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| Thread: Why does HC hate WoW/MMOs? |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 ... 10 20 21 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted January 01, 2009 08:09 PM |
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Quote:
I've killed gods, jedi, titans, etc why not a Demon hero, undead sovereign or a necromancer?
After all it is a role playing game, power to you if you want your character to clash blades with legendary figures.
Because they are major characters. They are key to the storyline. Simple as that. You've battled Jedi and Titans, but as what? As Jedi warriors and as Titan slayers? That's different. You weren't nobody, or if you were, you were nobody in a universe where characters aren't properly valued by storywriters.
Blizzard put Illidan on a pedastal in The Frozen Throne - the whole campaign was about him raising an army to challenge the Lich King - and pointlessly killing him in the next game is no way to follow that up.
And now those same players are going to fight the Lich King, after murdering his most powerful adversary 
Look, it doesn't make for much drama or decent storytelling if you end up reporting "And the great Demon Lord Illidan, slayer of Tichondrius, servant of Kil'jaeden, creator of Eternity's Well, clashed blades with the mighty Fried Cheese Sandwich Guild. And lo, he who had survived Frostmourne's chill touch perished at the darkened touch of the risen Maiev's jagged-tooth-spinning-thing."
Then again, if you could slaughter Queen Isabel in a Heroes V MMO, I might rethink my words 
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted January 01, 2009 08:10 PM |
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Quote:
year 105: Arthas the Lich King gets slain by rectum_owner, gnomish fighter from the clan gimme_loot
how sweet.
1 day later: Arthas the Lich King is mysteriously reborn to suddenly be killed again by another wannabee that had stalked him and missed his chance at the kill last time......
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Need moar avatars!
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 01, 2009 08:14 PM |
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Everytime one makes an unvalid point, a kitten dies.
Therefor, a lot of kittens have died because of this debate.
The only poster I think is valid is probably Cepheus, since I agree that its lame that cool people like Illidan dies although it does have a wast story.
Also he is my favortie poster after Spameera (which means "Spam More" in swedish).
Also Dargoth fails to see what hard to master means.
Less then 5% of playerbase experienced the Sunwell Plateu raid and banished Kil'Jaedan.
Also I changed it to Harbinger of Warcraft when the "Zomg WoW is terrible, redeem Xerox!" stuff started and was a fun thing - which I dont think it is now so please stop.
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You mean talent specs?
It is a great idea! It makes you not forced to play one role of your class. All talent specs are good in different situations.
The Priest for example. The holy talent tree boosts your healing, but so does the Discipline tree.
Although the Discipline tree makes you heal in an entire different way (aka through divine shields etc).
The Discipline tree is also better in PvP then Holy, but equal to Shadow. In return, Shadow is focused on damage and outdamages both Discipline and Holy.
Another good example is the hybrid class Druid.
The Druid has balance, restoration and feral combat talent trees.
A Druid who specs into Balance focuses on casting spells but can steal heal in 5-man instances.
While a Feral druid gets an completly different role. Feral druids focuses on Shapeshifting, allowing them to tank and do melee dps instead of caster dps.
And Restoration is for healing.
There are several diffrent talent combinations - depending on your playstyle.
And when I talked about tactics I meant the boss encounters 
For example Sartharion the Onyx Guard which I killed with a pick up group yesterday for the fírst time on normal diffculity.
The encounter is very complicated and fast paced.
Before you engage him, there are 3 Twilight Dragons you should kill. For each Twilight Dragon dead, Sartharion loses one ability - making him much easier.
In the Sartharion encounter several things happen.
The tank must face north, away from the raid otherwise Sartharion while breath fire on everybody.
Players cant stand behind Sartharion either, or they will get hit by his tail sweeps.
In addition, meteors fall down dealing a small amount of damage and spawning fire elemental adds which must be killed ASAP.
At 10%, Sartharion creates a lot of adds but we healed through the damage and nuked him.
The main point of the encounter however is the lava waves.
Sartharions platform is surroanded by a moat of lava. Every 10-15 seconds, several lava waves sweep across the platform and you must avoid them. The waves also change location.
If you get hit, then you die.
If the Fire Elemenetal adds get hit, then they will get empowered making it twice as hard to kill them.
And that was for the easiest mode you can engage him on, there is 7 harder ways to do him (but in return you get better loot from him).
The quest style is indeed like that. But you get used to it. It changes in Northrend however, where the quests are shorter and funnier in general.
I wouldnt say the quests are boring though, killing stuff is fun and fortunaly most quests take like 10 min to do.
The quest style is the same in all MMOs - and its one of its flaws. I agree with that - but can you come up with some variation?
Quests must be like that, there is no alternative I can think so.
But as I said, not all quests are like that. Escpesally does in Northrend or Outland.
Also you can level up without doing quests - you can do dungeons instead. I use a combination of both.
You obviously knows little of the game. There are alternative specs. An Arcane Mage damages just as good as a Frostfire specced mage.
Of course there are dps warriors and death knights etc but you would then prefer a tank specced one.
We dont force people to become healers or tanks, but they prefer it themself as they get first priorty on the loot then and many people think its fun to tank and heal (including myself, you control the fate of your group  ).
What you say is not true.
Im a Shadowpriest myself (aswell as a Hunter) and people are not angry at me because im shadow
I offer myself to heal in instances, but often people say "Hey, you can dps instead, we have time to find another healer  ".
If you want role-playing, play on a role playing server?
The "RPG" means that there is a story.
Warhammer is also an MMORPG - yet it is focused more on PvP where WoW is focused on more PvE.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted January 01, 2009 08:17 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
I've killed gods, jedi, titans, etc why not a Demon hero, undead sovereign or a necromancer?
After all it is a role playing game, power to you if you want your character to clash blades with legendary figures.
Because they are major characters. They are key to the storyline. Simple as that. You've battled Jedi and Titans, but as what? As Jedi warriors and as Titan slayers? That's different. You weren't nobody, or if you were, you were nobody in a universe where characters aren't properly valued by storywriters.
Blizzard put Illidan on a pedastal in The Frozen Throne - the whole campaign was about him raising an army to challenge the Lich King - and pointlessly killing him in the next game is no way to follow that up.
And now those same players are going to fight the Lich King, after murdering his most powerful adversary
Look, it doesn't make for much drama or decent storytelling if you end up reporting "And the great Demon Lord Illidan, slayer of Tichondrius, servant of Kil'jaeden, creator of Eternity's Well, clashed blades with the mighty Fried Cheese Sandwich Guild. And lo, he who had survived Frostmourne's chill touch perished at the darkened touch of the risen Maiev's jagged-tooth-spinning-thing."
Then again, if you could slaughter Queen Isabel in a Heroes V MMO, I might rethink my words
Key to the storyline until now...
And as i have said before. an rpg is meant to illustrate your characters story. if he becomes more powerful than another character and slaughters him...
If blizzard can create characters and their adventures why can't you?
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted January 01, 2009 08:19 PM |
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Quote:
If blizzard can create characters and their adventures why can't you?
writers >>>>> the readers (or players in this case)
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 01, 2009 08:20 PM |
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Did they really kill Illidan? Bah. It sucks. He would be fine in Warcraft IV.
Warcraft III had a good plot, btw. I kinda liked it. One thing I like in Blizzard games is that outside Diablo franchise, the bad guy usually is the star of the show (Kerrigan, Arthas.) and, well, owns the rest of the suckers. Quite unique approach to the all goody two-shoe gameworld.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Mamgaeater
Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
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posted January 01, 2009 08:22 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
If blizzard can create characters and their adventures why can't you?
writers >>>>> the readers (or players in this case)
but in this case the player is the writer.
its like a fan fiction. If i wrote a fan fiction and killed off a character in the storyline, well that is just fine.
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Protection From Everything.
dota
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 01, 2009 08:22 PM |
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And you cant judge The Lich Kings fate when it the raid will not be released untill next year -.-
Obviously, lots of people here (some expections though) dont know a snow about WoW or the Warcraft lore in general.
The Warcraft lore has a timeline and lots of stuff happens between TFT and the Lich Kings possible downfall (Sylvanas = The Lich Queen!!!  ).
For example Kil'jaedan was not killed in the Burning Crusade, but banished by the Blue Dragonflight and the Shattered Sun Offensive.
In the lore it is not like this "IPWNZOHARD and the guild "A Naga Stole My Bike" vanquished Kil'Jaedan from the world of Azeroth!.
Rather: "And in the final dawn, the Aldor and Scryers combined their forces making the Shattered Sun Offensive to put and end to Kael'thas betrayal and vanquish Kil'Jaedan and the Legion from entering Azeroth a third time.
Its all ready confirmed in in-game text and in Warcraft books that the old Naxxramas for example was attacked by a guy named Darion Mograine and the Argent Dawn. There Darion saw his own father as a Death Knight, and plunged the Ashbringer into his own heart - freeing his father but making him a slave under the Lich Kings iron will.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted January 01, 2009 08:38 PM |
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I don't like to repeat myself but in Xerox case I feel it is necessary.
Quote:
...That doesn't change the fact that you are a freakin slave to that game. In this entire thread you haven't said "Ah yes ok that is bad about WoW" you didn't even say something like "Aha... I see your point but I still think" you always say "NO IT'S NOT!!" (biggest achievement was you saying it's 50% true lol).
Have you in this entire thread admited that somebody has a point? I don't think you did. Are you telling me everybody who raised a point here was wrong (you actually did but I want to hear you say it)?
Don't tell me you are able of discussion when the subject is WoW. You are brainwashed. Or just naive. Or maybe just ignorant. But definetly one of the 3.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted January 01, 2009 08:42 PM |
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Hey people stop complaining so much about the story from WoW. If that's the biggest problem you have not playing WoW then I don't believe you... Sure it's something you may not like (to kill Illidan, etc) but there are far more worse things that keep you from playing WoW, I'm sure of it  like the monthly fee (this also applies to other MMOs) and the complains Dagoth posted...
I know I said I don't like the Warcraft lore, but that wasn't about WoW's story at all. By lore I meant the whole Warcraft setting (universe) which doesn't appeal to me at all - but of course there are people who like it like Xerox  (it's subjective)
And by the way this isn't a WoW-only discussion/complaining, is it? It's more about MMOs in general... or am I totally wrong?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted January 01, 2009 08:47 PM |
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Quote:
Hey people stop complaining so much about the story from WoW. If that's the biggest problem you have not playing WoW then I don't believe you...
No, I'll keep complaining. It's a perfectly valid reason, maybe not to you, but certainly to me. Stories are important to games, just like I'm not going to read a book or see a film if I hate the plot.
That doesn't mean there aren't other aspects in the game to enjoy, but the story is an important aspect to me. It's part of why I play several games, including old Heroes games, MGS, LoK and Warcraft III. Gameplay can get old and stale with the times, but stories can't. They keep things alive.
But I'd rather not take this apart and analyse it if you don't mind. Each to their own.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 01, 2009 08:50 PM |
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Quote:
Which more often than not is mashing the hotkeys...... Something like press 3, press 4, then press 5, rinse and repeat...
Nah you can automate even that with AutoHotkey if you know some scripting and you'll only have to press a button without being detected as a "bot"
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted January 01, 2009 08:50 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 20:51, 01 Jan 2009.
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@Ceph: Ok sorry then, didn't know you enjoy a good story so much and despise a bad one
But still is that really the biggest problem you have with WoW? That's why you wouldn't play it? Or because of the monthly fee, or something else?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 01, 2009 08:54 PM |
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You havent said anything bad about the Warcraft lore except it is stupid that Illidan etc are wasted to die.
And Asheera is right. As the title implies, I did not intend this to be about only WoW - but MMOs in general.
But as I play WoW myself and its the leading game on the market still (recently reached 11,5 million active accounts) the debate obviosuly centered around the game.
Also what Dagoth says is wrong, everybody who has played or plays WoW knows that Dargoth lies about "the entire WoW community hates dps warriors!!! nobody wants shadowpriests!!! one talent spec to rule them all!!
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Oscarius
Famous Hero
*sleepy*
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posted January 01, 2009 08:54 PM |
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Edited by Oscarius at 20:54, 01 Jan 2009.
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Death: Didn't know that...... Well, it may be a protection, so they don't strain their fingers during the "long runs".
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Need moar avatars!
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 01, 2009 08:56 PM |
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No worries i used it to automate combos for Ibuki in Street Fighter 3
(I didn't know of it before anyway, the scripting is easy if you know C++ though, otherwise it may seem a bit daunting)
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Lord_Evil
Famous Hero
Evil lolcat
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posted January 01, 2009 08:56 PM |
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@Azagal: you beat me to it 
Ok so we tolled you why we hate WoW, now tell me why are you defending it in all cost? yes i know that you are a fanboy but it doesnt mean that you need to post crap like " Blizzard wIlL tAke uVer za world!!" and star threads like this. For example im a fanboy of Pirates of the caribbean but if somebody says it sucks im cool with it, so dude chill you dont need to defend blizzard.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 01, 2009 09:01 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 21:03, 01 Jan 2009.
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And people that say you must mash buttons are wrong, in some cases atleast.
I agree that I do spam number 4 on my keyboard when I play my Hunter and click on abilities like "Rapid Fire", "The Beast Within", "Kill Command", "Kill Shot" and "Berserkering" etc when its but that depends on what class you play.
I like fast paced combat. I tried LOTRO and almost died. The combat was slow and the ability texts weird. The UI was horrible and it took one million ages to click an ability.
So Hunter was the right class for me. But Death Knights for example are more complex. They must watch their runes and build up runic power. Rogues must build up combo points and sneak behind their targets. Healers must follow the five second rule (which I dont understand -.-).
For boss fights, see my Sartharion example. I played on the easiest difficulity - yet we died a couple of times as it was our first time there for many and it was a PUG (pick up group).
However I did get an awesome looking fist weapons which I stole from a Rogue LOL ^^
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40429 = looks fecking awesome ^^
There is defintly strategy involved - but perhaps not as much on soloplay although I do swap pets on my hunters for different situations (I have a Rhino for group quests, a Devilsaur for raids and instances and a Gorilla for grinding).
And Lord_Evil - there is no point to speak with lesser beigns like youi!!!!!111
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 01, 2009 09:08 PM |
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Also The_Death you said in the microsoft thread that Blizzard started monthly fees. That is not true.
Everquest was one of the first MMORPGS which WoW "stole" many features too. EverQuest had an monthly fee and was released in 1999.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted January 01, 2009 09:17 PM |
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Let me put it differently xerox...
Would you choose a warlock specialised in demonology or affliction in your raid party?
Stop misspelling my nick, by the way
I raised more than that argument by the way
and the story can be good, but in that case, I have the right to complain about story-telling technique
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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