. It's not like there aren't enough skills to come up with to merit a variation of combos. Here are just a couple of viable examples:
HAVEN:
#1: Fire Magic + War Machines Inquisitor
#2: Light Magic + Leadership Priest
#3: Prime Magic + Paragon Confessor
ACADEMY:
#1: Air Magic + War Machines Battlemage
#2: Prime Magic + Water Magic Wizard
#3: Earth Magic + Paragon Enchanter
NECROPOLIS:
#1: Water Magic + Offense Necromancer
#2: Dark Magic + Paragon Embalmer
#3: Prime Magic + Defense Archon
SYLVAN:
#1: Earth Magic + Warfare Thornsower
#2: Light Magic + Paragon Mystic
#3: Air Magic + Destiny Starsinger
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted July 08, 2015 10:54 PM |
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Fire is also underused, so a possible Inferno-thing can be planned if things get that far.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted July 08, 2015 10:55 PM |
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Do you suppose that Dungeon could prove to be a Sanctuary V1.1?
Reworked Pearl Priestess as Medusa
Reworked Kappa as Troglodyte (it is possible)
Reworked Kenshi as Soulless (Maybe i am going too far, but still)
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted July 08, 2015 10:56 PM |
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alcibiades said:
Two classes with the same main skill in the same faction is already too much, that makes one of them half redundant. Three classes with the same GM skill is just plain stupid. It's not like there aren't enough skills to come up with to merit a variation of combos. Here are just a couple of viable examples:
well you see Alc, the imbalance in skill distribution crippling the game is because they are designing a system for all factions of the world of Ashan in advance,
the vanilla version will be such a smashing success even with a few minor crippling flaws like these that the money will roll in, and the remaining three factions will inevitably be produced, you see
just like in Heroes 6, you see
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 08, 2015 10:59 PM |
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Too bad Ubi will keep the game snow. But hey, it has super duper graphics!
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Not even that lmao
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted July 08, 2015 11:02 PM |
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articun said:
Do you suppose that Dungeon could prove to be a Sanctuary V1.1?
Sounds uninspired so you are probably right.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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MiniaAr
Hired Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 09:37 AM |
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Edited by MiniaAr at 09:40, 09 Jul 2015.
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alcibiades said:
Avonu said:
alcibiades said:
Wow, where do they find the people they put to designing this game?
Quick summary of heroes classes GM magic schools (so far):
Haven: 2x Light, 1x Prime, 1x Fire, 1x Warcries
Academy: 3x Prime, 1x Air, 1x Earth, 1x Light
Necropolis: 2x Prime, 2x Dark
Stronghold: 1x Air, 1x Earth, 2x Warcries
Sylvan: 3x Earth, 1x Warcries
Dungeon: 3x Dark, 1x Prime, 1x Warcries
Two classes with the same main skill in the same faction is already too much, that makes one of them half redundant. Three classes with the same GM skill is just plain stupid. It's not like there aren't enough skills to come up with to merit a variation of combos. Here are just a couple of viable examples:
HAVEN:
#1: Fire Magic + War Machines Inquisitor
#2: Light Magic + Leadership Priest
#3: Prime Magic + Paragon Confessor
ACADEMY:
#1: Air Magic + War Machines Battlemage
#2: Prime Magic + Water Magic Wizard
#3: Earth Magic + Paragon Enchanter
NECROPOLIS:
#1: Water Magic + Offense Necromancer
#2: Dark Magic + Paragon Embalmer
#3: Prime Magic + Defense Archon
SYLVAN:
#1: Earth Magic + Warfare Thornsower
#2: Light Magic + Paragon Mystic
#3: Air Magic + Destiny Starsinger
This sounds actually much better than what we have at the moment. I'm somewhat unconvinced with Water Magic for Necromancer. I would have thought that Earth Magic would have been better (earth for Embalmer and Dark for Necromancer in my opinion). Other than that, you nailed it. 
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 09, 2015 11:37 AM |
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MiniaAr said:
I'm somewhat unconvinced with Water Magic for Necromancer. I would have thought that Earth Magic would have been better (earth for Embalmer and Dark for Necromancer in my opinion). Other than that, you nailed it.
Personally I'd rename the Mystic class and give them Water. Neither Dungeon nor Stronghold strike me as factions that'd favour Water. Sylvan, on the other hand makes sense.
In any case, it's miles ahead of what the devs came up with during development. Shame on them!
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MiniaAr
Hired Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 11:46 AM |
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Edited by MiniaAr at 11:48, 09 Jul 2015.
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Storm-Giant said:
MiniaAr said:
I'm somewhat unconvinced with Water Magic for Necromancer. I would have thought that Earth Magic would have been better (earth for Embalmer and Dark for Necromancer in my opinion). Other than that, you nailed it.
Personally I'd rename the Mystic class and give them Water. Neither Dungeon nor Stronghold strike me as factions that'd favour Water. Sylvan, on the other hand makes sense.
In any case, it's miles ahead of what the devs came up with during development. Shame on them!
You're right, if water is given to someone, Sylvan is indicated. After all, they live on an island...
But then, I prefer if they keep a hero with Light specialisation, and maybe scrap Air Magic instead. Sylvan would thus have Earth, Light and Water as magic specialisations, which I like.
Speaking about Water, Sanctuary and a swamp faction should also have heroes with water magic as ultimates, but that's for DLCs (I guess/hope).
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 09, 2015 11:56 AM |
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MiniaAr said:
This sounds actually much better than what we have at the moment. I'm somewhat unconvinced with Water Magic for Necromancer. I would have thought that Earth Magic would have been better (earth for Embalmer and Dark for Necromancer in my opinion). Other than that, you nailed it.
Well frankly, I threw this together in about 5 minutes, mostly just looking at the text they provided themselves in the hero descriptions. For instance, they specifically mention in the Necromancer text that they use "dark, prime and water magic to terrify, hurt, slow or freeze their enemies", which is why I went with water magic for this class to separate them from the other classes. Obviously I would myself have gone for earth magic with the Necromancer, seeing how the series has a strong link between undead and earth magic.
Same reason why I went with water magic for the Wizard; I would definitely have given the Wizard air magic and the Enchanter fire magic, but this was just a question of showing how easily one could make each class different yet still consistent with the text they provide themselves. (For the record, about the Wizard, they write: "Their knowledge of magic is quite impressive, and it is noticeable that they are among the few Masters of Water magic on the surface of Ashan." - yet they don't give this class Water magic as their specialization.)
And I agree, Earth + Water + Light are perfect schools for Sylvan. It's all about nature and growth.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted July 09, 2015 11:57 AM |
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Humans aka Haven: Fire / Air / Light
Wizards aka Academy: All
Barbarians aka Stronghold: Earth / Air and maybe Fire or Blood (unique to the faction)
Elves aka Sylvan: Earth / Light / Water
Undead aka Necropolis: Earth / Prime / Dark
Dark elves aka Dungeon: Dark / Prime / Air
Naga aka Sanctuary: Water / Earth / Air
Dwarves aka Fortress: Fire / Earth / Light (or Runes that would be unique to them)
Demons aka Inferno: Fire / Prime / Dark
Possible combinations of 3 magic schools per faction so that they don't necessarily overlap each other... Although it becomes hard...
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MiniaAr
Hired Hero
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posted July 09, 2015 12:14 PM |
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Edited by MiniaAr at 11:45, 10 Jul 2015.
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alcibiades said:
MiniaAr said:
This sounds actually much better than what we have at the moment. I'm somewhat unconvinced with Water Magic for Necromancer. I would have thought that Earth Magic would have been better (earth for Embalmer and Dark for Necromancer in my opinion). Other than that, you nailed it.
Well frankly, I threw this together in about 5 minutes, mostly just looking at the text they provided themselves in the hero descriptions. For instance, they specifically mention in the Necromancer text that they use "dark, prime and water magic to terrify, hurt, slow or freeze their enemies", which is why I went with water magic for this class to separate them from the other classes. Obviously I would myself have gone for earth magic with the Necromancer, seeing how the series has a strong link between undead and earth magic.
Same reason why I went with water magic for the Wizard; I would definitely have given the Wizard air magic and the Enchanter fire magic, but this was just a question of showing how easily one could make each class different yet still consistent with the text they provide themselves. (For the record, about the Wizard, they write: "Their knowledge of magic is quite impressive, and it is noticeable that they are among the few Masters of Water magic on the surface of Ashan." - yet they don't give this class Water magic as their specialization.)
And I agree, Earth + Water + Light are perfect schools for Sylvan. It's all about nature and growth.
I agree, they did a botched up job with the skills and the descriptions of classes. In 5 minutes it's not very difficult to get balanced and lore-compatible spécialisations for Magic classes. My own ideas (without specific order):
Sylvan: Earth - Light - Water
Necropolis: Earth - Prime - Dark
Haven: Fire - Light - Air
Academy: Air + Fire - Water+Prime - Earth + Light (they really should have all Magic schools available, except maybe Dark)
Dungeon: Dark - Fire - Prime
Stronghold: Earth - Air - (Dark?)
and then
Inferno: Fire - Dark - Prime
Sanctuary: Water - Prime - Air
Fortress: Fire - Light - Water (more Ice than Water, but given the spells)
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 09, 2015 12:31 PM |
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If I should completely re-design, I'd probably go by an approach that is separate schools into groups:
Offensive: Air, Fire
Defensive: Water, Earth
Alignment: Light, Dark
Joker: Prime
As a start, I'd give each faction one offensive school, one defensive school and one alignment school - however, Prime as the "joker" could substitute for either of those as fitting for the theme of the faction. Each faction would also have a favored class.
A spread according to that system would look like this:
FACTION OFFENSIVE DEFENSIVE ALIGNMENT BONUS
Haven Fire Water Light
Academy Air Water Prime Fire
Necropolis Prime Earth Dark
Sylvan Air? Earth Light
Dungeon Fire Earth Dark
Stronghold Air Earth -
I think this gives a fairly good spread and also matches the legacy from Heroes 3 pretty well. However in this scheme, Sylvan would have Earth + Air + Light instead of Earth + Water + Light, so that's a downside.
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articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted July 09, 2015 12:35 PM |
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alcibiades said:
If I should completely re-design, I'd probably go by an approach that is separate schools into groups:
Offensive: Air, Fire
Defensive: Water, Earth
Alignment: Light, Dark
Joker: Prime
As a start, I'd give each faction one offensive school, one defensive school and one alignment school - however, Prime as the "joker" could substitute for either of those as fitting for the theme of the faction. Each faction would also have a favored class.
A spread according to that system would look like this:
FACTION OFFENSIVE DEFENSIVE ALIGNMENT BONUS
Haven Fire Water Light
Academy Air Water Prime Fire
Necropolis Prime Earth Dark
Sylvan Air? Earth Light
Dungeon Fire Earth Dark
Stronghold Air Earth -
I think this gives a fairly good spread and also matches the legacy from Heroes 3 pretty well. However in this scheme, Sylvan would have Earth + Air + Light instead of Earth + Water + Light, so that's a downside.
It should be Air to Haven and not Water since in Ashan Humans are the creations of Ylath Dragon of Air, so their innate tendency is towards that element. And i do believe that Water should be one of the Schools for Sylvan... you can't have a garden without water
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted July 09, 2015 01:09 PM |
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articun said:
It should be Air to Haven and not Water since in Ashan[...]
Siiiiiigh
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
