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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: United States President: 2008
Thread: United States President: 2008 This thread is 90 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 50 60 ... 68 69 70 71 72 ... 80 90 · «PREV / NEXT»
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted November 03, 2008 03:55 PM

Quote:
As horrible as it sounds, it is Palin that buried any chance McCain had to sway me.

You and thousands of other people.   *sigh*
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted November 03, 2008 04:26 PM
Edited by OmegaDestroyer at 16:30, 03 Nov 2008.

Let's see, I live in a union state with a mostly high-school educated workforce, a large African American population, hasn't voted for a Republican president since the first President Bush, the highest unemployment, and one of the worst economies in the nation.  Think it really matters who I vote for?
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TheDeath
TheDeath


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
posted November 03, 2008 04:36 PM
Edited by TheDeath at 16:38, 03 Nov 2008.

TA, to avoid the word "naive" I think you just have too high beliefs in that. Last I remember, what a doctor does is called business. Business means, money above "workers" (or in our case, patients). There are many movies made around this, and some of them were even "inspired from real" stuff (that was a long time ago since I watched one).

It is impossible for me to believe that you have not met any kind of doctor that thinks this way (you say they are all good). The problem is, I really think you "passed by" him/her simply because you're constantly telling yourself that they care about you. Especially a doctor you haven't met before.

You can choose to believe that, but do not get angry at reality. Especially because you say that all of them are angels. Businesses are about money. A business is an investment. If a business were to choose between funding for finding a cure and a treatment that guarantees more $$$ in return in orders of magnitude multipliers compared to the original investment (while the former might even lead to bankruptcy, depending on how hard it is to find a cure), who will you choose, as a businessman? Doctors are humans as much as businessmen are. "Good doctors" are increasingly few as such because most of them do not get the "support" so to speak of such businesses. That is why "you do not hear much about them", after all media is everywhere.

Then again, look at judges, who are supposed to have "taken oaths" and "care for justice", or how does it work that is a different case?


Just simple logic. But if you believe doctors are so angelic, then you should also believe ALL priests are too. Well isn't that their "job" to care about people?
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 03, 2008 10:38 PM

Most priests are fine people with the best interests of their flock at heart. I know a priest (technically, he's a reverend, but it doesn't matter) and he is among the nicest people I know. But the difference between doctors and priests is this: if doctors did their job perfectly, then more people would be cured. If priests did their job perfectly, then nothing would really change (except for the amount of believers, of course). But then I'm speaking from an atheistic viewpoint.

And yes, doctors as businesspeople try to make a profit. But they make a profit from making people feel better, and so I have no problem with them.
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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted November 03, 2008 10:42 PM

Quote:
Most priests are fine people with the best interests of their flock at heart. I know a priest (technically, he's a reverend, but it doesn't matter) and he is among the nicest people I know. But the difference between doctors and priests is this: if doctors did their job perfectly, then more people would be cured. If priests did their job perfectly, then nothing would really change (except for the amount of believers, of course). But then I'm speaking from an atheistic viewpoint.
Well technically I meant that many people (I don't know if TA) bash many priests and the Church because it is "profit-oriented" and then blindly say that doctors are holy angels, which is kinda silly.

And of course from a religious perspective a lot would change, the spiritual experience and spiritual well being of the people etc but that's off topic.

Quote:
And yes, doctors as businesspeople try to make a profit. But they make a profit from making people feel better, and so I have no problem with them.
Don't think of the "ends" when characterizing how good a person is. Think of his/her intention, that's after all, how he/she is in reality. And if profit is above well being, then don't expect him/her to cure you if treating you is more profitable.
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 04, 2008 01:20 AM

The Death, the medical industry is so huge that they are understaffed and their earnings aren't proportional to how many people return after being treated for a cough.
Doctors don't stay awake at night wondering whether or not they will have people to treat tomorrow.
There will always be enough.
It's much more important to them to do a good job and get a good reputation, dignity and respect in the industry, as well as getting the job done to help with the medical problems, rather than to ensure that people keep coming back with the same problem.

The profit really isn't related to that at all, the problem of underpaid doctors is to do with their salaries in general and trust me, even those who feel they should be paid more, wouldn't worry in the slightest whether or not curing someone is going to have an effect on their income.

My god this is a ridiculous argument.

Quote:
do not get angry at reality

I'm getting angry at your reality, which I think we both know is far different to mine.


But, you know, maybe I'm being naive, maybe doctors secretly give us pills to make us sick so we keep coming in and so they rake in the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 04, 2008 01:24 AM

Obama's white grandmother died. My sympathies go to Barack Obama and his family.
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 04, 2008 01:25 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 01:39, 04 Nov 2008.

some election laughs to bring it to a close






















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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted November 04, 2008 07:31 AM

Quote:
The Death, the medical industry is so huge that they are understaffed and their earnings aren't proportional to how many people return after being treated for a cough.


Actually that's part of the problem. People are treated for having a cold. If you go back an read some things again, you 'll see that I wrote, that the health business is actually like selling shoes - only that they are "selling" illnesses and ailments. Of course you cannot run a cold it's course. Nope. You have to see a doctor who'll prescribe something that will suppress the coughing, so that the throat isn't going to hurt so much. On the other hand coughing is good for getting rid of the phlegm, so he will subscribe something else to make the phlegm come out, even though you are coughing less and so on.
As I said, the pharma industry tells us that you should not feel unwell. Never. That it's woefully wrong if something hurts for a couple of moments (but ask a woman how silly that is). Moreover they deal in fears about children - you have to be constantly on the look out with your children, so you don't miss the first signs of potentially dangerous illnesses and not become bad parents.

And the doctors are the willing lakeys of the industry because they are the ones who prescribe all the stuff.

Now, I don't say ALL of those docs are the same.

But docs are selling the same as Hollywood: dreams. They sell the dream that they can CURE. Most everything. But when you get older you'll see that this is a big bubble the world of medicine and the pharma industry creates, and sooner or later that bubble bursts on everyone.
Make no mistake: it IS a business as insurances: or would you say for insurances that they are out to help you? To make sure you don't suffer a loss, should anything untoward happen to you? Nope. They sell fear and make a profit out of it.
Which doesn't mean, that IF something untoward happens and you do HAVE an insurance they will pay. If you are lucky and there is no fine print. The same as if something untoward happens, a doc or hospital will help you - if you are lucky and they make no mistake. Because in reality you need them all only in SERIOUS bases, not when you cut your finger, caught a cold or have some scratch in the paint of your car.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 04, 2008 10:20 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 10:38, 04 Nov 2008.

edit:
ridiculous argument deleted and replaced with picture that made me laugh



uhm
so like
on topic?
yeah, america, try not to screw this up again for the rest of us

and this isn't over until it's over

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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with serious business
posted November 04, 2008 02:34 PM

Ok to sum it up what I had to say: the pharma industry is an industry. It is business. In a business, only those looking for profit "survive". Therefore, the doctors that you refer to as "good" aren't even noticed much in such businesses. There is always more profit in a business, no such thing as "I live good enough already" when there is competition out there. More profit will always unbalance the situation.

Seriously it's plain simply that if you go "out of business" then you won't even be noticed anymore, so to speak, and have no real chance. So what about the docs? Obviously, they are "in business" since that is why they are even there!

And @JollyJoker's point.
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JapanGamer
JapanGamer


Known Hero
posted November 05, 2008 12:28 AM

Can someone get me a URL to live coverage of the 2008 elrections? I tried all the major links but nothing but a map so far.
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 05, 2008 12:38 AM

Of course they are in it to make money.
Every profession aims to make money.

However Mytical implied that they will mistreat/not cure/not treat to the best of their ability in order to make a patient come back so that they get more money.

This is completely absurd, and a completely illogical method to earn more money.


The pharmacy industry is independent of doctors, and is irrelevant to the discussion. Besides, Joker, cold treatment isn't prescription medicine. Anyone can buy it.



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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted November 05, 2008 12:51 AM

Who's the doctor in your family TA?
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted November 05, 2008 12:59 AM

Quote:
The pharmacy industry is independent of doctors,

Erm, not really, but I do agree with your post.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted November 05, 2008 01:06 AM

Ah, they are already projecting winners of the various states.  Think the media would have learned its lesson in 2000.

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JapanGamer
JapanGamer


Known Hero
posted November 05, 2008 01:16 AM

There must be nothing online but maps so I am gonna watch it on tv at a friends, laters. Thanks but no need to respond to my previous post.
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted November 05, 2008 02:41 AM

At least CNN is streaming live results non-stop.

CNN live coverage
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
posted November 05, 2008 03:59 AM

Obama won PA and OH. It's over for McCain.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted November 05, 2008 04:25 AM
Edited by Corribus at 04:27, 05 Nov 2008.

It was over for McCain before it began.  Too much Bush baggage for him to ever have even had a chance.  What little hope he had was trashed when he chose Palin as his running mate.

@OD

Yeah, I love it.  A while ago, they were projecting Obama to win New Jersey with only 2% of the precincts reporting.  And of those 2% reporting, McCain was winning by a lot.  WTF?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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