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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Necropolis power deficiency !
Thread: Necropolis power deficiency ! This thread is 23 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 ... 19 20 21 22 23 · «PREV / NEXT»
Vicheron
Vicheron


Known Hero
posted May 16, 2006 08:50 PM
Edited by Vicheron at 20:51, 16 May 2006.

Oops, it is called the Unholy Temple. Having another hero ferry neutral creatures wouldn't be that bad. Most neutrals don't join you even if you have diplomacy and a huge army. Plus you'll never take zombies and maybe ghosts with you so you'll have one or two slots free.

Haven will be a strong shooter town as well because of training. A lot of those peasants are going to be turned into archers and marksman, and if there's a lot of gold availible, footmen can be turned into clerics.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted May 16, 2006 09:38 PM

I just found the title Holy Temple somewhat ... inappropriate.

About the Training skill, that is deffinitely a genuine power booster, even though it'll be tough on the ressources. That would also explain the generally very week nature of the level 1 through 3 units of the Haven. Especially the transformation Peasant > Archer seems to be one you can make good use of in semi-early game.

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NavonDuSandau
NavonDuSandau


Adventuring Hero
of Black Sheep Tavern
posted May 17, 2006 03:56 PM

Necropolis has been one of my favourite factions to play and I agree that there's problem. It does remind a lot Necropolis in HoMM 3.

There are again quite useless units like zombies and dragon units are simply something horrible compared to other high level units.

I think in right hands Necropolis can compete with others but I find the most problem being the speed of Necropolis units. Factions with lot of ranged units will work like firing squad against Necropolis and when they get Liches tied up Necropolis will suffer quite a lot casualties (casualties when talking about undead troops?) but necromancy ability will surely help with speedy weekly growth.

I think that Necropolis in overall just requires different style of play than example Academy. And it's always been like that.
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JustAFan
JustAFan

Tavern Dweller
posted May 17, 2006 07:20 PM

So we come to a conclusion how things should be:
Heroes 3 with Heroes 5 graphics
Massive changes allways have some negative effects, but I`m sure those guys watch what we are posting and they ask numerous testers, so when the patch with the maps and etc is on, they will fix it
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Vicheron
Vicheron


Known Hero
posted May 17, 2006 07:41 PM

They really should add an necromancer skill that lets leadership increase the initiative of undead creatures. Necropolis is the slowest town with no way of increasing their initiative other than through artifacts. Academy is second slowest but they have the artificer ability so they can make mini-artifacts that increase the speed and initiative of their creatures, plus they have the artifact merchant, which makes it easier for them to get initiative increasing artifacts for their heroes.

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NavonDuSandau
NavonDuSandau


Adventuring Hero
of Black Sheep Tavern
posted May 17, 2006 08:23 PM
Edited by NavonDuSandau at 20:25, 17 May 2006.

Quote:
They really should add an necromancer skill that lets leadership increase the initiative of undead creatures.

In my opinion that sounds little bit too artificial to me.

I think what they could simply do is at least raise the initiative/speed of Spectres and/or Wraiths. After all you would think that such creatures are fast because of incorporeal ability and such.

But as mentioned earlier it's possible that with right playing style even that might be not needed.

We'll see.
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Betruger
Betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted May 19, 2006 04:24 AM

Precisely, skeleton archers rock so much!
And necro gathers them very quickly too, because now the number of raised skellies depends not only on number of creatures defeated, but also on their hp. Therefore I got about 70 skellies for killing 80 squires (necromancy at expert + necromancy amplifier)
From my experience in 3 weeks one can easily accumulate over 500 skellies and in the fourth week double that number.
Necro seems pretty strong

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Vicheron
Vicheron


Known Hero
posted May 19, 2006 05:26 AM

1,000 skeleton archers is not that powerful. You need battle frenzy and archery to make them effective.

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Betruger
Betruger


Known Hero
empowered mind
posted May 19, 2006 11:03 AM

Yup, but i always pick attack skill -> battle frenzy while playing necro. It almost doubles the dmg done by skeletons.
And also, there is a minor artifact that increases min & max dmg of all units by 1 (the artie costs 3000 in artefact merchant, so it's rather easily obtainable).

So, 1k skeletons with all that do 3-4 dmg + 20% from archery, that's
3600 - 4800 dmg (not including attack/defecne skill difference)
I think that's quite a lot of damage.

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Arangar
Arangar


Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
posted May 19, 2006 11:50 AM

Necro will be able to double-build no matter what type of secondary town he captures.. because of the creature transformer. Mapmakers will have to tailor maps to prevent necro from being overpowered. Is that what you call an underpowered faction?
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north

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silentbobus
silentbobus


Adventuring Hero
posted May 19, 2006 04:07 PM

I was wondering, but maybe they expect you to abuse the Raise Dead spell to balance out the Necro faction. Since it's only a level 2 spell, and as useful as ressurection for the undead, perhapes that is meant to turn the tide. That or a huge number of skeleton archers

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NavonDuSandau
NavonDuSandau


Adventuring Hero
of Black Sheep Tavern
posted May 19, 2006 04:10 PM
Edited by NavonDuSandau at 16:10, 19 May 2006.

Quote:
Generally, i think you need a very well built and high level hero to really dominate with undead. Otherwise, you just have bunch of slow moving graveyard rejects
Very much my sentiments also.

You have to start building your army and your hero heavily right from the start with Necropolis. Even though you can take quite a lot casualties compared to others and still revive them, it's all about numbers with Necropolis. I think the killer in overall is that the 7th level creatures are so weak and zombies are next to useless.

Nice message as for first message there from you Antfood.
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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted May 20, 2006 12:24 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Generally, i think you need a very well built and high level hero to really dominate with undead. Otherwise, you just have bunch of slow moving graveyard rejects
Very much my sentiments also.

You have to start building your army and your hero heavily right from the start with Necropolis. Even though you can take quite a lot casualties compared to others and still revive them, it's all about numbers with Necropolis. I think the killer in overall is that the 7th level creatures are so weak and zombies are next to useless.

Nice message as for first message there from you Antfood.


Bone and Spectral dragons can get a growth rate of 3 per week with the Dragon Tombstone (or whatever it's called ) so it can make up for it's weakness with numbers... although I don't know how effective this is going to be, haven't played with Necropolis yet.
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Kai
Kai


Hired Hero
H5 Kaspar avatar needed.
posted May 22, 2006 01:51 AM

Why even play Duel with a Necro hero? The advantage of starting with the dead is Necromancy and Raise Dead (a.k.a. the ability to amass an army faster and minimize losses over time) and of course by entering a Duel the hero forgoes that ability! Might I direct the customers to some other overpowered heroes (*cough*Ossir*cough*).

I'm guessing a strategy with the dead would be to amass a cheap army of level 1-5 or 1-6 creatures (exclude level 2 if desired, to save some money) and rush the opponent before they get their dragons or angels... or hopefully, before they get their cavaliers or rakshasa...

Depends on the map though.
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Thanatos
Thanatos


Known Hero
posted May 22, 2006 12:09 PM

Quote:
They really should add an necromancer skill that lets leadership increase the initiative of undead creatures. Necropolis is the slowest town with no way of increasing their initiative other than through artifacts. Academy is second slowest but they have the artificer ability so they can make mini-artifacts that increase the speed and initiative of their creatures, plus they have the artifact merchant, which makes it easier for them to get initiative increasing artifacts for their heroes.


Just learn Light magic, Master of Wrath and Haste? Or am I overlooking something very obvious here?

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kreszantas
kreszantas


Adventuring Hero
TOH Coordinator
posted May 22, 2006 06:15 PM

Speed does not always necessarly win... I have played many games where patience and tactics win the day, a legion of skels is not that much, when I have gone into fights at nonth 1 week 4 with 1500+ skels and horde of drags on a moderate wealthly map.  Proper use of all the benefits, and not working against yourself (master the short comings and use them to your advantage)  Bait and Switch type of tactics, also teleport spell works great too

Also necros with Death March skill  +4 speed when attacking castles is HUGE!!  Power of Speed (haste for free if expert mass haste for free) and Banshee howl (-6 morale) Boneward if you fighting a dungeon (-20% destruction magic damage) Banish for gated creatures, playing against Inferno.

Just to mention a few items but why give ya all the answers
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Revnger
Revnger

Tavern Dweller
posted May 24, 2006 12:29 PM

Necropolis is easily the most powerful faction in the game. To think anything else is pure folly.

Necropolis gets its permanent resurrection as a lvl 2 spell, with no need for specialization, while the rest of the factions get it as a level 5 spell with a need for magic specialization to even be able to cast it. HUGE advantage to necropolis.

Necropolis is the only town that can in essence turn any second town conquered into another Necropolis by converting the creatures. they can do the same with any neutral army that joins them OR the creaures from a creature building. If 45 squires join me and I am playing Sylvan I'm like, click, destroy, no use. BIG advantage to Necropolis.

Necroplis has, on a Power x Production basis, the best lvl 4, 5 AND 6 creatures in the game, as in this game the lvl 7 creatures buildings and creature costs are OVERWHELMING, and this game has been labaled by some the "game of lvl 4 - 6 creatures" again, HUGE advantage to necropolis.

Necropolis, though their lvl 7 creature is indeed pretty lame, the rest are very comparable to the other factions, if not superior AND they get to amass a FREEE horde of skellies that SHOOT. This lvl 1 unit is easily the equal to any other stack of creatures in anyone army that they go up against. a GIGANTIC advantage to necropolis.

Anyone saying necropolis is underpowered I would love to see detaisl of why you beleive such, "it sucks" is not details, legitimate FACTS please.
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miru
miru


Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
posted May 25, 2006 08:51 PM

To sumarize: Necropolis have weak units, but can be overly-powerful for a good tactician. Their strength is not, in basic power, but abilities and spells.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.

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Juzorius
Juzorius

Tavern Dweller
posted May 25, 2006 11:44 PM

Its sad that Spectral Dragons are so weak. I find dark magic pretty powerful, Curse of the Netherworld, puppetmaster, blindness and confusion are usefull spells. I've got my ass kicked by Academy meteor showers and fire balls too often though.
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Shhejtan
Shhejtan


Hired Hero
posted May 26, 2006 06:18 PM

When playing necro, you don't need anything but vampire lords, archliches, ghosts (unupgraded) and skeleton archers, and the frenzy skill. Actually with the frenzy skill and good necromancy + amplifiers you don't need anything but the ghosts and skellies, and maby a first aid tent to resurect fallen ghosts. Skelleton archers were a terrible mistake from the design standpoint, they make for some terrifying rushes, because you not only steal their expirience (by killing their creeps) but you get more archers while you're at it.

There seems to be about 20 or so different artifacts in the game alltogether and you'll easily find the one that gives +1max+1min damage to all your creatures. That + frenzy + necromancy = unstoppable IMH expirience.
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