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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 18, 2018 06:34 PM |
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So has anyone actually tried the new Resistance and gotten some hands on experience with it? (I have'nt yet, because I've been busy with other stuff.)
Even though I am very sceptic of the change myself, we can't really comment on it, without having tried it ourselves.
My biggest concern is still Gold Dragons, before they at least had a chance to avoid Implosion, now they don't and debuff spells seems even better than before.
Another thing is this new Resistance is kind of a reverse Sorcery. Sorcery increases your spells damage (aka Spell Power) new Resistance decreases enemies Spell Power. The difference is new Resistance also affects other spells than damage spells.
Should'nt Sorcery have the same percentage as Resistance then and perhaps also affect other spells?
Whatever you do from here on with the magic system and skills, I hope it will be good and won't alienate too many fans.
But like you have said yourselves lots of times you try to keep in mind what NWC would have done and what's appropiate in regards to the original game. So don't change the game design too much or people might forget they are playing Heroes 3...
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pellish
Famous Hero
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posted March 18, 2018 06:43 PM |
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This is only a death threat away from the situation with the Forge.
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galo11
Hired Hero
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posted March 18, 2018 07:13 PM |
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I will join the malcontents team. I also do not like the next change that eliminates the element of randomness from the game. Of course, this makes the multiplayer game "more fair", but only in terms of ranking games.
The element of randomness has always been a lot of fun in regular multiplayer games. Whoever never laughed out loud, destroying happiness of the co-players in the hot seat mode after receiving a "better" spell in guild or good skill, who never was happy when co-player had to choose between Luck and Resistance or got weak spells on the 4th or 5th level, let be the first to throw a stone. It seems to me that the fact that some skills are "weaker" than others is an important element to diversify the game.
In my opinion first bad move was to introduce the possibility of changing spells in the Guild. You can turn this "innovation" off, but the drastic change of mechanics HotA Crew introduced now is mandatory. OK, both of them are good for multiplayer "fair" tournament, but hey, there is lots of people who want just to play game that they loved 20 years ago with some fresh elements.
I agree with the previous speakers that the HotA Crew policy - "it's our work and we will do it as we like it - take it or leave it" is completely acceptable (indeed it is their work), but it makes people like me just losing interest in this mod (unfortunately it is no longer an "add-on").
I've been playing HoMM3 since the premiere, once every day, now occasionally (several times a year I make a few-day marathon, sometimes alone sometimes with wife or colleagues) and I'm afraid that at some stage I will simply not find myself in HotA. Perhaps the proposed changes will be super-interesting for young enthusiasts or pro players, but the old farts playing just for fun (and, let's face it, because of nostalgia) would be just irritate.
Dear HotA members, if you read this, please consider if it would be good way to think about preparing two versions of HotA:
1st in which the Authors will let their imagination run wild and implement every single change/improvement they want,
2nd HotA Crew would limit their influence to add excellent elements that they prepared (castles, units, objects, etc.), fix bugs while leave original game mechanics untouched. I think it will not be lots of work while it let you make many people very happy.
Please, think about it; it could be even called "OPE - old prick edition", I do not care, I would be extra happy to see all new elements (in excellent quality presented by you) in game I have played for 20 years.
"You will not teach the old dog new tricks."
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Winston
Known Hero
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posted March 18, 2018 09:13 PM |
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I will be playing the VCMI port of Hota from now on instead of the hota download itself. It's just not fun to play the game with all of the changes to the original game instead of purely only new additions. That's what WoG is for, and Hota is just another WoG-style mod as far as I'm concerned.
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Chrizum
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 18, 2018 09:25 PM |
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I respect the HotA crew immensely, they've done a terrific job of keeping HoMM3 fresh.
However, I really don't like changing the game's fundamentals. Yes, many elements are flawed, but they are what made HoMM3 the game we all love and have been playing for almost 20 years. The new resistance skill may be better balanced, but it's not HoMM3 anymore.
To dive a little deeper into this change, I also think it doesn't make sense from a role playing point of view. Resistance is about protecting your forces from harmful magic. With this change, you are weakening the enemy's magic, regardless if they're using buff spells or summons or damage spells. It doesn't make any sense. If anything, it should be a totally new skill, something like "Magic Suppression" or something.
Just my 2 cents. I won't be updating to the new versions, also because my friends I play with accept tampering with the game's mechanics even less than I do.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted March 18, 2018 10:24 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 10:20, 19 Mar 2018.
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I think that the original HoMM3 creators deliberately made some skills useless to get some lottery element.
While I agree that a major rebalancing will take some kind of randomness (the make-or-brake randomness) it will still keep the randomness which skills you will get. With different sets of roughly equally useful skills you will even have different game tactics to choose from.
I'm looking forward to the changes. New challenges are ahead, we need to explore new ways of gameplay instead of relying on reeling the age-old strategy dos and don'ts.
However w.r.t. mapmakers and multiplayer gamers I think there should be a point when the balancing is considered stable instead of back and forth tweaking.
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Mateusz
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 19, 2018 12:54 AM |
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Edited by Mateusz at 00:57, 19 Mar 2018.
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Hi everyone,
Honestly, I'm not an active user here but I have quite important thing to ask.
Firstly something about Ressistance (because it's hot now xD). For me PERFECT CHANGE. Old effect was dumb, completely random and annoying. Nice work HotA crew.
Ok, next, more important thing. I'm organizer of Heroes III Polish Championship. That's the biggest tournament in history of this game. We had 529 registered players at the beginning. And I'm also one of the co-creators of "Arena Konwentowa 2.5" (very popular map for duels).
My first question to HotA Crew: Is it possible to be in touch with me some way? Your big changes were released during our Championship and sometimes it is danger for tournament. Fortunatelly resistance case is not. But I can imagine for example that we organize a big final (probably on May) and in this day you have some work, lobby changes or something what paralyze this big and beatiful event.
My second question to HotA Crew: Is it possible some way to "block" random seed which is responsible for obstacles on battlefield? Why I'm asking. We have special tournament map, also very popular in for fun gaming through lobby "Arena konwentowa 2.5". The main concept of this map is to make hero, choose some artifacts and troops and perform a hard-fought final fight. On this map players always have three "squares" on the map to fight with different setting of obstacles. I sacrified a lot of time to find nice three squares in the row with good setting. But every new version of HotA change random seed and now, because of changes in battlefield Arena Konwentowa is definietly worse
My email adress: mateusz.jarzembski@gazeta.pl
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 19, 2018 01:04 AM |
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Despise agreeing with the people that complain about Resistance being now some kind of Shater Magic, my biggest problem is with Mass-Slow and Mass-Haste. I agree they are completely broken, yet I've tested dozens of battles using them and I'm pretty sure the entire community of mapmakers has tested hundreds of thousands, if not millions. To think all this work will be reviewed is delusional, to do it in the name of multiplayer balance myopic.
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Popcioslav
Hired Hero
The best H4 unit
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posted March 19, 2018 03:31 AM |
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bloodsucker said: Despise agreeing with the people that complain about Resistance being now some kind of Shater Magic, my biggest problem is with Mass-Slow and Mass-Haste. I agree they are completely broken, yet I've tested dozens of battles using them and I'm pretty sure the entire community of mapmakers has tested hundreds of thousands, if not millions. To think all this work will be reviewed is delusional, to do it in the name of multiplayer balance myopic.
I've actually disabled Haste and Slow for the last two maps I've designed.
You can call me a killjoy, but I'd argue it makes the whole experience much more enjoyable and challenging for everyone. I agree with your comment though.
pellish said: This is only a death threat away from the situation with the Forge.
You're not helping to be honest. Critique is always important for the health of the entire project. Sure, some people will always dislike changes, biggest reason why people were mad at Forge was because they didn't know M&M roots and were afraid H3 will be ruined as it is.
Hota is kind of its own thing, but yes, I am one of the few people who also felt that hota was more of an expansion to the original, than just another mod changes the original experience.
Guess we can only have one of two.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted March 19, 2018 05:13 AM |
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phoenix4ever said: So don't change the game design too much or people might forget they are playing Heroes 3...
You're propably the person who has most edited Hota. Did you forgot that you're playing Homm3 while experiencing all your selfmade modifications at once?
pellish said: This is only a death threat away from the situation with the Forge.
Popcioslav said:
You're not helping to be honest. Critique is always important for the health of the entire project. Sure, some people will always dislike changes, biggest reason why people were mad at Forge was because they didn't know M&M roots and were afraid H3 will be ruined as it is.
While Pellish is clearly joking, he's statement is something to think of.
Hota has given 4 great YEARS of quality content to the English-speaking community. Yet when they make a change to a rarely picked secondary skill, some users express their opinions in a way that it makes me wonder have these people forgot how FUN they have had with hota within all these years.
Hota is 100% free - and while I'm by no means saying that no critique can be given - I would like to point out that the only currency we can give them is respect towards them and their project.
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Gerglie
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 19, 2018 05:31 AM |
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I cannot express how happy I am to see these changes being made. Heroes 3 has long been a near-perfect game in almost every respect -- except balance.
Useless or explicitly inferior options do not make the game more interesting -- especially when you are already very familiar with it. They are instead options which are disappointingly missing from the game.
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StrikerX
Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
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posted March 19, 2018 05:57 AM |
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Edited by StrikerX at 06:27, 19 Mar 2018.
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Did berserk get changed in Hota. I don't remember it being able to be mass area cast like inferno?
Entering this battle with AI Dungeon hero. He immediately cast berserk on 4!! of my troops at once. I've noticed this before in previous games as well.
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Alyx182008
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 19, 2018 06:42 AM |
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StrikerX said: Did berserk get changed in Hota. I don't remember it being able to be mass area cast like inferno?
Entering this battle with AI Dungeon hero. He immediately cast berserk on 4!! of my troops at once. I've noticed this before in previous games as well.
No, that's normal vanilla behavior. You just need Expert Fire Magic.
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Alyx182008
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 19, 2018 06:52 AM |
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pellish said: This is only a death threat away from the situation with the Forge.
That's not gonna happen. While some, that maybe play more casually, will steer away from HoTA if this is the direction that it takes, the competitive players will embrace this mod/addon/expansion and call it THE version to play. And I'm sure that will be more than enough players to be worth the effort to create this. Evidence of this, is the already significant number of people who have expressed their love and support for the new Resistance skill. So no need to be that pessimistic.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 19, 2018 07:15 AM |
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Popcioslav said:
I've actually disabled Haste and Slow for the last two maps I've designed.
You can call me a killjoy, but I'd argue it makes the whole experience much more enjoyable and challenging for everyone.
On the contrary, I totally agree with you. But it has to be a choice of the mapmaker. Again, mapmakers being able to do whatever they want is great but it's not what HotA was about.
StrikerX said: Did berserk get changed in Hota. I don't remember it being able to be mass area cast like inferno?
Entering this battle with AI Dungeon hero. He immediately cast berserk on 4!! of my troops at once. I've noticed this before in previous games as well.
Nope, that is how the spell works from the beginning, the thing is: AI wasn't coded to use Berserk and now it is.
This one I think it was a great bug-correction, btw.
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StrikerX
Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
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posted March 19, 2018 08:15 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
Nope, that is how the spell works from the beginning, the thing is: AI wasn't coded to use Berserk and now it is.
This one I think it was a great bug-correction, btw.
Ah. Yeah that's fine it's been fixed but I knew it had to be something different cause I played alot of heroes 3 way back when. Definately hurts when 4 huge stacks attack each other Luckily I had mass dispel this time and was able to counter before that happened.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 19, 2018 08:30 AM |
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Hourglass said: You're propably the person who has most edited Hota. Did you forgot that you're playing Homm3 while experiencing all your selfmade modifications at once?
You are right, I have done a lot of changes to the game myself.
Lately I have been finding myself reverting some things to original state though and what I have been concerned most about is balance and that's why I have changed some skills, artifacts, spells and neutral creatures, but that was only to make them more reasonable as I considered them underpowered or overpowered before.
I have'nt completely changed a skill as HotA though, Resistance is still Resistance and not suddenly "Supress Enemy Magic".
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pellish
Famous Hero
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posted March 19, 2018 10:23 AM |
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Hourglass said:
Hota has given 4 great YEARS of quality content to the English-speaking community. Yet when they make a change to a rarely picked secondary skill, some users express their opinions in a way that it makes me wonder have these people forgot how FUN they have had with hota within all these years.
Hota is 100% free - and while I'm by no means saying that no critique can be given - I would like to point out that the only currency we can give them is respect towards them and their project.
Good post. I agree completely.
Popcioslav said:
pellish said: This is only a death threat away from the situation with the Forge.
You're not helping to be honest. Critique is always important for the health of the entire project. Sure, some people will always dislike changes, biggest reason why people were mad at Forge was because they didn't know M&M roots and were afraid H3 will be ruined as it is.
Hota is kind of its own thing, but yes, I am one of the few people who also felt that hota was more of an expansion to the original, than just another mod changes the original experience.
Guess we can only have one of two.
Am I to assume you don't understand sarcasm? Didn't you just sarcastically rate this version 10/10 because of one spruce tree? How was that of more help than my comment?
I guess you're not "helping" either then.
phoenix4ever said:
I have'nt completely changed a skill as HotA though, Resistance is still Resistance and not suddenly "Supress Enemy Magic".
That's because you don't know how to do it. I bet you would if you could. You criticizing someone for editing "core gameplay" when you have a three-page thread about changing even more than the HotA crew ever did is pretty ironic.
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Popcioslav
Hired Hero
The best H4 unit
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posted March 19, 2018 10:43 AM |
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pellish said:
Am I to assume you don't understand sarcasm? Didn't you just sarcastically rate this version 10/10 because of one spruce tree? How was that of more help than my comment?
I guess you're not "helping" either then.
Sarcasm? What's that? And don't you dare insult that tree! It really is a game changer!
Nah but it seriously flew over my head, guess I was just too tired to notice sarcasm in text despite still being sarcastic on my own. Sorry for that. And speaking of being helpful I'm working on something that I hope will be enough of a help in this situation, but we'll see how it goes, I'm still in the middle of testing these balance changes.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted March 19, 2018 11:33 AM |
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pellish said: That's because you don't know how to do it. I bet you would if you could. You criticizing someone for editing "core gameplay" when you have a three-page thread about changing even more than the HotA crew ever did is pretty ironic.
No I would'nt, Resistance was a skill I was pretty satisfied with, except for the weird 5/10/20 progression.
Sure I have done a lot of changes and yes more than HotA does, but I consider my changes different from this Resistance nerf.
What HotA did here, was to eliminate a random factor, to make it more fair for tournament players. What is next step?, removing morale and luck from the game?
They also removed a random factor with the ability to change your Mage Guild, so everyone is guaranteed Slow, Town Portal, Resurrection etc., another change I don't like, at least that can be turned off.
My point is there are different kinds of changes and mine does'nt change the core gameplay like that.
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