Good question. There were some thoughts about posting an update around this timeframe, but I can't guarantee it. The work that can go into an update can be more than even just making a new creature dwelling, both in the town screen and adventure map. Besides the fact that the next update scheduled would likely be a full-fledged one, with video and renders and all that.
But alright, I'll put a new update higher on the immediate priority list. =p
____________ Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
@ FirePaladin:
Might be an annoying question...But it would be interesting to know what is still left to do for completion of a release version. I know giving kind of a date wouldn't make any sense. But like: Is coding still a work area or is it just about visuals and campain...something like that.
All areas, to various degrees.
Visually, it's less so creatures, with some exceptions. But there is good progress in many other areas, too.
@TrueMefista
Forge is a town just like any other, except it can simply be turned off, and its design is unique a bit, just like Conflux's is. So yes, it has alternate creatures.
____________ Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
Forge is a town just like any other, except it can simply be turned off, and its design is unique a bit, just like Conflux's is. So yes, it has alternate creatures.
It's a nice setting, personally I really don't like Forge, even if the screen with the road in the center is super, so I'll disable it in my games
The holidays are over, and many of us are back to our usual routines and hobbies. The same goes for the Day of Reckoning team, and this means that it is time for an update. The past several months saw substantial development in areas like visuals and music, and while the final product is still not there yet, we would like to share some of our recent progress with you. We also want to discuss some overdue matters which were not previously covered, such as the subtleties of Palace’s design, some of the mod’s other features, our design philosophy, as well as the Grotto and Forge. Of course, while still making sure to not spoil too much, and to keep surprises for future updates, too. Lastly, we will talk a bit about the prospects of joining the team.
Palace – The Winterland Town of Snow Elves
The Palace town was revealed back during New Year 2021-2022; well, “revealed” is a bit of a strong term, in this case. The old version of the town was merely teased and shown, and the only explanatory posts about it were bits and pieces of information in creature updates and forum replies, which the readers had to piece together with the material shown in order to form a picture. Heroes 3 towns are self-explanatory, as is Palace, but it makes sense for us to share the town’s vision in a concise post, and expand on related matters as well, for newcomers and old-timers alike.
A work-in-progress Palace town screen
In the MM series, Vori has always been a mysterious island to the North-West of the main Antagarich continent. Even if it was featured in Heroes Chronicles and mentioned several times in MM8, we hardly got to know anything about it: cheesemaking Frost Giants, Vikings, it being inhabited by Snow Elves, Gelu being half Snow Elf, and an ill-fitting Rampart stand-in in a Heroes Chronicles campaign that takes place on Vori is pretty much all that the fans have ever seen or gotten to know about Vori. But that is where Palace comes in.
The Palace embodies the harsh beauty of the north – vast, timeless expanses of iridescent snow, snow-topped forests, as well as clear, starry skies and shimmering lights. Yet, there is also a tinge of nostalgia, as well as the powerful and unforgiving frost and nature. This very idea carries the town’s whole concept, and it is reflected in all of its aspects, from the town screen to the now visually-revised creature lineup, and even its musical theme.
The Palace lineup at the moment; on the left, the more earthly, viking lineup, and on the right, the more divine, Norse lineup
The wintery, frozen home of the Palace
Mythologically, the town follows the likeliest route which NWC would have pursued for the “winter town” representing the mysterious and timeless island of Vori: hardy Vikings, aided by creatures of the frozen winterlands, be they more savage in nature, such as the Sabertooths and Frost Giants, or be they pagano-divine, Asgardian, such as the Snow Elves and Valkyries. The distinctive Frost Giants and Valkyries are not only meant to serve as Norse creatures for the town, but also to expand the game’s roster of “giant” and “holy/unholy” creatures beyond just the Titans and Angels, as the “dragons” have already received such treatment with the addition of the neutral dragons in AB. We must not forget that the town also represents the Snow Elves’ civilizations, and we already have the Stronghold as a Barbarian town. Thus, the town must lean into a “divine Valhalla” aspect, as a town of the Norse gods and their Jarls and Oracles. Backing up this direction is a lesser known, but quite interesting fact: David Mullich, one of the game’s lead designers, was a big fan of Tolkien and his works, which expand beyond just The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. In Tolkien’s world, the elves were highly inspired by Norse concepts, including their affinity with Light, as well as their life cycle; the Halls of Mandos and Valinor are equivalent to concepts such as Valhalla and the Paradise (of Enroth), respectively. Furthermore, the Vori island itself is, in ways, similar to Valinor. Both are remote, isolated lands “across the sea”, both are ruled or inhabited primarily by elves, and both are some kind of ancestral place for the elven civilizations.
A slightly updated Snow Elf and High Elf evolution chart; note how the Snow Elf’s design is more grounded now, with the fur, while the High Elf is narratively more flexible thanks to his colors
As is customary in Heroes 3, the Palace town does not limit itself to Nordic culture: just like in Rampart, the primary elven town, hints of Asian cultures are also present, and in Palace’s case, they are mostly Chinese. This is also in part due to the Azure Dragons native to Vori being present in Chinese mythology, and the White Tiger being one of the Four Great Auspicious Beasts of Chinese mythos. The town seamlessly blends these aspects into an eclectic mix. Helping this is the fact that dragon heads and ornaments are a common theme in both cultures, as are matters relating to astrology and divination. The White Tiger, for example, can embody a “prehistoric” beast of the snow trained by the Vikings, or a magical guardian beast of the lands.
Most unique in this marriage are the Kirin and Sacred Kirin. While back-referencing the creature of the same name from Heroes 6, and having primarily Chinese roots, its design borrows from the Norse wyrm dragons such as Jörmungandr or Fafnir, too, solidifying its place in the lineup. Thus, their slightly serpentine body, their scales, their dragonoid features, and them being found in the context of a Nordic town. Beyond that, there is also an association with the stars and the Northern Lights, which can be seen at the shimmering, night sky-colored scales of the upgrade, as well as the wintery magic seeping out of its tail and chest. This respects the creature’s original depictions, while still aiming at making the design as grounded as can be.
The Sacred Kirin’s “Northern Lights”, animated
The evolution of the Kirin and Sacred Kirin thus far; some of the design’s high-fantasy aspects were overhauled, thanks to feedback and the team’s increasing experience with the style of Heroes 3
Norse dragons, as depicted by northern civilizations
Chinese depictions of kirins; notice the red strokes of paint around the chest and tail, meant to represent energy
We could go into greater depth explaining the subtler aspects of the Palace and what themes it fulfills, such as its connection with Vori being a trope “mirage island” like St. Brendan’s Island, but this suffices for this update; after all, Day of Reckoning is not only about the Palace, and the community is looking forward to other aspects of the mod as well.
Design Philosophy and Progress
It is no shame to admit that in its early days, the project’s quality bar was not very high; still rather high given its status as a Heroes 3 fan-mod, but not yet matching the original game. A comparison of the same map between the original teaser trailer and a regular, present-day screenshot of DoR makes that clear:
The creature evolution sheets, such as those shown earlier, tell the same story. The community has partaken in most of the Palace’s development, and the gradual transition from overly magical and slightly off visuals to more cohesive and grounded concepts has marked its development. Of course, we must give a big thank to the Heroes 3 community for providing substantial feedback which determined the team to adjust the town, as well as gain more insight into Heroes 3’s visual design. This transition is also one of this update’s subjects, and it relates not only to Palace, but also to the other aspects of the mod, such as alternate creatures, Forge, and Grotto. They benefitted a lot from that, which resulted in quicker and higher quality development, and thus less need to reiterate on the same things. This can be seen at the Forge town screen shown at the h3gg DoR teaser. A fun fact is that its production began merely a few months before the reveal.
Yes, the road in the middle of the Forge screen has already seen changes, as have some of the other visuals seen in the video above. The quality bar increases constantly, and as a result of that and community feedback, the content shown is improving. Internally, we now also have thorough guidelines concerning the creation of visuals and not only, things which have furthered the team’s appreciation for the game’s style. But such a subject deserves its own post – there are countless of interesting aspects to cover, and only full, proper explanations would do it justice. But for those who are curious nevertheless, you can check out one of my public posts concerning hero design in Heroes 3 (the post itself should be underneath the middle of the page).
Other Day of Reckoning Content
The Palace’s development seems to be doing well, but what about the other towns and areas of DoR? Well, that’s a good question. While much of the public focus is on the Palace, the team members are working equally as much on the other aspects as well. This means alternate creatures, spells, skills, map objects, as well as the two towns, Grotto and Forge. Yes, despite their lack of public presence, debatably more progress is being made in those areas than for Palace, and the team is enthusiastic about those concepts.
The evolution of the Arachne and Crimson Arachne from Grotto, at the moment; it was chosen to be shown in its WIP form as it is a rather self-explanatory creature, especially since MM8’s Dark Elves prominently feature spider motifs, and it does not spoil Grotto’s concept that much
The evolution of the Pyro and Pyromaniac; the creature is now as tall as other humans, per community feedback
Saboteurs casting “Disable Construct” on the Iron Golems; it is a spell which can affect golems and machinery alike.
A question which might arise from reviewing Palace’s lineup posted above is that of whether the town will feature two alternate creatures or not. That is indeed the case. The aim of alternate creatures is not to cause a lack of balance, but to add more flavor to the towns and expand upon their aspects, as well as buff weaker towns and cover gameplay niches. And that is certainly the case in Palace.
Regarding new spells and skills, we still wish to keep a certain secrecy around them. But I can say that there is one “campaign” skill which will be introduced in DoR 1.0, besides the faction skills of Palace and Grotto, Initiative and Vitality. For those who are not aware, Initiative is a counterpart of Tactics: while Tactics allows you to manipulate the creatures’ “movement”, Initiative allows you to boost the “initiative” (turn order) of one of your creatures, in the first turn. Vitality, on the other hand, is a Health-boosting skill. While not better than Armorer against creature attacks, it is also effective against spells, as opposed to Armorer, which is not.
Wrapping It Up
I hope that you enjoyed this DoR update, and look forward to more to come! We, the team, are always open to hearing your feedback and are quite chill, which contrasts well with the strictness of the project’s quality and design. And speaking of being chill, we are willing to invite new members – there is always something to do, and we enjoy chatting and discussing with like-minded people. If you like Day of Reckoning, are enthusiastic about Heroes 3 and/or HoMM as a whole, are a promising artist, programmer or have other useful skills and some free time, do not hesitate to contact us! Sending me an HCM on the forum, or writing to `firepaladin` on Discord should suffice.
____________ Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
TrueMefista said:Nice update, so many beautiful things to stare at.
I am a bit against hooveless kirin (altho the horse-with-fu manchu-stashe is more silly), but the rest is great.
The whole idea of Kirins was based off "Firewolves" from the cancelled H5 NWC installment. It has evolved beyond just being a reference, but the hooveless-ness remained.
____________
"I would urge some caution. This honeypot is full of bees!"
Looks much better, really cool creatures and objects, and the city screen is on a super high level.
I have a question about the most interesting part, in my opinion: is the project being made for an existing platform (VCMI, Era) or are you writing your own platform from scratch? And if you're writing from scratch, what are the most challenging problems you're currently working on?
I also wanted to write my humble criticism regarding the creatures:
1) The Vikings in the current visual style do not harmonize well with the elves and the Yuki Oni. It looks like New York in a bad sense, as if the second tier in the rampart were golems. This could be fixed by simplifying the design or simply getting rid of the creatures
2) The second-level unit does not feel like one because, both in design and concept, they look more elite. Second-level units should be simple, numerous creatures, the "basic inhabitants" of the faction. It's easy to imagine hundreds of sailors, hundreds of goblins, or wolf riders roaming around the city. They are both in design and essence mass pawns.
But it's hard to imagine that your city is inhabited by hundreds of magical girls with fans, while at the same time, dirty, uncouth Vikings live next to them. It's a very strange picture.
In summary: at least in terms of unit design, it's hard to guess its level, and the proximity to the Vikings creates huge dissonance.
3) T6 looks too cool; it's like a reduced T7. It needs to be either made thinner or it will look overly imbalanced compared to unicorns, wyverns, and manticores.
4) T7B strongly repeats the design of T1B - they literally have the same weapon and pose.
What I would do:
1. Nisse
2. Tigers
3. Ice Maidens
4. Yetis
5. Elves
6. Kirins (more slender, less colorful, and slightly more Asian)
7. Valkyries / Jotuns (with a slightly more magical design)
Thank you for the kind words, I am glad that you like our work!
@Morton
Quote:I have a question about the most interesting part, in my opinion: is the project being made for an existing platform (VCMI, Era) or are you writing your own platform from scratch? And if you're writing from scratch, what are the most challenging problems you're currently working on?
The project is based on the GOG version of the game, so that means it's not related to either VCMI or ERA. Beyond that, it is too early to talk about the specifics, but some of the (experimental) features of DoR can be seen in the h3gg teaser.
1) Vikings are a staple for such a faction, in a similar way as Crusaders are for the "holy human faction" (Castle). So it is not possible to scrap them.
2) The Ice Maidens are natural, semi-elemental ice spirits, in a similar fashion as the Gogs are semi-elemental fire spirits. This is especially visible with the animation, because their lower half is a small snow tornado. So they are no less "pawns" than creatures of a similar level, and are magical only by virtue of being made up of ice and snow.
Visually, they can still be downscaled and adjusted.
Historically, the vikings were some of the cleanest people. Although that doesn't necessarily mean much for H3, it is intended for the warrior vikings of the Palace to be the honorable, more civilized counterpart to the savage and bloody barbarians found in Stronghold. The various nods to Asgard and Valhalla intend to do the same, essentially implying that these vikings could very well be considered noble, reincarnated warriors in the armies of the Nordic gods. Of course, simply trope-wise, because Enroth is mostly devoid of gods, unlike worlds like Axeoth or Xeen, and any "god" on Enroth is not one by role, like the aforementioned "gods" of the other worlds. But that does not mean that the general idea does not apply.
3) Thinning them could be considered.
4) The T7B has a different weapon and pose. Although only the silhouette of the combat sprite was revealed, and that might make them look more similar than they actually are.
Lastly, thank you for the feedback. It is valuable!
____________ Enshackling time itself, heralds of the Ancients among their heat-depleted land.... Who could they be, who could rally the beings of the East and the North and control the mortals' fate?
Just going to add that it's not unheard of in the M&M universe that some magical humanoid units are actually weaker, or at least more frail than normal humans. It was quite clearly exemplified with the Pixies and Sprites, and even HotA did a similar thing with the Oceanids too. So just because a unit looks visually appealing, doesn't necessarily speak to its strength. I also think there have been several cases in the original game where units looked weaker or stronger than their tier suggests, for example Pit Lords from Inferno didn't look particularly visually impressive for t5's, while Mighty Gorgons or Thunderbirds almost looked too good for the tier. And don't even get me started on Centaur Captains. just my opinion tho
This thread is pages long: 
posted January 24, 2025 09:28 AM
