|
| Thread: Wishes for future patches (1.6 and 2.2) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
siinn
Adventuring Hero
|
posted February 20, 2007 02:26 PM |
|
|
For NECRO:
"Incorporeality sounds nice for Spectrals!!"
how do we call them? "spectral dragons"!
what is spectral power? "incorporeality"!
YES that's it! spectral dragons must definitly be buffed in that way in order to become true fearsome level7 creatures!!!
I still think the new necromancy is really nice but DE should be balanced a bit:
- less DE from pillar bones
- more DE from heroes necromancy levels
- plus a DE bonus boost from "lord of the undeads" capacity
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 02:31 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Oh really, cleansing with spellpower 1 or a paladin in the army >> your uber SPELLPOWER 98658045+ Puppet master 
Can you at least once forget about Paladins or Cleansing. Those things are not happening in ALL games and the Paladin is only for Haven.
Quote:
Same to you my friend, try to play more to learn that most factions thrash necro without much effort now. 
Ok, I haven't played with the new Necro as I don't have 2.1
But there are many complaints about Necro on forums.ubi.com being the ultimate killing machine (okay, not stronger than before, but still STRONG) You don't really think those guys (some are expert btw) don't know what they are talking about, do you?
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 02:32 PM |
|
|
I think the original Spectral Dragons (planned for the Beta) had Incorporeal Ability. I think they cancelled that idea, because it was too random, making the planning of combat against and with such creatures very hard.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 02:38 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Oh really, cleansing with spellpower 1 or a paladin in the army >> your uber SPELLPOWER 98658045+ Puppet master
Guys you really forget about Frenzy, Decay, Fire Trap, and all other things for necro (even destructive + cold death).
Frenzy does more damage with more spellpower. That means, if you Frenzy a Paladin that is just about to act, no cleansers in between  they will kill marksmen probably in 1 hit
Doom you just have to accept things: Might heroes improve their creatures, not make their creatures "by themselves" better -- magic heroes focus on their magic, that's why you probably find dungeon, academy or necro creatures weak.
In truth, the creatures are not weak, but the hero doesn't give a sh*t about them.. but a creature is independent, not on hero 
|
|
VokialBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 02:41 PM |
|
Edited by VokialBG at 14:49, 20 Feb 2007.
|
Vampire is really not good but the Vampire Lord is for Lv. 4 Upg. Creatures, just the Necromancer, as hero is not good he need Attack and Knowledge, not the spellpower and defence.
Many people can say that the Imperial Griffin is better then the Vampire Lord - this is just player's tactics, isn't it?
I think, that Necropolis is the hardest race to play for many players, just you need more time for thinking, and strategy.
Necropolis is hidden force, I wan't to offend someone, but almost all members here:
do not play, or
can't play
with Necropolis, then it is to hard... yes you can play with Academy, just build some buildings, hire some creatures and build the magic guild, so game is finished, or with haven... it is easily to play with Academy.
Actually you can't play with necro with strategy for Academy or Haven, or... Inferno, if you want to play well with Necropolis, you need strategy for Necropolis.
They are weak in attack (the hero problem) but you need to use the defense skill.
Finally, I think that Sylvan, Inferno, Fotress, Dungeon, Academy they are all easily to defeat with Necropolis... And really can't get, why you guys think that necro is the weaker race here...
... it is Sylvan...
____________
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 02:44 PM |
|
|
Quote:
why you guys think that necro is the weaker race here
Well, I don't find Necro weak
|
|
siinn
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 03:08 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I think the original Spectral Dragons (planned for the Beta) had Incorporeal Ability. I think they cancelled that idea, because it was too random, making the planning of combat against and with such creatures very hard.
ah ah you're right mighty hero!
but remember what Yoda said to Luke: "the first impression often is the good one"
they should make the spectral dragons spectral again!
planning to kill/use them would be hard for sure but it would be fun and it would make those dragon what they should really be: the most feared creature from necro!
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 03:31 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Can you at least once forget about Paladins or Cleansing. Those things are not happening in ALL games and the Paladin is only for Haven.
Well, perhaps I overdo the haven example, yes. But, inferno -> tent, sylvan -> cleansing from sprites, academy -> cleansing from archmages.. that leaves dungeon as a perfect target for dark, but zomg, they depend on magic anyway, not creatures Mass suffering kills inferno, though.
Quote:
Ok, I haven't played with the new Necro as I don't have 2.1
But there are many complaints about Necro on forums.ubi.com being the ultimate killing machine (okay, not stronger than before, but still STRONG) You don't really think those guys (some are expert btw) don't know what they are talking about, do you?
Well, I'd rather believe my eyes that someone's opinion.. Perhaps they play with better ppl than them and that's why they think necro is godly.. or maybe they are a bunch of theorycrafters which saw that "omg you can rise liches now" and immediately started to write about "imba"? Who knows
Quote:
Doom you just have to accept things: Might heroes improve their creatures, not make their creatures "by themselves" better -- magic heroes focus on their magic, that's why you probably find dungeon, academy or necro creatures weak.
Hey, I don't find dungeon creatures weak.. they are just overestimated, but not weak! They are good.
Necro units are not bad either but the lack of level7 creature plus lack of good specials PLUS lack of morale and 2% chance to get luck PLUS zero attack boost PLUS no light magic.. ouff! Hurts!
Wizard's army is quite nice btw.
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 03:46 PM |
|
|
Well, against Inferno (in fact, Deleb) it's a wise choice to pick up Cold Death (with Circle of Winter ofc). Kills Ballista and Tent in the first hero move, probably before they act (bye bye Deleb's speciality)
Also, when Inferno (Deleb) sieges a Necro, you could use Cold Death to destroy both the Ballista and the Catapult, leaving Inferno only with some Succubi (25% damage thanks to the walls and Range penalty) and some Gated creatures (which are not many, and can be slaughtered easilty because they start with ATB 0 when they appear). Ofc, there is the hero, which cannot do much because it's Might oriented, not much with Magic.
Personally I think you don't know how to play with Necro properly.
I remember in other threads you were saying something about a Puppet Master with Demon Lord. How many skills do you think you can afford? You want War Machines, Attack, Luck, Dark Magic AND LOTS of abilities for these; you can't afford all of them in a MP game so I guess you just don't talk from experience, but rather about your 'ideal' games
... and even then, with a sh*tty spellpower, you will probably lose control over the unit before it gets to act. If you really tried your 'ideal' games, you'd found out that the reality differs
(oh yeah, the same thing with TowerLord and his 600 Marksmen -- he was playing a map with TWO towns very close to each other called Battle For Honor. But you immediately, without having experience (never tried it), started to say they are affordable on normal maps)
I like those that write from their own experience, like Elvin, Shauku, TheDeath or me (ofc, there are many more).
|
|
Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 03:50 PM |
|
|
|
Does Cold Death really destroy War Machines? If I remember right, Vorpal Sword doesn't kill them... Correct me if I am wrong.
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 03:50 PM |
|
|
|
Yes Cold Death destroys War Machines. Tried it in Duel (with Raven vs Deleb)
|
|
Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 03:54 PM |
|
|
|
That is great, at least one counter against the high buffed Warmachines
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 03:54 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Also, when Inferno (Deleb) sieges a Necro, you could use Cold Death to destroy both the Ballista and the Catapult, leaving Inferno only with some Succubi (25% damage thanks to the walls and Range penalty) and some Gated creatures (which are not many, and can be slaughtered easilty because they start with ATB 0 when they appear). Ofc, there is the hero, which cannot do much because it's Might oriented, not much with Magic.
Sounds fun eh? Too bad destructive isn't that common for necro. And icebolt can never appear in the guild, since necro is summoning&darkmagic based, not destructive.
Quote:
Personally I think you don't know how to play with Necro properly.
Personally I think you do too much theorycraft
Quote:
I remember in other threads you were saying something about a Puppet Master with Demon Lord. How many skills do you think you can afford? You want War Machines, Attack, Luck, Dark Magic AND LOTS of abilities for these; you can't afford all of them in a MP game so I guess you just don't talk from experience, but rather about your 'ideal' games
The old threads refer to Deleb, which, as you probably know, creeps 2x as fast as other factions, so you can reach monstrous levels very fast. The other Demon Lords are kinda inferior here, sadly  Ofc you won't pick every useful skill, but the majority.. yes.
Quote:
... and even then, with a sh*tty spellpower, you will probably lose control over the unit before it gets to act. If you really tried your 'ideal' games, you'd found out that the reality differs
If you ever tried powercreeping, you'd know that's the reality. Besides, puppetmaster matters for 1 turn anyway, if you are lucky enough to have the puppeted unit act before enemy cleanses the spell. THAT'S the reality.. what have you thought, that some uber-spellpower necros have fun with puppeted units for 38952983748 turns?
regards pal I love to argue about balance, as you've probably guessed.
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 04:06 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Sounds fun eh? Too bad destructive isn't that common for necro. And icebolt can never appear in the guild, since necro is summoning&darkmagic based, not destructive.
I wouldn't say 'never' to something that is 25%
The first three levels of the guild have a third spell that is light or destructive (for Necro) in case you didn't know, so to have a destructive is a 50% chance. To have Ice Bolt is a 25% chance. To have Circle of Winter is another 25% chance. Total (to have an Ice Spell) is a 43.75% (not really that 'low'). To have both of the spells it's a low chance, I know...
And this is only the Mage Guild, not to mention Shrines or other map locations
About the powercreeping: I don't know what maps you play, and how rich they are in creeps (Peninsula being one of the strangiest maps -- too many creeps for only 2 players!) because I played Neighbours recently and erased almost ALL creeps from the map (including most of those left by the AI - why the heck it leaves them out and does not attack them? stupid AI... - and was able to get only a 22 level) Ofc, Neighbours is not such a rich map, but I like it nevertheless. I don't like very rich maps like Peninsula
And one more thing: stop playing maps with more than two players when you place only two in the game (if you did) it kinda' breaks the balance of creeping (too many creeps for only two players). I'm sorry if you didn't do this, but some friends of mine do it and it kinda' makes me disappointed in some way
About Puppet Master:
I think it still lowers the initiative of the creature, so I think 1 turn is not always enough
|
|
Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 04:06 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Sounds fun eh? Too bad destructive isn't that common for necro. And icebolt can never appear in the guild, since necro is summoning&darkmagic based, not destructive.
There is a 25% for Ice Bolt and 25% for Circle of Winter. There is around 44% to get atleast one Ice spell, that is not so bad. Of course it is unreliable, all spell based startegies are.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 04:17 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I wouldn't say 'never' to something that is 25%
My bad. I meant it maynot appear in the guild.. not that it can't.
Quote:
About Puppet Master:
I think it still lowers the initiative of the creature, so I think 1 turn is not always enough
Yes it does, but I found it usually enough with 4-5 spellpower.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 04:19 PM |
|
|
Guys ... we seem to be drifting slightly off topic here.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 04:21 PM |
|
|
Oh, as usual 
By the way: what do you think about fortress balance? I honestly didn't try them much..
All that is said is that they can do a lot of things with the runes and easy access to light magic.. but it's theory. Any good dwarven player here?
|
|
TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 04:21 PM |
|
|
Ok, let's get back to the linear formula business then  And I'm serious
|
|
Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2007 04:31 PM |
|
|
Well I have a party to attend So meanwhile if Alchi answeres into a few of my conserns. First of all, I asked earlier..
"And why do the spells need to be effective against low levels, if the shooting does the job?"
We both noticed that Elder Druid has average stats for its level and is a very competent shooter. Why canno't casting be balanced that way, that when they reach epic levels like hundreds, it becomes automatically balanced because they become shooters then?
I am concerned that how will you make sure that we do not have Genie on our hands again? There are a few things that actually favour the Genie, that he is actually more balanced than Druid with your system. a) there was line of sight b) the Genie was lousy in stats, unlike Druid
|
| |
|
|
