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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted January 16, 2008 01:04 PM |
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Quote:
sir
Mytical is a lady, just wanted to point that out.
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:lol: even anti gun has no aim against me. but many of their posts sound aggressive
No aim? Huh? And I agree with Mytical's post, we aren't being agressive towards you, just the idea. On my part I belive, and always will, that guns are a bad thing, and never helpful. I want to keep them away from my precious Heroes! It just isn't ready for muskets and things yet.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted January 16, 2008 01:05 PM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 13:23, 16 Jan 2008.
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My biggest issue with guns is that it appeals too much to a macho culture of gamers who like to think they are super-awesome para troopers in their own mind. There are more than enough games like that, and it would be a shame to see Heroes of Might and Magic walk that same, in my opinion pityfull, path - it's cheap selling tricks based on rambo-images rather than interesting and innovative gameplay and lore.
Heroes of Might and Magic doesn't need that to be succesfull and good.
Additionally, I agree heroes should stick to medieval fantasy era, and NOT move on - Age of Empires 3 didn't appeal to me just because it moved to a more boring era.
And unlike what Alci tries to make y'all believe, I DO like evolution  It's just that previous installments had some great concepts (such as Dungeon) that H5 completely ruined.
@Yasmiel: That's like my doomscenario. If heroes of Might and Magic ever went that direction, I wouldn't even bother buying it anymore.
@Landsknecht: This is nothing personal against you. I just happen to disagree 100% with you
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landsknecht
Adventuring Hero
Askin' for war :p and payments
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posted January 16, 2008 01:23 PM |
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And unlike what Alci tries to make y'all believe, I DO like evolution It's just that previous installments had some great concepts (such as Dungeon) that H5 completely ruined.
^ a big BAD concepts of Dungeons in H5.. a big pain after Nival (developer) rips off Jon van Caneghem's storyline ..... NWC concepts dungeons after roman colloseum. the entire use of slave warriors. Warlocks gains their recruits through enslavement. while dark elves are naturally Voluteers. they don't need a yoke to make them fight for a boss. instead. they use cultures and socials... as independent races. to fight wars.
in H3. all dungeon dwellers are slave warriors controlled by Warlocks magic (and sometimes. whips. and yokes)
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted January 16, 2008 01:28 PM |
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Edited by Moonlith at 13:29, 16 Jan 2008.
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Exactly, that's why I favour the H3 way of Dungeon, it was better.
Although I personally saw Dungeon more as the typical Dungeon in Dungeons and Dragons roleplaying games. With Warlocks and Overlords being the dungeon masters that controlled the monsters many a hero faced. Through mind control and slavery, I agree. Admitted, I didn't see the roman collosseum thing
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landsknecht
Adventuring Hero
Askin' for war :p and payments
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posted January 16, 2008 01:34 PM |
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:lol: just tryin to give you a clear image how does H3 dungeon works
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted January 16, 2008 02:59 PM |
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To answer questions about images on previous page, the game is called Spaceforce Captains.
Gane homepage
It is basically heroes 3 in space, but like vanilla H5 it needs a patch soon to be playabe.
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted January 16, 2008 09:27 PM |
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guns in the heroes have often got a bad response from the majority, but a good response from (me included) the minority. lets way up the arguements.
anti-gun
- guns do not fit in with the heroes franchise
- people don't want another forge town, guns are the first step towards it
- what can you do with technology that you can't do with magic
- stop whining you pro-gun lobbyists, you got your gun in the form of what the gremlin is wielding.
pro-gun
+ shows evolution during the time period, and shows that there is a definate progression on the war front, and the people at home aren't sitting about like a bunch of lemons.
+ could pave the way fro a steam-punk/clockwork faction, which is entirely consevable in the heroes world.
+the original MM series (I.e MM9) had a space age style section in it, surely that gives reason to have guns in it.
the fact on this forum is... members with anti-firearms attitude behaves very aggresive in this forum. trying to push me off-board :?
*Pushes HARD with harsh language and bitter sweet lemon magic*
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carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted January 16, 2008 09:46 PM |
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Edited by carcity at 21:48, 16 Jan 2008.
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how could anyone want guns in heroes V. i mean how would it look like. a footman comes walks two steps the he gets his head blown off by a military general with a MK47. and that military general then command his tank (ballista) to fire at the peasents.
that is not fitting in. i mean it just doesn't
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Why can't you save anybody?
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted January 16, 2008 10:43 PM |
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:lol: just tryin to give you a clear image how does H3 dungeon works
Thank you. None of us have ever played heroes III before.
Also, I agree with Moonlith's feelings about macho culture, but I disagree about Dungeon. I like the new concept, with a more sympathetic history. How can a person feel close to slave drivers? At least with the Dark Elves they have a good reason for being emo. Cepheus, why were the Warlocks of H3 Emo?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 16, 2008 11:11 PM |
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Also, I agree with Moonlith's feelings about macho culture, but I disagree about Dungeon. I like the new concept, with a more sympathetic history. How can a person feel close to slave drivers? At least with the Dark Elves they have a good reason for being emo.
Hear hear. 
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted January 16, 2008 11:13 PM |
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Oh, while you're here, was that too cheeky about never playing H3 before? I remember I said something like that and lost a QP for it a while ago.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted January 16, 2008 11:38 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 23:48, 16 Jan 2008.
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Exactly, that's why I favour the H3 way of Dungeon, it was better.
...Hear hear 
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Cepheus, why were the Warlocks of H3 Emo?
Perhaps it has something to do with the facts that:
- Many of their creations such as Minotaurs and Beholders became uncontrollable during their early years of existence, thus weakening the Warlock forces from within
- The Warlock kingdom on the continent of Enroth was reduced to a scattered brotherhood in Heroes I, following Lord Alamar's defeat
- Their brotherhood joined with Archibald Ironfist during Heroes II, and were once again utterly defeated - most of them were forced to flee across the ocean to the isle of Nighon near the continent of Antagarich
- Those few Warlocks who remained behind on Enroth were killed / driven off the continent by the party of adventurers you play as in Might and Magic VI
- The refugee Warlocks in Nighon began to serve the Dungeon Overlords and the Kreegans during Heroes III, but their attempt to conquer Erathia failed miserably
- They were then united under the Dragon Queen, Mutare - who was quite pitifully killed after losing a war against the Elves of AvLee in Heroes Chronicles: Clash of the Dragons
- Some of them travelled with Tarnum to the Snow Elven isle of Vori during Heroes Chronicles: The Sword of Frost - however, he was beaten to the Sword by Kilgor's wife... not much of a morale booster
- By the time of Heroes IV, after all these disasters over the years, the Warlocks have been beaten down so harshly that they are reduced to the pitiful existence of a multiclass between Nature and Chaos Magic
Plus how can you say that the HV Dark Elves aren't slave drivers? Have you seen those iron muzzles they put on Minotaurs?
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted January 17, 2008 04:15 AM |
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True. I think the difference is that the Warlocks brought some of it on themselves, whereas the Delves sortof had some of it forced upon them.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
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posted January 17, 2008 04:26 AM |
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Guys, this is not a discussion on "Why are Warlocks emo?". this is a discussion on "guns in H6?". back to the topic.
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how could anyone want guns in heroes V. i mean how would it look like. a footman comes walks two steps the he gets his head blown off by a military general with a MK47. and that military general then command his tank (ballista) to fire at the peasents.
that is not fitting in. i mean it just doesn't
Why is everyone thinking of modern guns??? i mean like there are old guns, which would fit in, with the crossbowman.
There are Muskets.
A musket is a muzzle-loaded, smoothbore long gun, which is intended to be fired from the shoulder. The date of origin of muskets remains unknown, but they are mentioned as early as the late 14th century in Chinese military books such as Huo Long Jing. Muskets were primarily designed for use by infantry. Improved with the introduction of rifling around 1800, muzzle loading rifled muskets (of the kind common during the Crimean War) became obsolete by the late 19th century, as cartridge breechloading repeaters superseded them. However, rifled muskets were the most common weapon used up until the late 1870s. Typical musket calibres ranged from 12 mm to 20 mm (.50 to .80 inches). Depending on the type and calibre, it could hit a man's torso at up to 200 m (218 yards), though it was only reliably accurate to about 60 m (70 yards). A soldier primarily armed with a musket had the designation musketman or musketeer.
See?
We could use a cannon or two in Heaven.
A cannon is a ginormous tubular firearm that uses gunpowder to fire a heavy projectile over a long distance. They were first used in China, and were the archetypal form of artillery. The first cannon in Europe probably appeared in Islamic and Christian Spain. English cannons were first used during the Hundred Years War, when primitive cannon were used at the Battle of Crécy in 1346. The end of the Middle Ages saw the construction of larger and more powerful cannon, and their spread in warfare throughout the world.
What do you say about that?
There are also revolvers, which could be used for a Pirate neutral.
The first revolvers were partly an attempt to improve on pepper-box type weapons, which used a revolving cylinder with one set of firing mechanisms, but which had multiple barrels as well. Firing through a single barrel saved the expense and weight of having the multiple barrels of the pepper-box. Snaphance revolvers with the most important features of the type—single fixed barrel, automatic cylinder rotation, and positive cylinder alignment—were made in the late 17th century. The earliest known specimen, now in the Tower of London armories, is dated about 1680 and attributed to John Dafte of London. Elisha Collier patented a flintlock revolver in Britain in 1818, and significant numbers were being produced in London by 1822. In 1835, Samuel Colt patented a type of revolver that became immensely popular in the Wild West in the second half of the 19th century.
Well, i just gave you 3 examples, but there are many more, and hey, we have crossbowmen in H5, and if you didn't know, crossbows were still used in World War 1, along with other guns.
So it's a good idea to include them in H6.
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texasaggie
Hired Hero
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posted January 17, 2008 04:40 AM |
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The thing is its still guns. The main reason against it is there is no reason to improve things militarily through technology. Magic instead is the main forus on military improvements. I mean why would you create guns when you can throw a fireball. They just seem unnecessary to me and unfitting in a medieval fantasy game.
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Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
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posted January 17, 2008 04:44 AM |
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so you expect a footman to throw a fireball then?
EDIT: the thing is that you sart out with Swords and stuff and then you advance to have muskets and other things. for example a crossbowman can be upgraded into a musketeer, see what i mean? there are many, many succesful games out there that with each new release of the game(Civilization, for example), a new "era" comes. a perfect example of that is Age of Empires. they started out with the most advanced units which could only use swords. then, they added some very primitive guns to the game #2. and now, Age of Empires III, has a basic unit who is a musketeer. i am not saying that they should have peasants walking around with pistols, but Gremlin with a retarted looking gun is not enough. i am saying that they should incorporate some creatures with early gunpowder weapons.
EDIT2: [sarcasm]of course, Shieldguards and Bear riders with Rocket launchers would be nice.[/sarcasm]
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Andmcmuffin2
Hired Hero
In need of Undead Avatar
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posted January 17, 2008 05:19 AM |
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GAH! MUCH TOO CONTROVERSIAL A TOPIC!
Alright, now that my angry's out...
Guns COULD be implemented in HoMMVI IF:
-they missed approx 50% of the time, depending on range
-they benefited from precise shot
-[sarcasm]Undead could use them [/sarcasm]
btw- I'm always torn between future and fantasy games, its a wonder I make it to any forums. I'm always playing.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted January 17, 2008 08:17 AM |
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For me, it's very much a question of style. If you want to put muskets into the game, you need to make the units and the buildings look contemporary to the time when muskets were used. That would bring us to something like this:
This is something quite different from the current style of the Haven faction of the game. And not only the units, but also the buildings would have to be changed - in fact, current Inferno has pretty much the style of 17th century fortifications, but sort of get's away with it because of the whole setting of that town, but if you transformed Haven into a 17th century fortification (the current one looks more like 13th or 14th century) I'm afraid it would look out of time with the other factions.
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landsknecht
Adventuring Hero
Askin' for war :p and payments
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posted January 17, 2008 09:55 AM |
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GAH! MUCH TOO CONTROVERSIAL A TOPIC!
Much of controversies BEFORE someone make a thread
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Alright, now that my angry's out...
Guns COULD be implemented in HoMMVI IF:
-they missed approx 50% of the time, depending on range
-they benefited from precise shot
-[sarcasm]Undead could use them [/sarcasm]
yes. haven faction gunmen should suffer from a big percentage of range penalty while wood elves bowmen suffers none.
sounds fair ???
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted January 17, 2008 01:07 PM |
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No, because even with a range penalty you will still be doing a lot more damage. Besides, only a few creatures can get to the musketeers in time, so they'll have to move into range.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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This thread is pages long: 
