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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 09, 2008 10:12 AM |
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^^I thought I was an overachiever with my systematic ranking system until Alc came in with paragraph-long expalanations 
Next round I'm going to have to include full-scale diagrams and essays in order to 1up him 
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 09, 2008 10:43 AM |
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Quote:
^^I thought I was an overachiever with my systematic ranking system until Alc came in with paragraph-long expalanations
Next round I'm going to have to include full-scale diagrams and essays in order to 1up him
Is this a judging competition also? 
The comments make it easier for me to judge, but also perhaps might serve as inspiration on how skills could be improved.
Now we just need a way to mod these into the game. 
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What will happen now?
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted December 09, 2008 10:44 AM |
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Quote:
^^I thought I was an overachiever with my systematic ranking system until Alc came in with paragraph-long expalanations
Next round I'm going to have to include full-scale diagrams and essays in order to 1up him
Dude... It's ALCIBIADES we're talking about! What else did you expect, lol? ^^
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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broadstrong
Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
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posted December 09, 2008 12:28 PM |
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Thanks to Alc for all the wonderful, in-depth explanations...and I thought my perks are good enough...anyway it is a good learning platform for me.
Thanks also to blizzardboy for taking the time to organise such a contest.
Hmm...Fortress perks? Not easy, let me think of some...
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The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted December 09, 2008 03:03 PM |
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Edited by Arcax at 17:21, 16 Dec 2008.
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Wow Im 2nd!  I thought Ill be last...
Thanks for analisys Alcibiades, you are objective But those names for perks like "Defend us... Memory of our..." are kinda cool 4 me so I tried to make one for Necro.
Now Ill revive my Fortress perks:
Striking Formation - Logistics
Requierments:
Defense VitalityDefensive Formation
AttackTacticsOffensive formation
LogisticsPathfindingWarpath
If a dwarven unit of lower speed is placed near unit with higher speed the slower gains half of the faster speed bonus rounded down.
For example : stack of Shieldguards(speed 4) stands near stack of Black Bear Riders(speed 7) - Shieldguards gain +3 bonus to speed-totally 7
Mark of the Runemage - Enlightment
Requierments:
RuneloreGreater Rune
EnlightmentArcane IntuittionTap Runes
Runemage can place a Mark on any allied dwarven unit which grants it a special feature to draw any rune used by other units. The unit which used the rune as first doesn't lose it.Runes accumulates giving more powerful bonus(Runic Fusion) if used earlier by marked unit:
2x Rune of Thunderclap - doubled chance to stun,
2x Rune of Dragonform - 4x Attack,Defense and +100% magic immunity,
2x Rune of Etherealness - 75% chances for miss,
2x Rune of Elemental Immunity - immunity for another element (total 3 random selected elements).
2x Rune of Exorcism - immunity for all 1-3 leveled curses to the end of battle
2x Rune of Magic Control - 2 effects stealed(even Rage,Battle Rage,Rage of the forest etc)
Exception when they doesn't - situation like 2x Rune of Berserk ->
4 attacks, or 2x Rune of Battle Rage -> 2x attack all nearby standing units, 2x Rune of Charge(Imagine Black Bear Rider with 21 speed...)
For example : Mark is placed on Defenders. Brawlers use Rune of Charge - Rune of Charge is automatically casted on Defenders
Berserk Rune works with Mark only when the marked unit had lost some troops.The same with Ressurection Rune
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 09, 2008 03:09 PM |
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Nice and detailed analysis Alc
And I didn't expect to be 1st, but then I most of the time underrate my own ideas.
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted December 09, 2008 03:11 PM |
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Edited by Arcax at 04:13, 29 Dec 2008.
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Ah Congrats Asheera , you wiped me out, now I have to lose my soul 
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 09, 2008 03:35 PM |
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Well, the wonderful part of being judge in a competition like this is that I can put my oppinion through as if it was the only thing that counts. 
So, seriously, don't let it bring you down if I didn't like your particular ideas, my review is based on my personal oppinion, so just because I don't rate your idea as the best doesn't mean that I'm right and you are wrong.
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What will happen now?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2008 05:40 PM |
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Quote:
This is a classic example of a skill that has too narrow an application. How often do you actually walk exactly on the path of another hero? Not that often - and it's pretty easy to avoid in most cases.
when you are being chased (or at least I think), I think that could be useful in scenarii where your opponents are much stronger than you.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 09, 2008 05:47 PM |
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Still, could you not just walk one or two points beside the trail of the opponent to avoid the effect? Of course, if he walks on a road, that would also have some value. Guess I hadn't considered that.
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What will happen now?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 09, 2008 05:50 PM |
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well, it seems a bit tedious to do, but maybe.
I also forgot to say if the effect is visible on the adventure map. if it isn't, it's harder to avoid.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 09, 2008 06:44 PM |
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Actually I myself thought that it's not visible, otherwise it would be pretty easy to avoid it.
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted December 09, 2008 11:34 PM |
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Bleck...Perks just aren't my forte. That's what I get for ingenuity. I'm out.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 10, 2008 02:07 AM |
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Quote:
Edit: BlizzardBoy could you give comments to the perks? it helps the people who make them very much and clears up confusion.
Sure, I'll PM you an explanation. I'll do the same for anybody else interested.
---
@ those who didn't participate in the 1st round, you're free to join in at any time. So don't be shy. Entry is free*.
* = your soul is forfeit to me if you don't win.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted December 10, 2008 03:09 AM |
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Oops, guess I didn't mean that one post. Stupid Bipolar disorder! HAHA. Well, its Fortress this time around? Cool. Reserved.
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broadstrong
Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
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posted December 10, 2008 04:03 PM |
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Let me try my hand on fortress perks:-
(1) Dwarven Blade of Fury
Under: Destructive Magic
Requires: Master of Fire, Ignite
At the start of the battle, each dwarven unit (excluding fire/magma/lava dragons) under the command of a runemage would be in a state of fury, gaining a +3 increase in attack but -1 to defence (+6/-2 if hero has edge of balance equipped). Moreover, all troops in this "fury stage" are able to strike with additional force, inflicting an additional 8% of the base damage as non-magical fire damage (hence not affected by magic protection, resistance or immunity)
Additionally, in the "fury stage",
Berserker's beserker rage allows offence to be increased by 1.3 times (rounded down) of the defense amount.
Battlerager's battle rage increases attack by +7, giant slayer ability increases attack by +6, but defence only by +2
Rune priests/patriarchs/keepers would not be able to cast any spells (spells are "locked") but their chances of inflicting Mark of Fire increases by 15%.
Flame Lord's flamestrike inflicts 30% more damage, chances of inflicting Mark of Fire increases by 15%.
Thunder Thane's storm bolt (and its accompanying lightning effect) inflicts 5% more damage (but no such effects for "normal" storm strike attacks).
(2) Combat Engineers
Under: War Machines
Requires: Fine Rune, Runic Machines
A unit (or a randomly-chosen unit if more than one such unit) of defenders/shieldguards/mountainguards (min 50 in unit) doubles up as combat engineers, ready to do either one of the following during its turn (limited to once per battle):-
(a) re-construct any damaged war machine at a cost of 0 or 5 wood
(b) repair any severely damaged war machine (current HP is 25% of original HP, or below) to maximum hit points for 0 or 3 wood but original HP of repaired war machine is reduced by 10%.
If first-aid tent is repaired in (b), it also gets 2 extra healing actions.
(c) remove a sabotaging of any of hero's war machines.
If troop does not do (or chooses not to do) any of these actions it functions like a regular unit in battle.
(Note: the use or non-usage of wood reflects the failure or success of the fine rune feat)
____________
The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.
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Arcax
Promising
Famous Hero
Its quite hot inside...
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posted December 16, 2008 12:58 AM |
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Whew ... another edit ... Hope they are good
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 16, 2008 03:34 PM |
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So tomorrow they'll be judged, hmm?
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 16, 2008 03:59 PM |
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Today's the last day. If anybody wants to do any editing or join in, now's the time. The 3rd round will be posted tomorrow.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 17, 2008 12:13 PM |
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It's judgement day ... so here we go. 
**ROUND 2**
Overall review: Scores in this round were a bit lower than last time, but overall more even. It seems to me that Runemage was a challenging class for you, mostly because balancing things is very difficult when you work with a concept like Rune Magic that is already imbalanced. However, several of you tend to overcomplicate things, at that's something that's something I choose to consider in my ratings, because super complex skills fit poorly in the game. Sadly, we lost several contestants in this round.
*LEXXAN*
Rune Of The Lucky:
This is a solid and creative idea; I'm a bit concerned about the balance, to even things off, I'd say that the skill can only trigger runes that the runemage does know. As a further twist, one can add that the free rune always will be of lower level than the activated rune. Prerequisits seem reasonable - one might put Soldier's Luck > Warlock's Luck as an alternative prerequisite, but that will also imply Sorcery > Magic Insight / Arcane Brilliance, which makes it a pretty tough call. Notice that current prerequisits cut you off from Dwarven Luck. Fine Rune might fit better than Refresh Rune, as you actually don't pay any resources for this rune (as opposed to below, where Fine Rune or Greater Rune might seem more appropriate).
Creativity: 8 - an excellent idea, fits well with the theme of factions as well as overall skills of this faction.
Realism: 7 - needs a few tweekings, but basically could go into game.
Runic Channel:
Again, a solid skill that goes well with the idea of the faction and general game mechanics. I wonder if the Dwarves, if both these skill went into the game, would be completely unbreakable - but then, the fault is not so much with your skills as with the rune concept in general, which I think is not that healthy. Chances to trigger seem very reasonable, and I like that the runes you've chosen go well with Light Magic properties in general and aren't that broken (like Rune of Charge and Rune of Resurrection). Perhaps Greater Rune would be a better prerequisite than Fine Rune, as you pay for the runes here, while the theme of Fine Rune is to have them for free?
Creativity: 7 - a solid idea, a bit similar to Helmar's special - in fact, I wonder what this will make of him!?
Realism: 8 - could well go into the game, although it's a quite powerful skill.
Total: 30
*ASHEERA*
Dwarven Stubborness:
Perhaps better named as Strong Mind or Dwarven Will? Dunno ... Anyway, it seems like a very useful perk under the right circumstances, but also quite situational, which is fine in this contexts as you actually have a chance of predicting whether it will be usefull or not (facing a Necromancer? Who'd even hescitate!). I think the perk has a strong overlap with Dwarven Luck, and the combination of the two will be very strong, so I think it's ok that you don't link the two directly through prerequisits. The combination of Intelligence and Swift Mind seems odd, however, because Swift Mind also requires Arcane Intuition, so suddenly you're relating two different abilities in Enlightenment to this perk. A somewhat demanding but not unreasonable prerequisit might be Swift Mind and Shrug Darkness - which requires that the Runemage has Dark Magic (I know, you have another Dark Magic perk below, which probably makes it overkill)! Doesn't happen too often, but an interesting twist none-the-less. Intelligence + Shrug Darkness would soften this up a bit - to make it more tempting, we might want to make it apply to Blind and Confusion also.
Creativity: 8 - an excellent idea, fits well with the theme of factions as well as overall skills of this faction.
Realism: 7 - I'm not quite keen on the prerequisits.
Death Runes:
An interesting idea, but I think this is overpowered. Runemages get pretty high spellpower, and 10 x Power quickly adds up under the right circumstances. On the other hand, how often would you actually get this, Dark Magic is not the best fit for Runemage. Master Of Pain branch seems apprpropriate, Corrupted Soil stinks, but oh well ...
Creativity: 6 - a solid idea, although not the most innovative.
Realism: 7 - I'm concerned about the balance here.
Total: 28
*FAUCH*
Runes Of Light:
This is actually how I wanted Rune Magic to be - like an "imbue" ability, that allows you to imbue the rune with a certain spell. I don't like the concept of using a turn on this, but on the other hand, the game is made in its current incarnation at it is, so if we want to introduce something like this, maybe that's how it has to be. Still, it will make it a pain to use, a bit like Dark Ritual - it might look like a good idea on paper, but in reality, who even bothers? Also, question is how many of these spells you'd actually use rather than one of the existing runes or Hero using a Mass spell? But ok, this can be a way to circumvent the problem of not having the appropriate class mastery, and hence not having the mass spell.
Creativity: 9 - a very original idea that adds a new dimension to rune use.
Realism: 6 - I'm not sure this would actually be used that much in game.
Wrath Of God:
While I can follow your reasoning on this, I'm not sure I actually see it in the game. Like Asheera pointed out, I'm not even sure it would be better than the Phoenix, and if it is, isn't Phoenix broken enough as it is? Also, the concept of exchanging certain spells with new ones doesn't fit the game mechanism very well imo.
Creativity: 7 - I think conceptwise, this is interesting, but for the in-game use, I'm not that excited.
Realism: 4 - I'm not sure this is really a good idea, and I don't see it entirely fitting with the game either.
Total: 26
*ARCAX*
Striking Formation:
Wow, this ability makes about as little sense as Offensive Formation and Defensive Formation, so I guess it fits right into the game. I got to say, however, that I'm not entirely convinced with the working mechanisms of this skill - if a speed 4 unit stands beside a speed 5 unit, it gets speed 6 and becomes faster than the speed 5 unit, which seems a bit counterintuitive? The bonuses seem pretty potent, although I guess the defensive playing style of the Dwarves makes it somewhat less important. Placing your Dragons and Battleragers beside a stack of Bears seems like an attractive option, but of course, if the bears move, the point is lost, and you rarely have room in your army to hold an extra stack of bears simply for this - and once you get Rune Of Charge, will you even have a need for this? The skill requirements doesn't match the style of the general skill system, neither Defensive nor Offensive Formation relate to each other, and the building of a skill tree like you do here has been abandoned since 3.0.
Creativity: 7 - a pretty creative concept, but I'm not sure I think it makes sense.
Realism: 5 - I have doubts about this skill and the balance as well as the requirements.
Mark Of The Runemage:
Yes, we have a Mark Of The Necromancer and Mark Of The Wizard, so why not? Notice that the other "Marks" are racial perks, i.e. this should be a sub-perk to Rune Magic - maybe we should displace Fine Rune to Luck after Ressourcefulness? The Rune Magic perks as they are deffinitely seem pretty boring. Idea is pretty closely linked to MOTW, I wonder, what will happen if more than one rune is activated - will the stack receive effect of all of them? That will be ... *shudders* ... this seems to provide a problem with balance. Maybe if only the first activated rune will be applied, or there's only a certain chance of success. Will the rune be for free?
Creativity: 6 - a pretty obvious pick.
Realism: 6 - if the proper measures are taken to balance this, I guess it could work.
Total: 24
*BROADSTRONG*
Dwarven Blade Of Fury:
Too ... much ... information.  Overall, I must say that this seems to me rather like two skills, which in fact don't have a lot of common ground, being grouped into one. On first hand, we have the whole Fury thing, which I think is a pretty nice concept, but which would probably go better with Attack > Battle Frenzy than with the Destructive Magic skill. If one would go with this idea, I would say that all Dwarven units should get the option to go into some sort of Battle Fury (Berzerkergang) which for instance could increase Attack and decrease Defence and grant some sort of Mind Immunity - or, if we wanted to simplify things, we could simply say that all Dwarven units get the Battle Rage and Berzerker Rage abilities. Simple as pie. Then there is the whole Fire thing, which obviously fits much better with the Destructive Magic > Master Of Fire theme. Again, this seems rather complicated, and although Mark Of Fire is nice, I'm not sure I'd actually feel it was a boon to have the spellbook of my Rune Priests blocked just to gain a 15 % additional chance to placing Mark Of Fire (if I am so keen for the Mark, I could go Soldier's Luck instead!). Instead, we should probably find some other effects of this ability - for instance, Ignite could apply also to the spells used by Dwarven creatures, i.e. both those of Rune Patriarch/Keeper but also on Firewall from Lava Dragon and Flame Strike and Flame Wave from Flame Lord. That would be pretty nifty.
Creativity: 5 - some good ideas, but too much jumpled together in one thing, which makes it too complicated.
Realism: 5 - I think it isn't very logical in its current incarnation, and I doubt I would actually choose it in game.
Combat Engineers:
This is a really nice concept - but again, less is more. We could simply change the skill to: All Dwarven units (or all Defenders, if you think that's too powerfull) get the Repair ability. I don't even know if current Repair counters a Sabotage attempt, but if it doesn't, we could change the skill to do, that would only be reasonable anyway. Still, I like the concept of Dwarven engineers, and the skill requirements are reasonable.
Creativity: 7 - it is overly complicated in my oppinion, but concept is good.
Realism: 8 - could go in game without upsetting game balance.
Total: 25
*MAMGAEATER*
Flanking:
This perk doesn't make much sense to me. Why would they do more damage when enemies are far apart? It seems to me you miss a very obvious choice here which could well have been my round favorite: Flanking - whenever two Dwarven units stand on opposite sides of an enemy stack, the units gain the No Retaliation ability - or alternatively, the Lizard Bite opportunity or something else. Would have been a great skill and makes much more sense. I need some more specific info on the bonuses.
Creativity: 4 - concept doesn't make much sense to me.
Realism: 7 - it could well go into the game without upsetting anything.
Scavenge Runes:
This is an excellent idea that both makes sense in terms of ingame mechanics and logics based on the requirements. Chance is probably too small to really make it a viable choice, however.
Creativity: 9 - the idea is innovative yet simple and would have a good use in game.
Realism: 7 - needs a bit of tweaking to really make it attractive, but otherwise could go right in game.
Total: 27
Scores:
Lexxan: 30
Asheera: 28
Mamgaeater: 27
Fauch: 26
Broadstrong: 25
Arcax: 24
My top-3 entries:
Scavenge Runes (Mamgaeater) - 16 pts.
Rune Of The Lucky (Lexxan) - 15 pts.
Combat Engineers (Broadstrong) - 15 pts.
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What will happen now?
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This thread is pages long: 
