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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted February 15, 2011 05:52 PM |
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Indeed. That's what's foremost in my mind too, and it's the only downside to the complexity of this system: it may take a long time to get done properly. Balance will delineate the difference between richness and annoyance... still can't forget the situation with Air and Earth Magic in H3.
I won't be half-assed about it though, and the job is made a bit easier since Fly and Instant Travel won't be rearing their heads again
And the best news of all is that, in the very very unlikely event of Ubi imploding and releasing no patches, I'm quite certain we'll have much more flexibility to mod the game balance ourselves than with H5.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted February 15, 2011 05:53 PM |
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Just as long as someone won't be clearly overpowered than the rest, it's all good. Perfect balance is boring anyway.
What I like though is more abilities for Might heroes, I wonder what that's going to enable them to do besides their standard attack.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Willis
Known Hero
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posted February 15, 2011 05:56 PM |
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Well, as long as each school of Magic has some good spells in it, I assume you could diversify across many schools. This would mean choosing your magic specializations would be much more nuanced than ever before. You could get good at Mass Haste, Fireball, and Earthquake, while ignoring other spells in those schools. I like that idea much better than choosing just a few schools to specialize in while ignoring others.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 15, 2011 05:56 PM |
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Good news indeed. I only wish that there are no perfect templates and good variety of useful spells/abilities. If they manage to do that, the game will already be better than Heroes V.
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mancubus
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 15, 2011 05:57 PM |
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Even though the exact details remains a secret, I would say also that the skill system looks promising indeed. One of the best decisions they could have made about H6 imo So thanks.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted February 15, 2011 06:24 PM |
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Quote: Even though the exact details remains a secret, I would say also that the skill system looks promising indeed. One of the best decisions they could have made about H6 imo So thanks.
It would be nice if we actually got some more technical details about heroes and skills.
I want some crunch to go with all the fluff we've been getting.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2011 06:37 PM |
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Quote: The skill system is something I can happily say they're doing right - as long as it gets balanced well. It's got huge depth and is easily superior to the meagre selection in H5.
Technically, meagre skill selection in Heroes 5 was not an inherent property of the skill system itself, which I still hold is an excellent system that I wouldn't mind sticking to. However, I hope the new system will turn out good also.
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What will happen now?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted February 15, 2011 06:45 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 18:46, 15 Feb 2011.
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Well, with the exception of the school configuration and the Skill Wheel restrictions, the properties of the H5 system are more or less fully intact.
But I'd better close my mouth before I say anything of real substance.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2011 06:50 PM |
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Quote: Well, with the exception of the school configuration ...
Well, what I liked about the H5 system was just that, the school configuration, i.e. each school had a different theme (damaging, buffing, cursing, etc.) - which if I understand is not the case in the new system. But if you can't speak on that subject, fair enough.
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What will happen now?
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted February 15, 2011 06:50 PM |
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Edited by Cepheus at 19:04, 15 Feb 2011.
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mmrrrmfffhmhhrff.
@Alc: I always thought that dividing blessings, curses and damaging spells into schools of their own was bound to be inherently imbalanced, but H5 kind of proved me wrong (before Divine Vengeance came along). However, I would say it could be substantially harder to get away with bunching all abilities of a single type into one school like that in H6, considering the might and magic heroes (especially with a tiered/tree system). Each school does have an identity again - the level of distinction between them is somewhere between H3-style and H5-style - and I'm pretty confident that, with might-based abilities and... other things... there will be very little homogeneity.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted February 15, 2011 07:27 PM |
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Quote:
Quote: Well, with the exception of the school configuration ...
Well, what I liked about the H5 system was just that, the school configuration, i.e. each school had a different theme (damaging, buffing, cursing, etc.) - which if I understand is not the case in the new system. But if you can't speak on that subject, fair enough.
Could be, but new light and dark magic schools msut be buff and debuff respectively. All other schools could have a mixture.
I like the skill tree, but it does look like there is too much choice, lots of different ways of leveling up, no distinctive path for the hero. But maybe I'm wrong. What I liked about H5 was that you knew that there were a select few skills that you had to take for each faction (eg. warlock - dewstructive, sorcery & luck).
Anyway, excited nonetheless! Hey maybe those schools on the skill tree are water and air but they look very similar or different colours. If you look closely there is a little difference with the "wave" coming through.....
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foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 15, 2011 07:29 PM |
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Edited by foxxxer at 19:29, 15 Feb 2011.
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These magic schools smell like Diablo's magic system. Level up and you take a point. Then you choose a spell with that point.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 15, 2011 07:42 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 19:43, 15 Feb 2011.
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The Heroes V magic schools, being a continuation of the Heroes IV idea, were generally an improvement over the Heroes I-III spell system but remained pretty flawed. What I disliked A LOT was that each faction (except Academy) was limited to only 2 spell schools, 1 of which was dominating over the other. The spells in each school were not balanced very well, Summoning Magic was generally inferior to the other three types and early-mid-late game balancing of the spells left quite a lot to be desired. But generally grouping the spells after their "similarity" and not just some randomly picked element is something that should be further developed and not forsaken.
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted February 15, 2011 08:02 PM |
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Edited by Kenishi at 20:04, 15 Feb 2011.
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Quote: Just as long as someone won't be clearly overpowered than the rest, it's all good. Perfect balance is boring anyway.
What I like though is more abilities for Might heroes, I wonder what that's going to enable them to do besides their standard attack.
Indeed Perfect balance would be boring but I wasn't just faring to balance between the schools but also a more harmonious magic school, given fire magic should have a majority of damage dealing spells but also some buff/unbuff (one or two), while light should have magic related to buffing, healing but also a damaging spell or two;.etc because if for example you would take light magic, you would be a hero reallying only on buffs and healing forcing you to play like a might hero unless you take a secondary more destructive magic oriented school (or your troops are tough enough to be competitive having defensive game-play to benefit from healing and be able to buff them) thus making the development more tedious and difficult (presumably mass effect spells would be on higher level), so to make myself really clear a magic school should have its one distinct fell mostly destructive, curse, bless, but should not have to fixate itself on one type of magic (just damage dealing one or just curses etc.).
Also all of the thing mentioned above are just speculation from my part, but I hope Ubihol will release some more concrete info with some description for magic and numbers to clear out some fears.
P.S. Good to hear that Fly and Instant Travel are cut, which in Hot Seat or multi wear prolonging a map play needlessly.
Quote: And the best news of all is that, in the very very unlikely event of Ubi imploding and releasing no patches, I'm quite certain we'll have much more flexibility to mod the game balance ourselves than with H5.
Yeap for H4 I play with the Equilibris mod, so I think there won't be a problem if the dev deliver a really modable H6 editor.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted February 15, 2011 08:41 PM |
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When I look at the Skill picture I see 3 Important figures
each skill has either
a tick ( a learned skill)
A comma (spell that can be learned)
the X symbol (locked spells)
And I see some arrows from one skill to another (Mass or advanced spells?)
That would mean 3 spells at level 3. Not that good. The total number of spells sounds actually really nice.
But If there won't by more then one skill point per level, or the levels will ad on faster, I am afraid the heroes will have to little skills and abilities.
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 15, 2011 09:02 PM |
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Quote: @Alc: I always thought that dividing blessings, curses and damaging spells into schools of their own was bound to be inherently imbalanced, but H5 kind of proved me wrong (before Divine Vengeance came along).
Heroes 5 system was actually ingenious because you couldn't really talk about balance between schools: They were different, and thus it was situational which one was the best. Sure, some schools proved more or less universally usefull, but I think by and large, all schools had their uses.
But I'm looking forward to the Heroes 6 system, I'm glad to hear it's not a complete replication of Heroes 3 system.
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What will happen now?
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted February 15, 2011 09:10 PM |
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I think the issue with School balances wasn't neccesarily in how they did what they did but who got it. Ever faced Necro and Inferno with Light Magic or Dwarfs with Dark? It isn't funny I can tell you that much...
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Lokheit
Known Hero
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posted February 15, 2011 10:33 PM |
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It wouldn't make much sense to have the dark elemental as neutral if the light elemental isn't neutral... unless that it's neutral for this game and then placed on dungeon with the dark elves and faceless. Now this faction would be opposite to both, haven (light vs dark elemental, angel vs faceless) and wood elves.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted February 15, 2011 10:36 PM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 23:22, 15 Feb 2011.
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I'm willing to bet that it's a Dark Elemental and that it's neutral.
Elvin has already confirmed it's an elemental and it's also been confirmed that it's neutral.
From what little art we've seen of Faceless, it doesn't look very similar other then in coloration. (Dark colours, black, dark grey and purple.)
Edit: Out of posts.
ALMOST perfectly certain of this, willing to place bets on it:
No the Glories are not Light elementals, the actual Light elemental doesn't belong to a faction and will be neutral.
Similarly the creature shown is a Dark elemental and will not belong to a faction.
Edit2: Still out of posts.
So far what we know about elemental from screenshots, artwork and HV that we have acces to, I strongly doubt elementals will be humanoid in shape, unlike the Glory and Spring Spirit who are distinctly shaped like human females.
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Onryo
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 15, 2011 10:43 PM |
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Edited by Onryo at 22:55, 15 Feb 2011.
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The Elemental dragons have both their chosen peoples, elementals, and some even mortal dragon-avatars!
Elrath - Angels - Light Elementals(glories?) -
Malassa - Faceless - Shadow Elementals? - Black Dragons
Ylath - Humans - Air Elementals - Wyverns(read somethin about that..)
Arkath - Dwarves - Fire Elementals - Fire Dragons(salamanders)
Shalassa - Naga - Water Elementals - Dragon Eels
Sylanna - Elves - Earth Elementals - Green Dragons
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