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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 13, 2010 10:01 AM |
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Well I will try.
For one you cant read books about feelings & it is hard to know what a single mind thinks about.
I read about your comments about love, ego's & feelings.
It seems like you are reading off a book chapter & relaying it here.
It is hard to know what goes on in someones heart or mind.
There may be a person who can change your whole view of how you feel.
A person with a big ego may change & it can take little to change what they have learned so many years ago from the past.
Sometimes i wonder what conditional & unconditional love is.
People change & so do feelings.
I guess having an ego is not bad because it can help with confidence.
Having too much ego can be a turn off & may have an opposite effect which hurts confidence in the long run.
the Psychological Suffering reply was humorous to me.
You are right though. Ego does not do enough to cause frustration.
There is usually more to it then just ego.
Experience usually causes frustration & suffering.
Sometimes being raised a certain way may seem right, but in time when you do learn right from wrong, you may seem to feel pain.
Sometimes it is hard to change & you think it is the way it has to be to feel better.
Deep inside, you may feel you need to change.
Sometimes there may be opposite ways of looking at things.
Sometimes you think it may be right acting a certain way but it may be so wrong.
Ego is not nessary though, to live life the way you want to.
Usually eccentric ego maniacs just dont care about people who think they are better, smarter & just all out too good.
No one is good for them & they challenge themselves to make themselves look good to others.
Plus Mvass? What is right & Wrong?
To one eye some may think something is right but to other people's eyes, they will think it is wrong.
I may see something that is right but you may think it is wrong.
i dont dislike you at the least MVass.
I just dont agree with most of what you explain about feelings.
Maybe partially right but not the whole picture.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 13, 2010 10:15 AM |
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I think the main problem is that we are using the word "ego" in completely different ways. You're using it in more of the colloquial way, while I use it to mean "the part of you that thinks, values, decides what to do, etc".
As for "what is right and wrong?", good question though that may be, it is far beyond the scope of this topic. (Not to mention too vague for me to answer.)
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Eccentric Opinion
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 13, 2010 10:56 AM |
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In some ways. I do think you do make good points as well.
Mostly from experience of the kind of person you are as well.
Basically most of the things you say on here is from your own experience.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 13, 2010 10:59 AM |
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Oh & for you saying I am using it in a colloquial way 
Well you know me, I am a colloquial kind of guy hehe.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 13, 2010 02:03 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 14:04, 13 Dec 2010.
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mvass :
you seem to see things from a limited frame. aren't you applying what you learnt in school to love?
can't really say it's wrong, but it doesn't work the same way for everyone.
and I still don't think that not having a goal alone causes unhappiness. you are unhappy because you think you should have a goal.
an action without a goal is not based on thinking. no goal doesn't mean no result.
he said your action should have no goal and your attention should be total, so that also sets apart mechanical actions. they wouldn't be mechanical if your attention was total.
how that is important in love is that if it becomes mechanical, then you'll become bored quickly. if it is based on thinking, then you consider your wife more or less as a tool to achieve your own goals, she isn't important to you, the goals are.
though, it is more complicated if you consider your wife as the end and not as a means. but an end always becomes a means for something else.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted December 13, 2010 04:17 PM |
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MVass, you are priceless. Your opinions are a window, with all the curtains removed, through which one can see the true face of society along with it's system of values and morality around you. It is almost an epitome of what a man must turn into if he wants to climb to the top of today's world, just without hiding and pretending; because to truly succeed, one must believe what you do, but wrap it in a little more silk.
You understand what most people do not want to understand, that the world is being shaped to the liking of those ruthless enough to shape it. Those who understand that may choose to find against it - which is what you see as self-destructive and irrational, or join with it - which you see as the only logical, profitable, and therefore moral path to follow. You just need a little intelligence, decisiveness, a well-off family to be born in and the right set of bent values, to be able to rise well enough above the masses and profit in the sweet embrace of the "cream" of society. And you have it all.
There may still be things standing in your way, of course, but you know how to deal with them. Every person reaching the top of the capitalist material (and therefore social) ladder underlines that it wasn't only about their selfish, egoistic life attitude that got them where they are, but all the hard work and effort they invested, and all the chances they took. Whenever someone mentions that they stepped over some bodies on the way, they pull out the "the world is a jungle" argument, and it's alright. The thing is, that people like them - like you, if you will - made it a jungle, and they like it that way. They thrive because of it. The fact that there are people as good (or better) at what they do, but not willing, or able, to step over those bodies, just makes it easier for those who are; and the fact that their underlings are motivated to race against each other in similar, but tinier rat-races makes everyone busy enough - of course, also awakening the understanding and approval of their "the world is a jungle, what can you do" excuse in the masses. And hence the unfortunate hierarchy and values we have today, which are now reaching the critical point where you can safely call altruism immoral, and feel completely alright about it.
I gradually get more horrified and disappointed in general with your every post. They get me to thinking about the world I'm living in, and the way I'm trying to live, and the conclusions I reach are none too optimistic. Still, it feels good as hell to at least try to be as little a part of all that as possible, and live by all those, as you put it, immoral, irrational, self-destructive philosophies for as long as I can manage. It strengthens and empowers on a level you'll never be able to understand.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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veco
Legendary Hero
who am I?
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posted December 13, 2010 04:25 PM |
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Quote:
I gradually get more horrified and disappointed in general with your every post.
To me his posts are so absurd I simply can't treat him seriously.
I swear that I can see a microscopic  and the end of each one.
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none of my business.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 13, 2010 05:01 PM |
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Respect bak.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted December 13, 2010 05:09 PM |
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Just be glad Mvass isn't a lawyer. 
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selcy
Famous Hero
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posted December 13, 2010 06:11 PM |
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I hope the next two weeks go fast for 1910 I know how much you are looking forward to meeting her. I know all too well about the distance love but then is it any different to how it use to be in the old days when people actually got to know each other before jumping into bed. Sex can just cover mask feelings and what you may think is love just turns out to be lust and when the lust has gone what is left.
There are many different forms and levels of love. A parent loves their child but obviously its a different form of love to how they would love their partner. Then theres childhood love when your at school and you think you are in love with someone but the next week you are in love with someone else. True love will come to you when you least expect it and when it does WOW its amazing. People can give you advice on how to act and how to treat someone but everyone is different and you have to use your own judgement.
Love is therefore whatever you want it to be.............
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 13, 2010 07:03 PM |
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Quote:
Love is therefore whatever you want it to be.............
seems so
the maturity of some of the members (compared with their age) sometimes impress me. we are far from all the young people living in illusions and only thinking about enjoying themselves.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 13, 2010 08:24 PM |
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Fauch:
Not having a goal will make you unhappy not because you think you should have a goal, but because it goes against the whole point of being a rational being. (It also depends on how we define "goal".) We can have values, and act towards them. When we don't have values, we are naturally unhappy, without anything to motivate us or make us happy. (Of course, these values should be based on reason - you shouldn't value, say, punching people.)
And your point about love being mechanical rests on a false dichotomy. Of course my wife is a means towards something - to me, everything is a means to the same goal: my happiness. The way I get pleasure from a game is by playing it. The way I get happiness from a wife is by loving her and being loved. It doesn't mean the love is any less important - quite the opposite. I value her for who she is, and act in accordance with that value. (Of course, I don't really have a wife. )
bak:
I take that as a compliment. It's inspiring to know that you think I have what it takes to succeed. I hope that's true.
Unfortunately, you are not entirely correct. I am far from "the true face of society", though I certainly wish I was. The true face of society is more like that of Two-Face. It's contradictory, convoluted, etc. Unfortunately, the average person still holds themselves to some "moral obligation", duty, unnecessary guilt (not that all guilt is unnecessary), altruism, and other forms of irrationality, as well as suffering from self-deception, inconsistency, and lack of integrity. You're right, though. I do need to learn to wrap it in silk. It's something I'm not good at yet - but I'll learn.
Also, you don't have to be born to a well-off family, at least not if you live in the first world. There's free public education (admittedly it could be better, but it's not so terrible that I didn't survive it). There are scholarships. Etc. The primary benefits of being born in a well-off family are primarily those of receiving attention and care from the parents when you're young and transmission of the values that (hopefully) were the ones that made them well-off.
As is typical, you also misunderstand my use of the word "altruism". "Altruism" is not kindness or goodwill. Altruism is the imperative of self-sacrifice, which makes kindness and goodwill impossible. If you give money to a beggar because it feels good or you value alleviating poverty, then it's not altruism. If you give money to a beggar because you feel that it is your duty to do so and that you have no right to enjoy your prosperity while he can't, then it's altruism. When you help your friend, it's egoism. When you help your enemy, it's altruism. And it's altruism that's bad, not kindness, goodwill, or willingness to help - those are all good.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted December 13, 2010 09:43 PM |
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You are mistaken about goals and happiness. Not that it is an easy mentality to get into, the western world has trouble conceiving it. You pretty much summed the average person..
Sometimes I really wonder where you get your definitions instead of using the ones that have already been established by the rest of the world. Or whether I have been tragically misinformed.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 13, 2010 09:56 PM |
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I use the original definition of altruism, as defined by Auguste Comte. I don't think the commonly used definition is very useful because it's too contradictory - Merriam-Webster defines it as "unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others", but that is not a satisfactory definition because much of what is seen as selfish is selfless and what is considered "altruistic" is sometimes quite selfish.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 13, 2010 10:34 PM |
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Yea exactly, as i said. Definitions & book reading then knowing.
Of course Fauch says pretty much the same thing & gets the credit like everyone else
There are people who are just glad to be alive.
Some people dont need a goal in life but to have a family & do the best they can.
Some are just happy of living the way they can & doing the best they can. Not everyone is like you.
Some cultures, some are just happy to be alive & that is all that counts.
You are very limited of what you know on here MVass because you read too many books, gather definitions but you know only what you see in life.
Now the real question is who is more book smart!?
MVass or Baklava
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Dreaming of a Better World
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 13, 2010 10:46 PM |
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Quote:
Some people dont need a goal in life but to have a family & do the best they can.
Some are just happy of living the way they can & doing the best they can.
These are also goals inasmuch as they are people acting in accordance with their values - (successfully) trying to fulfil them.
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Eccentric Opinion
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted December 14, 2010 12:12 AM |
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All this doesn't have much to do with love, MVass (or at least not with relationship problems, which is what this thread's all about I think), so let's not further this discussion more than necessary. I, of course, hold that your understanding of Comte's philosophy borders Elodin's understanding of European social democracy, but let's leave that for another time.
PS
Quote:
I do need to learn to wrap it in silk. It's something I'm not good at yet - but I'll learn.
That I don't doubt.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 14, 2010 12:29 AM |
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Love is... when good folks feel bad.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted December 14, 2010 01:21 AM |
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Quote:
To me his posts are so absurd I simply can't treat him seriously.
I swear that I can see a microscopic and the end of each one.
Seriously Bak you accredit the guy with too much cunning and intellect. He uses pretentious words and flings big names arround to sound clever. On Heroes Community. Mvass doesn't have what it takes lol he's in love with his mirror that's all. Oh and his pillar.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 14, 2010 02:52 AM |
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Yes we know that too well from the years of knowing him Azagal
Which is why he is only correct when it comes to him talking about himself on here.
The ego, the intelligent mind.
Baklava is the same way.
They both have different views of course. All in all, they define love & relationships which Baklava has more experience on.
MVass loves reading about the war & the presidents more then his own life & GF as it seems.
Nothing more fun then reading two very intelligent young men debate about love & relationships, It is kind of fun reading the ego's
I dont have any problems with either of them.
I really do like MVass.
I just wish he was more open & fun.
You seem the opposite.
How can you know what love & relationships are MVass if you never really had it?
How can you tell us what in real & what is a figment?
Or maybe i should wait for someone else to write a similar Q so he can answer
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Dreaming of a Better World
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