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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Political Correctness
Thread: Political Correctness This thread is 18 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 · «PREV / NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted February 11, 2019 10:57 PM
Edited by artu at 22:59, 11 Feb 2019.

evildustructor said:
i'm curious on how you and the others in the thread really reason. feels like people just write "hahahahaha insert edgy stuff here" and then someone says "hey wtf lol stop doing that" and you guys are all like "haha triggered sjw dont tell me what to do you cant educate me wtf censorship i cant do what i want" so feels like a rly toxic childish environment as of now, was really curious on how you guys think.

Lol, that was a funny first impression, I sometimes try to imagine myself as a newcomer and my early impressions wouldn’t be extremely different either, especially in these last few years. HC has deeper layers though, once you get there, you can check out anytime you like but you can never leave.
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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 11, 2019 11:05 PM

artu said:
HC has deeper layers though


Yeah, we're like an onion.

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted February 12, 2019 08:22 AM

Quote:
but you can never leave.


yes, you can. I've already done it 5 times

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Geny
Geny


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted February 12, 2019 09:12 AM

So what you're saying is that you've checked out 5 times, but you never left?
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted February 12, 2019 10:21 AM

Geny said:
So what you're saying is that you've checked out 5 times, but you never left?


I have never left / checked out actually. I was trying to make a joke similar to the one that says "smoking is the easiest thing to do. I've done it 20 times already"

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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted February 12, 2019 10:47 AM
Edited by blob2 at 11:38, 12 Feb 2019.

evildustructor said:
i really don't get your point at all here tbh, that you're a nice guy but you think feeling uncomfortable around non white people is justified as long as you keep it to yourself? maybe not you in particular but the person with the behaviour you tried to justify


And were did I say I justify it? I only said people might be prone to such reactions, we are bombarded with various conflicting information afterall so we are naturally taking a defensive stance. Do you approach any stranger with positive attitude? You are over interpreting my words here.

Quote:
feels like people just write "hahahahaha insert edgy stuff here" and then someonme says "hey wtf lol stop doing that" and you guys are all like "haha triggered sjw dont tell me what to do you cant educate me wtf censorship i cant do what i want" so feels like a rly toxic childish environment as of now, was really curious on how you guys think


Well you fight fire with fire. It's not that I don't agree with some of their values. I don't agree with the aggressive way SJW are pushing their views. You can't have a normal discussion, as we are polar opposites.

Quote:
discussions isnt really about enemies or certain political views imo, still expressing opinions/statements with political meaning behind them still exhibits a political view right?


So it's not about political views but exhibits political views? I don't get it...

Quote:
but really though is this a problem? have you not noticed in all online games when 90% of "gamers" behave completely different when they play with a woman, or how stuff like 4chan twitch chat etc produce edgy snow that really snows snow up? This thread is 50% toxic gamers lol sorry but it's true, the journalism maybe is needed after all even if it might be on a high level would probably be possible to create an interesting article just by reading this single thread really.


Yes it is because there are journalist that don't seem to have any other different subjects at the moment. Half good if there is real meaning behind it. But it's mostly there because it's either the current trend (everyone is writing about it so can I) or it's imposed. And triggering those same toxic people with blunt attacks won't solve the problem. If they want a meaningful discussions they should change their own approach, because they are right only on some issues, rest is overexaggeration.

Quote:
Why do you think the articles are created to begin with? How do you think it is playing multiplayer games when people e.g. are being complete idiots like flirting or harassing you just because you sound like a woman?


Yeah, cause those people are idiots?

Quote:
Isn't it basically racism that people get upset by including non-white people representated in games, though? It's not as there's not enough representation of white male heroes, right? can you name 10 good black fantasy heroes? how does it hurt the gaming community to make more people feel included, do you feel excluded when all protagonists aren't duke ivan the knight, kilgor the barbarian or whatever? by including a woman protagonist or something for a change, is that really keeping the "white straight males" to a "minimum" or is it just adding diversity?


So we cannot be upset, that's what you're saying? Cus we're whites, the "privileged" bunch? Only minorities can voice their concern now?
There are also many woman characters in games. You don't want the character, you don't play it. I can't play Horizon Zero Dawn as a male? Should I shout that there is no diversity? No, because I enjoy the character for what it is, a cool one btw. Since the 90s you can fully customize a character race/color and gender and you can even play as a cat or lizard person in an RPG game. But when a game adds a historically inaccurate character to a war game just because "diversity", it's ought to raise voices. Besides if reason won't reach the devs, players wallets will, Battlefield V didn't exactly get the expected sales...

Quote:
How is it less "fun" to play a game with a protagonist that you can't relate to physically, aren't you basically arguing against yourself here then? If you think it is less fun to play characters that aren't "white straight males", then how would you think a person coming from a minority group feels when looking at all 10000000 generic fantasy heroes?


Well, I at least don't think that it's less fun...

Quote:
it might not just be to buttkiss "social justice organisations" (in some cases it totally is tho, you might be right there as their main reasoning behind would probably like to increase their sales)


Glad you see the issue here.

Quote:
this mentality is dangerous imo, sorry but normal people do racism that's something that creates racism to begin with, to justify it as basically non-existent or that solely crazy people are racist. racism exists, is real and thats why people talk about it heres an extreme example, how was hitler elected to begin with? was all of 1930s germany completely insane, or was there other contributing factors behind it?


Knives are also dangerous, yet only some people use them to harm others with them. The reality we are living in puts us in a situation where we need to balance things. We should fight with intolerance, but we cannot be accepting of everything, because sooner or later the ones we are stretching the hand out to will walk on our heads, and I'm not talking about minorities alone. Many people are rotten inside and will try to take advantage. In general it is what I'm trying to relay here with criticizing SJW's and other overzealous activists.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 12, 2019 11:49 AM

Dudes, people don't sit in their white Aryan countries then talk bad about n***as over seas. Normal people don't care. But people will care when a majority of Africans, unable to sustain their own country - for various reasons, some will say is 100% because white man colonization, I think this is bollocks - will decide half of them will get a better life in EU/USA, due to extreme generous welfare system and will start moving by millions. It happens they are black, but if Chechens - whites - did same by millions, you would have same problem, a cultural shift into a direction you wouldn't like. If many of us think those countries stagnate because of white ancestors, that's ok, create a system to help them at home: borrow money at a lower rate, build infrastructures, try to educate them (I doubt it will be positively perceived), in short create a long term improvement.

But just opening your borders and let everyone enter, thats madness because this will destroy your own country, people bring their best but also their worst. Cultures are NOT equal, take that out of your liberal mind, there is no such thing. On the others side, if you take the best only, that will penalize their countries as well, so look far away and act smart. Our leaders huge errors create the racism.


evildustructor said:
Isn't it basically racism that people get upset by including non-white people representated in games, though?


No, it is not. Because the process of choosing minorities is not natural, but forced by an ideology, and this is what people are pissed off about. I have zero problems if producers audition 100 guys then take 2 blacks/asians/etc because the blacks/asians were the best, but I hate to know they took a black because there HAS to be a black so every dumb racist Trump voter gets it that our society is diverse and must stay that way. Same goes for gender equality, I am shocked to see around me people getting hysteric when a woman is refused for a job, their first suspicion goes toward misogyny and patriarchy and they are very vocal about. People get upset because they feel something fishy about, which is the unfairness of the positive discrimination. Which is nothing but reversed racism.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 12, 2019 12:39 PM

It's simply a necessary stange in the process of reaching equality. It's like a pendulum and that pendulum swings, and will necessarily swing too far, until it starts swinging back.

The reason for this is that bias, sexism and racism are so deeply ingrained. It's basically untinkable that a math prof would tell a student that women were not fit to graduate in mathematics - which is what happened to my wife (she graduated with someone else, since she had no chance with him).

I don't even want to think about how racism is still rampant in (parts of) the US, and sexism, as much as it may seem that we go forward is also still a problem everywhere (religion playing its part, but not just the islamic one).

Inequality, racism, sexism are STILL a problem all over the world - but of course those are not the sole (and in some cases not even the main or any) offenders when it comes to determining what's still wrong in the world.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 12, 2019 12:54 PM

And the hardest people to understand this are WHITE MALES because they aren't the ones to experience this. It was less than 50 years ago that it was still commonplace for people to openly demean minorities or women because of so and so or such and such stereotype. It has rightfully become taboo to do openly or in public (because it is dehumanizing and it is bull****), but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen more subtlety.

No, that doesn't mean white people have perfect lives. It doesn't mean that economic class or bad upbringing or any number of other things don't negatively effect white people. But, on the matter of RACE, white people enjoy the status of being mainstream and are the least harmfully affected by prejudice.

It is the historically marginalized/disenfranchised/colonized/dehumanized ethnic groups that bear the brunt of prejudice.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 12, 2019 01:00 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 13:31, 12 Feb 2019.

@JJ

Absolute equality can't be reached because it doesn't exist. Some jobs suit better to men, others to women. Some to whites, some to blacks. If you consider everyone can do everything, you will have a drop in quality then capitalism will switch back to its hidden rules, profit first, snow equality.  

On the other side, there should be a perfect equality in opportunities. Any gender and any race should be encouraged and allowed then fairly judged to challenge any activity. But also accept the results and move on.

Blizzardboy said:
But, on the matter of RACE, white people enjoy the status of being mainstream and are the least harmfully affected by prejudice.


I would like to have some examples of white privilege please.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 12, 2019 01:38 PM

Salamandre said:
@JJ
Absolute equality can't be reached because it doesn't exist. Some jobs suit better to men, others to women. Some to whites, some to blacks.
That isn't for you to say, as simple as that, not in that generality. The rest of your post, that is something to consider when there ARE equal opportunities, but that's not the case, and the fact that you put the (few) cases under the microscope where the pendulum is indeed swinging into the other direction shows to me, that you simply don't take the issue seriously.

From a social point of view WE (males and whites) ARE THE EVIL EMPIRE. That's the thing you have to understand. Oh, sure, most of us are reasonable enough to see that it's high time to give up some privileges (and we've lost a couple of them already) - but that hasn't been something we GAVE, like a lord gives something to a beggar. It's something the women and the colored people had and have to FIGHT for, with dire consequences for some of them, and the fight simply isn't over, yet. We, as sexes, have to redefine our roles and that comes with a shake-up of everything that once seemed clear and obvious.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 12, 2019 02:10 PM

Yeah because you start from the premise that both women and colored people were oppressed by the past. Which is far from being so crystal clear as you claim.

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted February 12, 2019 02:13 PM
Edited by AlHazin at 14:14, 12 Feb 2019.

@Sal: Not happy to be an expert in African geography you also seem to have trouble measuring distances.

Being there doesn't mean you have a better perspective than me on the events. It's not about seeing things with your eyes, it's about analysing where crisis come from. And you have a big problem with analysing anything that can be. Both of you are not protesting, but have big mouths when it comes to "understanding" and "supporting". You should learn to be consistent, you said yourself that the advantages of the immigrants living on welfare while the poor Whites worked for them was starting to piss off everyone. And you're here saying it has nothing to do with immigration? What kind of logic is that? Opposing me just to oppose me, when you're reading of history and politics is a 5 years old child's one. So yes, I can teach you what is happening under your window because I do understand it better than you do.

Since you're tough with distances you should measure the one that separates you from Zimbabwe and all the African cultures you spit on every occasion you have to. This is utterly pathetic.

Let me laugh.

@Galaad: Ain't Sal the one who is saying the White are working for the immigrants in France or is it me? Do you guys have **** in the eyes?

IMMIGRATION IS A CONCERN FOR THE YELLOW VESTS. THERE IS A SOCIAL BREAK BETWEEN THEM AND THOSE WHO LIVE IN THE CITIES (YOU) AND THE IMMIGRANTS (SAL). THE BEST PROOF? BOTH OF YOU --->AIN'T<--- PROTESTING. YOU ARE A LIVING PROOF OF WHAT THE MEDIA SAY AND WHAT I AM SAYING.

Does it make its way into your brains now? You were the one mentionining social justice, this is part of the effing social justice they are asking for.

If you want to remain on simple things, it's your problem.

Galaad said:
Sal said:
yeah, from 2 thousand miles, teach us what is going under my window


Yeah, exactly.


Galaad said:
I was not being condescending


Tss tss tss tss...
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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted February 12, 2019 02:15 PM

I think a black voice might be helpful here...and there are a lot of them now that react the same way. Just look around past the BS-MSM.

link

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 12, 2019 02:18 PM

@Hazin Cheick

Well I don't blame you for not following fiscal reforms in France and their effect on middle classes. You are so full of your white men hate that you can't understand that, once in a while, you and yours alike aren't the center of discussion. Chill.
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted February 12, 2019 02:44 PM
Edited by blob2 at 16:01, 12 Feb 2019.

JollyJoker said:
From a social point of view WE (males and whites) ARE THE EVIL EMPIRE. That's the thing you have to understand. Oh, sure, most of us are reasonable enough to see that it's high time to give up some privileges (and we've lost a couple of them already) - but that hasn't been something we GAVE, like a lord gives something to a beggar. It's something the women and the colored people had and have to FIGHT for, with dire consequences for some of them, and the fight simply isn't over, yet. We, as sexes, have to redefine our roles and that comes with a shake-up of everything that once seemed clear and obvious.


Fighting the good fight is always reasonable. I do understand that you need to have a symbol of oppression because it rationalizes the fight. But as always it is a matter of personal or "someone elses" experiences with a big grain of propaganda (yeah go ahead an point me for doing the same, I don't mind). I talk with my female friends or family and I don't hear any examples of oppression from them. They work in the same jobs as men and are getting the same salary. And I know it's true cause I would instantly know if something was amiss. When a deviant is bothering them he either gets a smack in the face or is reported to the police. Moreover through my friends examples I actually heard more signs of men being oppressed then women: friend didn't get childcare after divorce because a "mother" is the better choice for a child. Another friend wasn't accepted by the mother of his fiance cus she's from a family of miners and you gotta do a man's job to support a family! Etc. On a professional note I talk with many people of color in my job (Hindu or Asian mostly), regularly face to face and not once any of us has shown any signs of racial-based animosities, even after drinking a few beers together after working hours.

There are racists, there are fat Hollywood pigs who molest women, there are university professors who make allusions to women and give them passing marks based on their appearance or clothing while insta-failing men. And people who don't show this kind of behavior are always caught in between. My views are one thing. How I interact with others is a different matter. I'm sorry that my fellow white men are oppressing other people, I cannot answer for the pigs they are. This is something wrong and must be dealt with.

But when I see a triggered SJW mob online shaming a shop owner on false claims because someone put a f*cking Pepe the Frog meme on the wall of his shop which ultimately leads to taking his distributor license from him without anything as an investigation on the matter, that is when I'm fed up with this movement. And this is what you're "oppressive white alpha male" propaganda has led to.

@markkur
What a reasonable man, thank you for the link to his channel (except only he's a Trump supporter, but no one's perfect ).

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 12, 2019 05:32 PM

Salamandre said:
Yeah because you start from the premise that both women and colored people were oppressed by the past. Which is far from being so crystal clear as you claim.
You don't think women and colored people haven't been oppressed in the past?

Don't feel offended when I say you can't as stupid as that sounds, so before I come to any conclusions - maybe you want to explain that statement? To be fair, you day, it's far from being so crystal clear - I fail to see what isn't, so maybe you tell me.

Quote:

But when I see a triggered SJW mob online shaming a shop owner on false claims because someone put a f*cking Pepe the Frog meme on the wall of his shop which ultimately leads to taking his distributor license from him without anything as an investigation on the matter, that is when I'm fed up with this movement. And this is what you're "oppressive white alpha male" propaganda has led to.
Well, it's as I said, the pendulum may swing to the other side - STILL: you live in Poland. Poland is still a very catholic country, and Catholicism is mysogynic. You know, it's all Eve's fault, after all. There are no female priests, it's a male clergy, and the only female of note is the holy virgin. These things are deeply ingrained, although communism has been helpful in that regard.
Not with racism, though. What have been Turks in West Germany have been the Vietnamese in the GDR.
It takes time for things to really change, but there is one thing you (and Sal and others) don't understand:

You cannot stop the process when YOU (men, white) have had enough. We can't tell the women and the colored people, hey, it's ok now, we think you have everything you wanted and more. As I said, this isn't something we HAND them, it's something THEY TAKE.

@markkur
What a reasonable man, thank you for the link to his channel (except only he's a Trump supporter, but no one's perfect ).

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted February 12, 2019 06:24 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 19:10, 12 Feb 2019.

JollyJoker said:
You don't think women and colored people haven't been oppressed in the past?


I didn't say that, I said is far from being crystal clear, which is the only situation when you can call white man evil, as you do. For exemple, I could personally be offended by this racist bullsnow you push there like "YOU (men, white) have had enough" because neither I or any of my ancestors oppressed any colored people and I am white. I know also about several hundred of millions of white people farther at east - Russians for example, what about them, aren't they white? Polish, Hungarians, Czechs, Bulgarians, and so on? Did they oppress "colored people"?

Did colored men also practice the slavery or not? How about slavery now, who is still practicing it, whites or "colored people"? What about the status of women, NOW, in most "colored" countries?

Does evil have a specific color of skin?

You should listen, maybe, to other sources than those hammering the same superficial tantrum, without going deeper.  This J. Peterson debate offers other perspectives (from 6th min about women oppression but all is worth listening to, in my opinion).
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted February 12, 2019 06:43 PM
Edited by blob2 at 20:44, 12 Feb 2019.

JollyJoker said:
You cannot stop the process when YOU (men, white) have had enough. We can't tell the women and the colored people, hey, it's ok now, we think you have everything you wanted and more. As I said, this isn't something we HAND them, it's something THEY TAKE.


Well yeah ok. See you at the slave market then Just joking. I hope.

No I can't stop the process and I don't want to stop it even. Assuming life is literally hell for women and minorities, then it should change. It must really be hell living in America, you can't get a job as a black men or a women even though you're trying so hard. White males have it so easy apparently, everything is assured by birth. But yeah, you're right I won't stop the transformations, it lies in the interest of too many high-level chaosmongers for them to simply let this go, and I'm just a simpleton from some backwater country what can I do. All right, enough with the generalisations, who does that even? Must only be me...

On a less sarcastic note I would like to at least keep these transformations as civil as possible SJW's. No shouting, no one way fault claiming, no lynching etc. Is it too much to ask?

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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 12, 2019 07:13 PM

markkur said:
I think a black voice might be helpful here...and there are a lot of them now that react the same way. Just look around past the BS-MSM.

link


everyone arguing about "white privilege", need to watch this. if you refuse to hear it from whites, hear it from a black man who's got his head on straight.

thanks, markkur.

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