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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: United States President: 2008
Thread: United States President: 2008 [ This thread is 90 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 (14) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 ]
Baklava
Baklava


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posted August 31, 2007 09:45 PM

Quote:
History is written by the winners? How often did the jews win their battles?

1) David won a lot of battles
2) Nazism was defeated
3) Israel pretty much won some wars lately, against Lebanon and whatnot...

And we're talking just about wars here. They had countless victories in fields of economy, science, diplomacy...

So Jewish people actually won a lot.
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Celfious
Celfious


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posted September 01, 2007 02:07 PM

Ive been thinking of how possible it really is for this democracy to become a monarchy, as consis states. The logic is stunning.
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Consis
Consis


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Of Ruby
posted September 05, 2007 02:46 AM
Edited by Consis at 16:12, 06 Sep 2007.

Two Thumbs Up Thus Far

Half way through the book.

Edit: Guess Who's Publicly Endorsing Obama
**copied from a cnn website/edited by me**

Oprah may assume a visible role in his presidential bid. She is already slated to hold a star-studded fundraiser at her California estate this weekend. Oprah has repeatedly shown her name can sell nearly anything, but the media magnate has never endorsed a presidential candidate before.
What a surprise. Didn't see that coming.

"I think what Oprah can do is potentially bring out the congregants of the church of Oprah," Marty Kaplan, a communications professor at the University of Southern California. "She is a charismatic leader of a lay congregation. People buy books when she tells them to. They will watch her shows, and buy her magazines when she asks them to," Kaplan added. "So the question is, are enough of them willing to follow her lead not with a consumer good, but with a ballot cast?"
Church of Oprah? Lay congregation? If you're attempting to associate Oprah fans with religious followers then you might not be entirely wrong. I am inclined to agree somewhat.

Moreover, Kaplan says, Oprah's core audience is women, and her endorsement could help Obama compete with his chief presidential rival, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, for women's votes.
I fear that may be true and unavoidable.

"One of his campaign officials in California told me Oprah is everything," Kaplan added. "So they have high hopes for the endorsement." Obama and Oprah's close relationship may also increase the chance she will be willing to take a visible role in the campaign. "They met way back here in Chicago in the African-American social circuit back in, I believe, either the late 1990s or around 2000 when he was running for Congress," David Mendell, an Obama biographer tells. "Obama is very adept at selling himself to people of the elite," Mendell added. "And so, in the last year or so, he has sat down with her and they have struck up this relationship."

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted September 06, 2007 07:45 PM

Consis, it doesn't matter how popular Obama is as long as he's good. You know, there's a reason why Tancredo doesn't have more support than he does. It's because he sucks. People won't support someone who sucks unless there's a valid reason or propoganda (as in Bush's case). You may say that all of this Obama stuff is propoganda. But it doesn't mean that he's not good. It's not a crime to be popular.

But I'm hoping for a Paul/McCain vs. Gravel/Obama election in 2008. That way, no matter who wins, we get a good President. Too bad it'll probably be something like Romney/Giulliani vs. Clinton/Richardson. Alas, the average American voter isn't too bright.
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Consis
Consis


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Of Ruby
posted September 10, 2007 03:19 AM
Edited by Consis at 03:26, 10 Sep 2007.

Obama Tries Too Hard

I'm three quarters of the way through the book and I'm fairly convinced it isn't going to change much. After reading this book I now believe I understand what Barack Obama is doing. I've always recognized something that I found odd but unavoidable. There are some people in this country who actually consider themselves of a certain specific ethnicentricity. There is apparently some black american community that is often seen by many as its own party. The likes of which have been: James Brown, Al Sharpton, Dr. Martin Luther King jr, Louis Farrakhann, or Malcolm X. It is odd to me the way leaders are placed or place themselves at the head of this so-called congregation. My own puzzlement does not change the reality of it though.

I believe Obama is actively seeking to be the leader of this community. His book is one big job application form of why he thinks he ought to be their leader. I've never seen anyone try so hard. And he's good too. He knows exactly what he's talking about.....everything from a love for soul train to Malcom X to southern christian values.

The problem that I now see is the reason why many of this community are rejecting him. As has been the case, historically speaking, this specific community has more often than not chosen this person for themselves. Forget for a moment that he is trying so hard and consider the fact that he is not what he is attempting to portray himself as. Neither he nor any immediate relative was ever party to deep south segregation. None of his influencing family are descendants of slaves. He is not from Africa nor was he raised with african values even though his name is Kenyan. In fact he was raised by white people in Hawaii and spent a few years in grade school in Djakarta which is home to world's largest muslim population. He was never exposed to an inner city life as a child. In fact it is more likely that he was exposed to a muslim's values on women than any other. He does not come from that same system of african americans where the mother stays at home, breaks her back going to work, or takes her children to learn about Jesus. He doesn't call his mother momma. I don't buy into his musings with christianity, not for a second! The list goes on and on.....I see why they reject him.

It also reminds me of my affinity for Al Sharpton. People underestimate this man time and again. This is a man who has been dragged through the mud over and over and he still continues to get up and dust himself off. And when he's done he turns it around and shouts "Thankyou Jesus!". I love this man. I love what he represents. I love how unafraid he is to talk to every man and woman (of color or not of color). I believe this man is the real deal. If this community is going to have a leader then I believe it is him. This man don't care about how much money or education you have. He'll tell it like it is and how things ought to be. He is wholly imperfect in more ways than I keep track of but that never stops him. Americans love this man and so do I.
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Baklava
Baklava


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posted September 10, 2007 08:53 AM

You're telling us that Obama isn't fit to be a leader because he didn't suffer segregation? And because he was raised by white people?

And that he can't be christian cause he went to a school in Djakarta?

Wtf man
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Binabik
Binabik


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posted September 10, 2007 09:08 AM

I don't think that's what he is saying. At least that's not how I interpret it. I don't think he's saying Obama can't be a leader in general, but saying that he can't truely be a leader of the BLACK community when he hasn't experienced the same things as they have. He's an outsider who may have observed their plight, but that's not the same as experiencing it first hand.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted September 10, 2007 11:49 AM

Consis, maybe it's good that he can't be such a leader of the African American community. Nothing against Martin Luther King, Jr., but I'm tired of these African American "ethnic heroes". People should stop acting in an ethnic way. And if Obama becomes a leader of the African American community, it's very likely that he'll stop being appealing to many others. African Americans need to realize that they are Americans before they are African Americans, and end what is percieved as their ridiculous stereotypical subculture that is also perpetuated by "gangsta" wanna-be black teenagers. There's nothing good about it.

And Al Sharpton is an idiot.
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Consis
Consis


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Of Ruby
posted September 10, 2007 08:22 PM

That's It Exactly

I'm saying that Obama is trying to be something he's not. I'm saying that he doesn't realize his own greatness. The guy is awesome: he can motive thousands upon thousands of people to come forward and take an active role in helping to move the country forward for the common good. But he doesn't see himself that way. He's trying to be the next black super hero or something. If you read the novel he really lays it on to such an extent, so thick, that the reader might be lead to question if he isn't looking for his own identity. I like this guy a lot. He seems to be a man who wants to do good but he isn't being himself. He doesn't realize that you can be a greater help to the people of this country by being yourself rather than some scripted image of the ideal traits and qualities of the quintessential american black man. I don't understand why he thinks he has to be the ideal black american to be one of our greatest leaders. A leader is who ever they may be, not who we imagine them to be.

And what's up with not liking Al Sharpton? Dude!
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mvassilev
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posted September 11, 2007 12:25 AM

I actually agree with you here, Consis O_o. The reason that I don't like Al Sharpton is that I'm just not a big fan of ethnic heroes. I can't deny all of the good things that MLK did, but Al Sharpton isn't MLK.
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Consis
Consis


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posted September 11, 2007 02:28 AM
Edited by Consis at 04:28, 14 Sep 2007.

Self-Defeat Of A People

Why doesn't Obama simply run as a Hawaiin, which is exactly what he is? Why is that so wrong? Hawaiins are Americans too. Isn't Kuccinich a Hawaiin? We proved that with the blood of our ancestors. It's like he has this romantic view of what is required to be a black mainland american. He talks about ridiculous notions that he believes qualifies him to be the image of the icon:

~ Malcom X youth epiphany

~ Social significance of basketball

~ Pilgrimage to africa

~ Behind-closed-doors confessions with black people testifying/justifying why they can't forgive the white man

~ A belief that the white man invaded africa

~ Supporting churches and schools that actually teach african histories/traditions that overlap all curriculums

~ Openly critical of other black people who somehow are disgracing themselves by wearing colored contact lenses or using white diction.

~ Organizing and funding black only foundations and making it clear to not accept support from white sources

This is only some of the stuff I've read so far. It makes me sick that such things like this exist. What if a white person tried do this stuff? What a joke that would be. Is there such a thing as a white mecca or pilgrimage? Is there some public list of things to follow to be the most white you can be? LoL, NOPE!

Ha! I'm from Texas. I was raised there and now I live in Oregon. I can run for public office here the same as anyone. But how could I not run as a Texan who came to Oregon? And what if I came here to help white people? Over and over, again and again, the book describes black people saying how they dont trust white people and that's why they form these all black groups. One conversation after another of instances where the running philosophy among black families is self-defeating. I'm not kidding when I say that the book mentions how many black parents actually call their own children snows! And not the friendly affectionate 'wassup nigga' used among rappers and home boys! That right there says more than anything else. I can't begin to imagine what would bring a parent to do such a thing. It's awful, I'm almost speechless.

Here's a quote from the book for everyone. It's a good example of what I've been talking about.

"Here the world was black, and so you were just you; you could discover all those things that were unique to your life without living a lie or committing betrayal."

He was in Nairobi, Kenya at the time.

After reading Obama's book I'm going to withdraw my earlier prediction for his voter turnout for the democratic nomination and lower it to no more than 15% or below. I am convinced he has established his reputation in large part for his constituents as a senator, which is only a small portion of representation for the average american voter. My new prediction is no more than 15% of the democratic nominee vote.
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violent_flower
violent_flower


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posted September 18, 2007 07:00 PM
Edited by violent_flower at 22:08, 18 Sep 2007.

Quote:
Bik states :I don't think that's what he is saying. At least that's not how I interpret it. I don't think he's saying Obama can't be a leader in general, but saying that he can't truely be a leader of the BLACK community when he hasn't experienced the same things as they have. He's an outsider who may have observed their plight, but that's not the same as experiencing it first hand.[quote/]


VF states:He is not suppose to be a leader for the black community, he is suppose to be a leader for everyone and evolve peoples ideology of several subjects in regards to our country, to push us forward into some positive change. This is not a black or white issue. If a presidential candidate has not been poor or rich, Hispanic or a handicap, it does not mean that they cannot represent those groups efficiently and promote change.

Quote:
Consis: The guy is awesome: he can motive thousands upon thousands of people to come forward and take an active role in helping to move the country forward for the common good.  But he doesn't see himself that way. [quote/]

VF states: HE DAMN WELL KNOWS THAT HE IS GREAT JUST LISTEN TO HIM SPEAK. Just because he fails to perch on the podium and shout out to everyone, “Hey brothers and sisters of the Afro community I’m great, look here it says on my shirt.” It does mean that he is not confident of who he his.

“ Oh, and I run for peace and love for all races!” Run forest run!”



Quote:
Consis states:He  doesn't realize that you can be a greater help to the people of this country by being yourself rather than some scripted image of the ideal traits and qualities of the quintessential American black man. [quote/]

VF states: What freaking politician does not layer some icing on before opening their big mouth, it is the name of the game. Obama runs the same game and it just comes down to who you think is capable of making things work once they are in.


This baby had the right idea…





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Consis
Consis


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posted September 18, 2007 07:35 PM
Edited by Consis at 19:37, 18 Sep 2007.

Ugh...My Final bad Vibes For Mr. Obama

As I see it, that's what he did to become senator: ran for it based on being a leader of the black community. As if to say, "Hey look I'm the best black guy! I'm gonna do the most for black people!" How can any person run for president by only representing a single community? He is NOT representing other minorities. He is NOT representing women. I believe he is attempting to represent Africans in America. That is exactly why we need him to have more broad experience such as mayor or governor. At this point the guy is only representing his constituency. It's all so odd....especially if you look at Hawaii and see it is truly one of our most ethnically diverse American communities. I don't understand why he would choose to be so narrow in his political focus. That is not how he should have been raised. The complete polar opposite of Chicago, which even his book describes as diametrically ethnic.

I'm just about tired of saying bad things about Obama. My next post will be nothing but how awesome he is withOUT his skin color involved. No matter how many things I find wrong with him, he is still one of the good guys.
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violent_flower
violent_flower


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posted September 18, 2007 08:00 PM
Edited by violent_flower at 22:08, 18 Sep 2007.

By the looks of things Consis I would say that you are misleading those that know nothing about Obama, and for this reason you are toxic to those that will go into the booth and just check whoever based upon what some guy said on HC.  Those people should not be voting to begin with but to make an outright statement such as, Obama is doing nothing for women, is absurd.  


Quote:
Barack Obama
on WOMEN’S RIGHTS
Barack Obama is dedicated to
improving the lives of women.
Pay Equity
Despite decades of progress, women still make only 77 cents for every dollar men make. Barack
Obama believes the government needs to better enforce the Equal Pay Act, fight job discrimination,
and improve child care options and family medical leave to give women equal footing in the workplace.
Small Business
Women are majority owners of more than 28 percent of U.S. businesses, but head less than 4 percent
of venture-capital-backed firms. Obama encourages investing in women-owned businesses, providing
more support to women business owners, and reducing discrimination in lending.
Reproductive Choice
Obama supports a woman’s right to choose. He has been a consistent champion of reproductive
choice and will make preserving women’s rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as president. Obama
also supports expanded access to contraception, health information and preventive services to reduce
unintended pregnancies.
Preventing Violence Against Women
Obama introduced legislation to combat domestic violence by providing $25 million a year for partnerships
between domestic violence prevention organizations and fatherhood or marriage programs.
Obama also cosponsored and helped reauthorize the Violence Against Women Act.
Education
Obama will fight to protect Title IX and make sure women have equal educational opportunities from
pre-kindergarten through college.
Fixing the Nation’s Health Care System
Obama is committed to ensuring that all Americans, including the 19 million women who don’t have
insurance today, have health care coverage by the end of his first term in office. Obama is an original
co-sponsor of Johanna’s Law, which will educate women and increase awareness of ovarian cancer, and
has supported efforts to combat breast cancer. He also introduced the Microbicide Development Act,
which will accelerate the development of products that empower women in the battle against HIV. [quote/]

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Baklava
Baklava


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posted September 18, 2007 08:49 PM

Quote:
Bak states : [q]I don't think that's what he...

No, um, that's what Bik stated. I'm Bak, and Binabik is Bik... To avoid further confusion
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"Let me tell you what the blues
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money,
you got the blues."
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violent_flower
violent_flower


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posted September 18, 2007 10:00 PM

sorry I will fix it

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roy-algriffin
roy-algriffin


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posted September 18, 2007 11:08 PM

Giving 19 million women insurance? thats no small feat id think
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Consis
Consis


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Of Ruby
posted September 19, 2007 12:54 AM

Violent_Flower,

What about the rights of women serving in the military or being eligible for the draft? What about how often women get fired from their jobs for being pregnant or having a baby? Shall I go on? You are a woman aren't you Violent_Flower? This does concern you does it not?
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violent_flower
violent_flower


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posted September 19, 2007 03:12 AM

Sure this concerns me and where did you read that he was oppose to any of those things?

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Consis
Consis


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Of Ruby
posted September 19, 2007 03:30 PM

Which Champion?

Do you think Obama can do more for women's rights than Hillary?
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