|
|
purerogue3
Known Hero
|
posted March 18, 2025 04:06 PM |
|
|
Anyway they're having a call this AM and let me predict the news -absolutely nothing is going to happen.
The question is how much land Putin will be willing to stop at, because the 'peace' will be very distasteful to him.
Ukraine will be 2/3rds or more female because think of the military service they will require.
Single guys go to Ukraine and clean up lol.
|
|
Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
|
|
posted March 18, 2025 05:05 PM |
|
|
purerogue3 said:
Anyway they're having a call this AM and let me predict the news -absolutely nothing is going to happen.
The question is how much land Putin will be willing to stop at, because the 'peace' will be very distasteful to him.
Ukraine will be 2/3rds or more female because think of the military service they will require.
Single guys go to Ukraine and clean up lol.
I think this isn't a discussion.. Russia has so a hell of a lot of army! Ranked 4 in the world.. Russia can ask for more troops.. So in there have female troops.. Putin wants Crimea, succeeded conqured areas, new president, when war time, president cannot be replaced by a new president, when Putin remembered Risto Ryti, so his claim, and then security guarantee, what else could be? Think about no Crimea effort, so no war, but I don't know about NATO..
Trump strikes Ukrainian back on knife.. The US leads peace, ok.. Because of money, when more than 300 billion inc. EU, and Russia spent in about 100 billion.. When losing a war, the consequences are loss of currency, etc. Debt! So one matchbox pays more than €1..
|
|
purerogue3
Known Hero
|
|
posted March 18, 2025 05:17 PM |
|
|
It's going to make the DMZ look like disneyland.
|
|
blizzard
Known Hero
Urban Legend
|
|
posted March 18, 2025 05:55 PM |
|
Edited by blizzard at 18:11, 18 Mar 2025.
|
JollyJoker said:
The declared goal of Putin is the destruction of Ukraine as we know it - to continue what has been done since the end of the 18. century. Destroying everything "Ukrainian" and replace it with "Russian". Language, culture, intellectuals, history.
And this is a quasi-fanatical view that is being planted in you by your country's major media outlets, but I can't change your mind on this. It is pretty rampant here too, but it has lost steam this past year: the narrative is that the war in Ukraine is a war for the existence of Ukraine itself, both its state and its identity as a distinct people.
Quote:
However, Trump has made it clear that the USA at least won't support Ukraine anymore, handing Putin everything he needs to end the conflict the way he wants. He has no reason whatsoever to not demand the utter maximum. And that maximum not only won't leave much of Ukraine, whatever is left will be easy to swallow as well - much like Gaza.
That is simply not true. The official plan for the moment (which is given to change depending on how things unfold) is to grant Russia concessions. What that is likely looking at right now is Putin's Russia gets Crimea, and the new territories of Kherson, Donetsk, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia. That is exactly what you would expect for anybody half-paying attention to what is going on these past few years.
As far as post-war reconstruction and arming, the plan is for security guarantees from the US, which would also include the US having shared access to Ukrainian rare earth resources. This security guarantee would give Ukraine a powerful post-war military with good air and missile and sea defense systems that would make a 2nd invasion difficult for Russia. The most probable thing to trigger a 2nd war would be if Ukraine tried to get into NATO.
You personally think Trump can't be trusted on anything. Your subjective worldview, which tends to be pretty xenophobic towards leaders outside of Europe (and that includes far more than just Trump), doesn't alter the wider reality. Zelensky himself has said recently that he believes Trump is on Ukraine's side, and that the plan if moving forward could help protect Ukraine's future as an economic player. Trump is very strongly in favor of the mineral deal, and his leadership history shows that he leans heavily into the loyalty principle, meaning that he rewards people who follow through with his deals and he punishes people who do not. This is how he behaves domestically with feuds within the GOP and with Democrats, and this is how he behaves internationally as well. Incidentally, both Zelensky and Putin have similar styles to this; so do large numbers of other world leaders. It is a pretty common leadership style. So yeah, lots and lots and lots of Adolf Hitler's out there I suppose. It must be stressful for you. I am sorry about that, and I mean it.
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 18, 2025 10:29 PM |
|
|
You are living in a fantasy land.
Predictably the telephone call between these two greats brought nothing except that Putin is willing to concede that they will allow Ukraine to stop target Russian infrastructure.
You have to start seeing things for what they are.
|
|
blizzard
Known Hero
Urban Legend
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 01:41 AM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
Predictably the telephone call between these two greats brought nothing except that Putin is willing to concede that they will allow Ukraine to stop target Russian infrastructure.
That's not true.
You could easily be fact checked for this stuff you say that isn't true.
____________
|
|
Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 04:57 AM |
|
|
I read news.. Ok I quote and google translated:
"Zelensky made a mistake in the fall of 2024, before the US presidential election.
He visited a weapons factory in Biden’s hometown of Scranton and met with Democratic candidate Kamala Harris – but declined Trump’s invitation to his villa at Mar-a-Lago.
Zelensky eventually met with Trump in New York, but Trump did not forgive the insult. That could have been decisive."
"Trump asked Zelensky to dig up dirt on Biden's son, who had shady dealings in Ukraine. Zelensky refused, and Trump retaliated by canceling a $400 million aid package."
..etc
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 09:29 AM |
|
|
blizzard said:
And this is a quasi-fanatical view that is being planted in you by your country's major media outlets,
Surely not all of them, there is this German member of the European Parliament, former UN Assistant Secretary-General Michael von der Schulenburg, who praises Trump for doing what it needs to be done, while saying that European Union lost touch with reality. Is him censured in Germany or what, this should be widely public so everyone can listen then decide.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 09:59 AM |
|
|
You can fantasize about peace and negotiations as much as you like, but as you can clearly see Russia isn't interested in peace for peace's sake.
That should be obvious, after all Russia attacked the Ukraine - and, maybe more important, kept on in the face of hard resistance. Russia has suffered from sanctions, has humiliated themselves before the Chinedse, the Iranians, even the North Koreans, to keep on. They lost their foothold in Syria because they had no capacity left to react. They had part of their own country seized for quite some time. Their economy is suffering, with every day their industry production is geared more on war.
Putin won't back down now. He won't stop until he got everything he wants. Nothing less will suffice - or justify the "sacrifices" made. He's also at war already with the rest of Europe, although on a different level.
No matter the results in the Ukraine, whatever will be left, IF anything is left - and I've been saying this for some time now without anyone listening - there won't be "peace" as we understand it.
Instead there will be sabotage and insurrection in the Ukraine, terror acts and whatnot, Russia will blame "the West" and their funding of malcontents and nazis, the rest of Europe is in the process of arming themselves up to be able to defend themselves better, when Russia finds out there are threatened Russian minorities in Estonia, Poland, Moldavia and elsewhere, and all this capital stuck in arms and armaments must be used somewhere with interest, otherwise the economy goes bust, so short of an all-out war, weapons must be exported for cash or resources on a bigger level, probably to Africa, so that they can kill each other there.
The best hope to get peace has been a sudden Putin death - playing for time - but that doesn't seem to realize, which means, now that the US have been throwing away any leverage we might have had to get Russia to the negotiation table to broker a REAL peace once they are exhausted, with Russia smelling victory now it's over. Because:
Why would Putin negotiate about something he can make happen himself, in his own power? Why would Putin be even INTERESTED in peace? He is at war since 2014 and since 3 years in earnest. So far he has survived, and with the help of the USA he's now making big progress. He hasn't shied away from death and suffering, and the one thing he cannot do is coming home empty-handed.
If you want peace in a war, it doesn't make sense to weaken the attacked - that doesn't lead to peace, that only leads to victory and defeat.
|
|
blizzard
Known Hero
Urban Legend
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 01:38 PM |
|
Edited by blizzard at 13:51, 19 Mar 2025.
|
Hysteria and paranoia.
They are interested in peace for peace's sake. They are also interested in the territorial acquisitions that I've already talked about, which will be necessary for brokering a deal. I've mentioned several times that Russia obviously can't walk away empty-handed.
Poland and the Baltics are in NATO. They are not an option for Russia. If NATO doesn't work as a deterrent, nothing we are talking about matters. We're dead.
Moldova isn't accessible without a complete takeover of Ukraine.
Russia isn't adjusted into a wartime economy to the extent that it was when it was in a war for survival. It has used a partial mobilization.
A sudden Putin death more than likely wouldn't change too much of anything, because a candidate with similar views and policies would take over. Medvedev is actually known to be a bit harsher in recent years, at least on the rhetoric. It's a bit of good cop bad cop between Putin and Medvedev. So, when there was that attack by Islamists at the concert in the outskirts of Moscow last year, Medvedev was saying, "Kill them all" and Putin's response as the head of state was more cautionary.
____________
|
|
Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 02:09 PM |
|
|
Level: Easy
Snow Trump and Putin.. No else, because I can't know their move or what's tomorrow..
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 02:19 PM |
|
|
Blindness and trust in the wrong persons.
Trump is in the process of undermining NATO on all fronts:
Canada
Greenland
Pay up or the US won't do anything
Europe isn't important.
He's just kissed Putin's ass without getting anything in the process.
And, as I said a million times, Putin ISN'T interested in peace as long as peace won't get him faster and less bloodier what he wants - or even more. Or as long as it gives him a needed respite.
HE ISN'T the part keen on peace - if he was, he wouldn't have escalated the war by invading Ukraine. Actually EUROPE is keen on peace, but Europe also knows that you cannot Trust Putin's word, since he's broken it whenever convenient.
But my feeling is, reason and logic don't work for you who want to believe that Trump is a great pres and Putin a nice guy and ignore everything pointing to the opposite direction.
We don't need to discuss this, since it will unfold anyway. And fast.
|
|
blizzard
Known Hero
Urban Legend
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 03:50 PM |
|
Edited by blizzard at 16:05, 19 Mar 2025.
|
You are repeatedly giving false information.
As it pertains to this thread and this topic, I don't care about Trump's statements related to NATO or the things he has said about Greenland (Greenland isn't Danish by choice btw, though of course it doesn't want to be American either. Most Greenlanders want to be Greenlandic). It is exceedingly doubtful the US will leave NATO or that it will seize territory within the EU. Exceedingly. Trump is making these statements in order to pressure some European countries into increasing defense spending. Europe has always been very important as a trading partner. There is also a strong cultural link with the US with countries such as the UK and France, and a shared value towards free speech and freedom of the press. Germany is more distant in that respect in terms of shared values rooted in a free society, but as a strategic ally, that is not something that is going to go away either now or in the near future. There has been a lot of saber-rattling in recent years from Germany, but governments change every few years, so whatever. People like you who don't want to compromise are on the decline, so there's reason to be optimistic about German politics and the loosening of state censorship from Berlin that it imposes on its people.
Putin agreed to temporarily halt attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure and energy. These are things that would need to be invested in with post-war reconstruction, so that is a high priority with Trump. Will it last? Don't know. But you are giving false information that Trump is giving Putin whatever he wants. It is very easy to look this stuff up and see that this is untrue.
I never called Trump a great pres. I never called Putin a great guy. I simply think the false information that these two men are psychopaths is both untrue as well as dangerous to the goal of peace. It is very clear in this thread you are not interested in peace. It's true that you don't want your own children on the front line, but that doesn't mean you want peace if you still want somebody else to be fighting, preferably nobody that you know personally.
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 05:17 PM |
|
|
You are just delivering polemic rhetoric. Russian propaganda, basically. What about Canada? 51st state? The new Canadian boss visits Europe first, not the US. Has Canada and how Trump treats them anything to do with Europe?
In truth, Europe (and that includes France and Britain) has fundamentally different ideas about what freedom is than the US and quite obviously again massively different ideas than Trump. Until Trump co-existence is possible. In the US individual freedom has a somewhat higher value compared with the good of the community. But now
free speech and freedom of the press is on the decline in the USA. It was in decline before Trump, with billionaires controlling big media outlets, but with Trump, freedom of speech has reached a new low in the US - you cannot close your eyes from that. It rapidly nears Russian levels, which is probably no happenstance, since Trump seems to love the power Putin has. You talking about Berlin state censorship is simply insolent. You have nothing but falsehoods and polemics. No points, no facts, no reason why Putin would be interested in peace, for example, no nothing.
All in all - you actually sound like Russia.
Yes, as I said, Putin allows Ukraine to stop attacks on infrastructure - coming at a point when Ukraine starts hurting Russian infrastructure with their self-developed 1000 km range missile. Convenient for Putin, not convenient for Ukraine.
But the biggest lie is you allegedly caring for Ukrainian lives. It doesn't matter what you say: Ukraine was attacked, and it's THEIR decision whether they want to fight against that or not. It seems they wanted to fight, so we helped them doing it. The moment they want to give up - THEIR decision. Not yours, not mine.
Fear has never been a good advisor and Russian propaganda makes use of that, conjuring the spectre of a nuclear war and whatnot. Germany doesn't even have nuclear weapons, while France and Britain combined have a few hundred, with only the French having subs with missiles. Nuclear war would have to come from Russia, obviously - why would anyone fear that? They have that capability anyway and if they want to they can, no matter what we do or don't.
Final verdict: you are just full of polemic and rhetoric. No ppoints, no facts, no actual arguments - just falsehoods. 
Or: you just want to rile me up - good old Blizzard game, nothing about some internet fun. But what would that make you? A troll? A c**t? Nothing good at any rate.
|
|
purerogue3
Known Hero
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 05:27 PM |
|
|
|
Never thought I'd live to see the day JJ used a female pejorative.
|
|
blizzard
Known Hero
Urban Legend
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 06:14 PM |
|
Edited by blizzard at 18:27, 19 Mar 2025.
|
I'm not trolling. The fact that what I am saying is extremely mainstream should cue you in on that.
I don't think you're trolling either. You actually believe your uncompromising stance is what will save Ukraine and save Europe. That is why I call it paternalistic, because it is. It's not an insult. It's just you telling everybody what is best for them and even going as far as telling them what they do or don't think/feel. They have been fed something, and you are here to save them.
It's also false that "Europe" backs you up, at least nearly to the degree that you think it does. It is common knowledge that Germany has a more heavy-handed approach to censorship than many other Western countries, which Europeans - particularly younger generation Europeans - are getting fed up with. They want an actual critical conversation. They don't want more paternalism from people basking in their own pretend omniscience. Your nation's grandkids are increasingly seeing things more my way.
Not responding to the whataboutism fallacy related to Trump trolling Canada about being a 51st state. That is obviously never going to happen and not a serious conversation. Again, US Politics 2024-2026 thread please. You are free to talk about the most recent bombshell statement that Trump made, although in about 24 hours it will probably be old news.
It's also false that Ukraine is/should be the sole arbitrator in peace negotiations, as if this war only had to do with Russia and Ukraine, and several other parties weren't actively engaged in one side or the other. And even if it was the sole arbitrator, the fact that their election is about a year overdue raises questions about the integrity of Zelensky's mandate. Ukraine does, of course, as a sovereign nation have the final say in whether it will accept the terms or not, but that doesn't make it the sole player. It is entirely in the purview of the USA if and how long it wishes to support the war. It does not owe Ukraine anything outside of treaty obligations, and it has no such obligations with Ukraine. It is entirely within its rights under international law to heckle and use its financial weight to reach a peace settlement. If you don't like it, and you want to keep the war going for as long as possible, you'll have to offer something for it, particularly in the form of a lot more money/weapons than what has been given so far, and quite possibly soldiers on top of it because recruitment is a serious issue for Ukraine.
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 06:26 PM |
|
|
The debate is screwed the moment the argument "Russia wants its empire back and even more" gets in. Maybe they want - as those reading in the coffee grounds tell us, but at this precise moment there is zero factual evidence, based on what Putin already said thousand times, since 2008. And based on their economy, army force and demography. Is just not feasible, show me how.
So either they want to conquer the world, and for such situation there is only one answer : crush them but risk mutual destruction ; OR, they just want what they said they want, protect Russian population in Ukraine, which now looks like annexation, while at first it wasn't on the list (Istanbul 2022 failed peace agreements). In that case, continuing to provoke the bear could lead to disastrous outcome, for almost no threat worldwide.
Looks to me Trump correctly deciphered the puzzle, while EU leaders are walking like drunk towards chaos.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 06:32 PM |
|
|
|
Since basically everything you say is untrue and parroting Russian propaganda, I consider your account hacked by some Russian paid agent.
|
|
Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 06:46 PM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
Looks to me Trump correctly deciphered the puzzle, while EU leaders are walking like drunk towards chaos.
Unfortunately, true. Viktor Orban is probably the only rational voice in that lot.
The rest are up the same alley as JJ: let the war continue, and if you think differently you're a paid Russian bot. Lol.
____________
Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
|
|
blizzard
Known Hero
Urban Legend
|
|
posted March 19, 2025 07:35 PM |
|
Edited by blizzard at 19:41, 19 Mar 2025.
|
It is the kind of cheap jibe you'd expect from somebody who lacks a coherent and rational argument. Put words into other people's mouths, and then (ironically) claim the other person is repeating propaganda.
There are billions of people out there who are Russian bots, it would seem.  My goodness. I had no idea Russia was so powerful. We need to stop them at all costs.
|
| |
|
|
This Popular Thread is pages long: 
