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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: [H6 news batch 26.08.10] ~ Discussion and feedback
Thread: [H6 news batch 26.08.10] ~ Discussion and feedback This thread is 13 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 27, 2010 12:16 PM

Like I said it will be 3D.
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Alustor
Alustor


Famous Hero
ooo da :)
posted August 27, 2010 01:01 PM

what i would like the see in h6 is a more complex and detailed storyline for the campaings just like in h4 or even better.h5 was a failure for me from this poin of view

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 27, 2010 01:08 PM

That's not something Elvin may help you with, I'm afraid. Of course we all want a great story, but we cannot say anything about it yet one way or another.
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Alustor
Alustor


Famous Hero
ooo da :)
posted August 27, 2010 01:18 PM

oh but he can help be sending my(our maybe?)thoughts to the developers and maybe maybe they will do it

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 27, 2010 01:33 PM

Don't worry, they will be delivering a much better campaign from what I've heard. But generally it is a bit late for such suggestions, game is planned for a March 2011 release.
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Alustor
Alustor


Famous Hero
ooo da :)
posted August 27, 2010 01:35 PM

that s great news and i know about the release date but i think they will delay it...anyway better to wait a little longer and get a well balanced game than get an early unfinished bugged game

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 27, 2010 01:38 PM
Edited by Nelgirith at 13:39, 27 Aug 2010.

Quote:
Bingo you got it. However they are working on the balance to give enough synergy so that while you can mass produce 1 unit that you have more incentive to try combinations of the three.


That's an interesting move. I approve

So for example, a Haven player could want to pump out more archers than spearmen against a Necro player but he might want to pump out more spearmen than archers against Inferno. Each player could really adapt his playstyle to his faction.

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DIEGIS
DIEGIS


Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
posted August 27, 2010 01:41 PM

From what I know all factions are well balanced in H5 (toe), but I learnt the map is making the difference
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 27, 2010 01:44 PM

Lol good one Diegis.
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whiterider
whiterider


Known Hero
death walks with me
posted August 27, 2010 01:57 PM

The greatest news is the new tier system. For tactical reasons I really liked the h4 tier system and I love KB system (5 tiers only, not 7). This way you can still use the weakest level units in the later stages and not going only for 6th or 7th tiers. And if the battle system is polished than there will be morale dependencies for mixing units - like no morale for undead, low morale for demons, high morale for humans and medium mixed morale for elves and humans. Because of the fact there are 5 races only (not a bad thing imo) we will be limited in mixing units and have to stick with own armies. The racial skill also will apply only to your race (only demons will gate, only undead will raise after battle). What I really will want to see is huge HP and damage difference between core, elite and champion units, not like it was in the lame h3 and h5 system (I didnt like that some higher units had only slightly more HP and damage from the previous level.)

What I suspect from the three pdf-s the H4 spell system is back - order, death, chaos, nature and life - this spell system was perfect with one core spell school and the secondary schools very good containing much philosophy - death is combination of order and chaos, life is combination of nature and order, chaos is combination of death and nature etc.

And for Elvin I have one proposal if he wants to introduce it in the "other" forum - mixed spells - some spell will need two magic schools so they will be not overpowered - for instance - puppet master will need both death and order skills to be learned - summon phoenix will need life and nature skills etc. And other powerful spells will need combination of sorcery and a spell school - vampiric touch will need death and sorcery or mass resurection will need life and sorcery. So a greater differentiation between might and magic heroes will exist.

The last idea comes from the fact that the heroes will have racial skill and "might" or "magic" skill.

The same can apply for magic heroes with the introduction of the "training" skill reserved only for might heroes - there can be a "hidden" skill for every unit that can be unlocked only if you have the training skill - like "domination" for liches giving them always the first strike ability in hand-to-hand combat. Different levels from that skill unlock abilities in different tiers - first level is for all core units, second levels is for all elite units, third level is for all champion units.

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DIEGIS
DIEGIS


Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
posted August 27, 2010 02:11 PM
Edited by DIEGIS at 14:15, 27 Aug 2010.

Quote:
Lol good one Diegis.


thx Elvin

we all know that on specific maps, some factions rule, so, the main idea was how can this be minimized/perfected?

EDIT: probably cant
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serptico
serptico


Adventuring Hero
posted August 27, 2010 02:43 PM

Quote:
The greatest news is the new tier system. For tactical reasons I really liked the h4 tier system and I love KB system (5 tiers only, not 7).


Incase you haven't noticed on what the news said, that there will be 3 tiers of creatures instead of 7 in H6.

I'm just trying to confirm this with you, does this mean that were only going to be able to recruit 3 types of creatures from our Castles besides the other creature dwellings? Unlike previous heroes games where we could of build and recruit more than 3.

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lichking012
lichking012


Known Hero
posted August 27, 2010 02:46 PM

While I like the change up to a 3 tier system, I have some concerns.

This system has the potential to be great, but I see how it could become limiting as well. First of all, I fear that the units IN each of the tiers will get fairly generic. I have a fear that it will be a fairly vanilla unit growth. With a Shoot/caster, walker, and flyer for each. The apparent necropolis line-up for example is a shooter melee unit and flyer.

I also feel like this may hurt some faction builds. For instance for a town like Haven the new system makes sense. There are alot of units of similar tier, like the archer and pikemen, and potentially that spirit thing, or griffins and priests. But Champions aren't exactly equal to griffins in power. Will the units be balanced for this? Some units logically should be better than others and I fear that this system. Conversely, relatively weak units, skeletons, imps, pixies, etc. now become the same tier as ghosts, horned demons, and arcane archers? Those things SHOULD be weaker than their counterparts.

I'm happy that the tiers are fading in a conventional way, but in a lot of others it makes sense. I fear that it may lead to more generic units. I hope the units are unique enough, and the system is balanced enough to make this a system work.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 27, 2010 02:51 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 14:51, 27 Aug 2010.

@Serptico
No, the way I understand it is that you get three kinds of Core, three kinds of Elites and one kind of Champion.
Every week you get an X number of Core creatures, a Y number of Elites and a Z number of Champions. Those numbers are to be spent at your whim.
Say you have a Castle that can build anything and so have I.
You may buy X of Core1, 1/2Y on Elite2 and 1/2Y on Elite 3 and Z Champions.
Whereas I may buy 1/3X of Core1, 1/3X of Core2 and 1/3X of Core3, 1/2Y of Elite1, 1/4y of Elite2 and 1/4Y of Elite3 and Z Champions.

It all depends on your personal preferences.
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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted August 27, 2010 02:54 PM
Edited by mamgaeater at 14:56, 27 Aug 2010.

I posted this in the other thread but now i realize it was the wrong thread. anyways...

BOOYAH, My whole 'Clash Of Heroes was one massive Spoiler for H6' theory is strengthening.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 27, 2010 02:57 PM
Edited by Nelgirith at 15:01, 27 Aug 2010.

Quote:
While I like the change up to a 3 tier system, I have some concerns.

This system has the potential to be great, but I see how it could become limiting as well. First of all, I fear that the units IN each of the tiers will get fairly generic. I have a fear that it will be a fairly vanilla unit growth. With a Shoot/caster, walker, and flyer for each. The apparent necropolis line-up for example is a shooter melee unit and flyer.

I also feel like this may hurt some faction builds. For instance for a town like Haven the new system makes sense. There are alot of units of similar tier, like the archer and pikemen, and potentially that spirit thing, or griffins and priests. But Champions aren't exactly equal to griffins in power. Will the units be balanced for this? Some units logically should be better than others and I fear that this system. Conversely, relatively weak units, skeletons, imps, pixies, etc. now become the same tier as ghosts, horned demons, and arcane archers? Those things SHOULD be weaker than their counterparts.

I'm happy that the tiers are fading in a conventional way, but in a lot of others it makes sense. I fear that it may lead to more generic units. I hope the units are unique enough, and the system is balanced enough to make this a system work.


I'll just quote what Elvin said

Quote:
they are working on the balance to give enough synergy so that while you can mass produce 1 unit that you have more incentive to try combinations of the three.


So, while you could go through the full archer way with Haven, it might penalize you against a fast opponent opponent and you would then lack some melee units to protect your archers.

It will be your choice to determine what mix you'll take with you. If they create a good synergy, you might be enforced to take all 3 creatures of the same tier with you instead of going mass archer or mass flyer or mass rusher.

I also think such a Tier choice should also help balancing the factions rather than trying to balance it with 7 tiers.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 27, 2010 03:01 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 15:05, 27 Aug 2010.

Nelgrith, I think it was the concept behind it that was being questioned. Not the balance.

Personally I find it rather logical. There is no reason why an armoured human with a sword should be incrementally more powerfull than an armoured human with a spear or crossbow.
However I agree that Imps should be less powerfull than say Hellhounds. However I suspect that that will be reflected in the stats of the individual creatures. Yes Imps should be able to take less punishment than a Hellhound, but those differences should be marginal at best.
Also I see no reason why Griffins should be lesser than Knights or Priests for that matter. Or why Vampires are less powerfull than Liches.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 27, 2010 03:04 PM

Hehe

What War-overlord said. The units are far from generic, wonder how exactly you deduced that. As for the balance we'll have to wait and see.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 27, 2010 03:07 PM

Quote:
What I suspect from the three pdf-s the H4 spell system is back - order, death, chaos, nature and life - this spell system was perfect with one core spell school and the secondary schools very good containing much philosophy - death is combination of order and chaos, life is combination of nature and order, chaos is combination of death and nature etc.

And for Elvin I have one proposal if he wants to introduce it in the "other" forum - mixed spells - some spell will need two magic schools so they will be not overpowered - for instance - puppet master will need both death and order skills to be learned - summon phoenix will need life and nature skills etc. And other powerful spells will need combination of sorcery and a spell school - vampiric touch will need death and sorcery or mass resurection will need life and sorcery. So a greater differentiation between might and magic heroes will exist.


I was not keen on the Heroes 4 spell system, because basically you were forced to ALWAYS go with the same spell school for each faction, i.e. BORING. Necro always had Death, Haven always had Life, no choice, no surprise for opponents. Heroes 5 system was much better, because even though it did favor two of the four choices, sometimes you'd spring a surprise, like facing up with Inferno with Light Magic, which was super-awesome if you could get it.

The idea with combined spells is brilliant, however. I really like this. The examples you mention are very good, and it would act as a counter for some very easily exploitable spells like Summon Phoenix and Puppet Master. Unfortunately, I don't see it happen in this game, with the changed magic system and all. :/
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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 27, 2010 03:07 PM

Quote:
Hehe

What War-overlord said. The units are far from generic, wonder how exactly you deduced that. As for the balance we'll have to wait and see.


My powers of deduction are known far and wide. Mostly for deducing much further than is needed in most situations. Still I can reason my way through many an intelectual puzzle or concept.
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