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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 ... 200 201 202 203 204 ... 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Yaeliccc
Yaeliccc


Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
posted February 27, 2011 08:09 AM

Said it before and i'll say it again

I like the concept of bosses and boss fights HOWEVER

"Bosses" = Waste of a beautiful creature !!!!!

Knowing there are dragons, sleezy angels, an arch devil and a spider mommy out there whom I will never possess or with whom I will never get to play with and which i will encounter only 3 times throughout the entire game.... makes me sad , actually really sad

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted February 27, 2011 09:38 AM

A thing that is so common but i yet can notunderstand is.
Why do people want to see the same creatrues all the time? If wee put the same unites all the time into the game, what would make it different.

For example I am one of the "Few" poeple here that would "love to see NO ACADEMY" In Heroes VI.

I have my personal reasons that don't count as true arguments, but this is my opinion.

The more new creatures in the game the better. This is one thing I realy do Like about Heroes VI, that thay made significant changes to the lineup of most of the factions.

But I do haveto agree with KingImp

wee need more neutrals, we need them to by diveres, we need them to be recruitable, and when will finaly someone make an upgradable neutral?
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted February 27, 2011 09:47 AM

Agreed I'd hate to see Sanctuary kicked out for an old faction, no matter how much I love Dungeon (before it got run over by whiny girly people), Academy or any other classic factions, seeing at least one fresh faction, even if hypothetically I end up not liking it very much, is a step forward for the series. (Unless NOBODY likes it, but that's unlikely)

More neutrals is important I'd say yeah, not nearly as important as more factions when it comes to future content, but more neutrals balanced on different levels of power and recruitable will give armies greater veriaty, creeping greater veriaty and might even impact hero builds as some heroes might actually take skills to compliment their "wild" card unit and catch an opponent off guard with an unusual strategy.

Ofcourse it also provides more visual veriaty which is important in a game, I'm not talking quality of graphics here, I'm talking diversity, Humans get bored if they see a lot of the same stuff. (Though for some reason, many FPS fans seem immune to this effect as they can stare at a screen mostly dominated by brown and sometimes gray pixels for hours upon hours, while I can barely stand it for 10 minutes.)

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 27, 2011 10:03 AM

Quote:
A thing that is so common but i yet can notunderstand is.
Why do people want to see the same creatrues all the time? If wee put the same unites all the time into the game, what would make it different.

For example I am one of the "Few" poeple here that would "love to see NO ACADEMY" In Heroes VI.

I have my personal reasons that don't count as true arguments, but this is my opinion.

The more new creatures in the game the better. This is one thing I realy do Like about Heroes VI, that thay made significant changes to the lineup of most of the factions.

Well, I completely disagree with this. For me, if it works, don't fix it. I think the factions are what makes such an essential part of defining the "feal" of the game, and I think it's pointless to take out old beloved creatures just for the sake of making something new.

A pretty good example is the new Inferno, where I think a lot of the new creatures (to be particular: Maniac, Tormentor and Juggernaut) and step-backs compared to previous creatures in that faction (Imp, Nightmare, Efreet). Of course, that's also a matter of taste - I happen to love the Breeder, but still the Breeder brings something new and unique to the faction (no other creatures have been seen with tentacles and a huge, toothed ... something, that spawns new creatures). Maniac, Tormentor and Juggernaut are just further examples of what by now seems to be an endless row of humanoid/manshaped monsters.

Of course I respect that developers want to - and should - put some new creatures into the game, and I think the addition of a new faction is really exciting - even if it comes at the cost of one of the old ones; I can accept that, even if I think 6 factions in H6 vanilla had been reasonable. But I think the main effort to develop the game should be in other areas - like new creature level system, new skill system, new spell system, new combat mechanics, etc.
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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted February 27, 2011 10:30 AM

Quote:

Well, I completely disagree with this. For me, if it works, don't fix it. I think the factions are what makes such an essential part of defining the "feal" of the game, and I think it's pointless to take out old beloved creatures just for the sake of making something new.

A pretty good example is the new Inferno, where I think a lot of the new creatures (to be particular: Maniac, Tormentor and Juggernaut) and step-backs compared to previous creatures in that faction (Imp, Nightmare, Efreet). Of course, that's also a matter of taste - I happen to love the Breeder, but still the Breeder brings something new and unique to the faction (no other creatures have been seen with tentacles and a huge, toothed ... something, that spawns new creatures). Maniac, Tormentor and Juggernaut are just further examples of what by now seems to be an endless row of humanoid/manshaped monsters.

Of course I respect that developers want to - and should - put some new creatures into the game, and I think the addition of a new faction is really exciting - even if it comes at the cost of one of the old ones; I can accept that, even if I think 6 factions in H6 vanilla had been reasonable. But I think the main effort to develop the game should be in other areas - like new creature level system, new skill system, new spell system, new combat mechanics, etc.


Well I will try to demonstrate my opinion on two examples:
one on the topic "Why change something that works".
I'll give my example from music. Many bands often create there new albums using very similar sound. From the music i listen to Hammerfall or Manovar are a nice example. The problem is, that when you listen to the music for some times, the new album start to sound to much like the old ones, and you lose interest.

on the next topic "Factions crate the defining "feel"":
One of my favorite TBS games is Disciples II. when you look at the game, you have only 4 factions. !but! a wasp amount of neutrals. From giant, human unites, elves, lizard man, Orks and other greenskins, sea people, Dragons ... These creatures do not belong in any faction, but still have a large impact on the games feel.

I don't really have a need to comment the rest. Because i do agree with it
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted February 27, 2011 11:07 AM

I agree with Alcibiades in that old creatures that worked must be kept in the game....just more refined in terms of graphics and tweaking of stats and abilities.....

I mean we gonna have to see in expansions:

Master Hunter - Elves
Titans - Academy
Black Dragon - Dark Elves

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted February 27, 2011 11:19 AM

Quote:
one on the topic "Why change something that works".
I'll give my example from music. Many bands often create there new albums using very similar sound. From the music i listen to Hammerfall or Manovar are a nice example. The problem is, that when you listen to the music for some times, the new album start to sound to much like the old ones, and you lose interest.


It's the eternal debate. Some people get bored with something if it stays the same so they move on, others get bored with something if it changes since it's no longer what they've became fans of. Surely companies who develop intellectual products know that's the case so they can either cater to one of the two groups, either try to create a balance and give both 'old' and 'new' groups something, H6 seems to be aiming for this (whereas H4 underestimated the fans who wouldn't be able to accept the changes). But that's all there is to it, the devs know they won't please everyone but obviously they are not going to listen to individual suggestions about creatures. They decided to sacrifice elves but not the necromancers, they could have done the opposite so a different group of fans would have been pissed off.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 27, 2011 11:39 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 11:44, 27 Feb 2011.

Yeah, that is something we'll never agree on. Some people think using the same creatures will make the game stand still. Others think that if they have to renew everything all the time, it looses the connection to the old series, and that people could buy a game with another name if they don't want something that's close to the old Heroes games. Personally, I'm in the latter camp, but I also respect that developing has to be a balance between the two views. I still feel that in light of that, some of the decisions made for H6 are not the ones I would have made - i.e. if they want to add something new, at least make it something new.
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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted February 27, 2011 01:07 PM
Edited by MrDragon at 13:10, 27 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Yeah, that is something we'll never agree on. Some people think using the same creatures will make the game stand still. Others think that if they have to renew everything all the time, it looses the connection to the old series, and that people could buy a game with another name if they don't want something that's close to the old Heroes games. Personally, I'm in the latter camp, but I also respect that developing has to be a balance between the two views. I still feel that in light of that, some of the decisions made for H6 are not the ones I would have made - i.e. if they want to add something new, at least make it something new.

Completely true, whilst I love the new Inferno, the Tormentor could have been better if it was less human shaped, more like some kind of beast, insectile almost.
The Maniac is also a missed oppertunity, it's a creature of madness, then it is be truly a creature of madness.
*Throws out some Nightterror bait*
If they styled the Maniac after Obyriths from DnD, now that would be a good idea.

For those of you unfamiliar with Obyriths, they are a group of elder demons that predate most modern demon types from DnD, they are all beings of such perverse and twisted forms that just looking at them causes psychological disorders, the exact nature varies from Obyrith species to species but is often a phobia, obsession or hallucination that the viewer develops.
Obyriths tend to have non-symmetrical shapes featuring talons, eyes and other distinctly un-nerving traits, many draw inspiration from arthropods, deep sea fish, mollusks and a dose of good ol' fashioned body horror.






I think you get the idea.

The reason I'm letting the Juggernaut slide is because he's a classical demon shape that's only being brought down by his two runty humanoid compaions.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted February 27, 2011 01:25 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 13:26, 27 Feb 2011.

Well i don't know if I want the Manic to be more like that, but I can definitely agree that currently he's the most boring in the Inferno line-up.
The tormentor on the other hand is awesome, humanoid or not.

However if you want something grotesc to replace the Manic they can alwasy steal the Corpse Spitter from Diablo.

(but that one would be better as an elite or champion (and hmm it's kinda like the breeder...))
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 27, 2011 01:34 PM

The way I see it when you include units like the tormentor and breeder you want something.. less serious as not to make the faction too freaky. Of all inferno varsions the current one stands out the most.
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 27, 2011 02:02 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 14:10, 27 Feb 2011.

@ MrDragon > First and second pictures is

Quote:
Of all inferno varsions the current one stands out the most.

How so?

Inferno has never been my favorite faction, the H3 one in particular didn't do much for me (not mentioning Infernepolis). I think H5 was pretty good on most parts, in terms of creature layout I liked the addition of Nightmare and Succubus, and further including the Breeder is another step in the right direction compared to H3 (but removing the Nightmare in the same step is going in the wrong). At first I was sceptic about removing Devil, but I find I don't really miss him. And I do think Efreet was a nice Inferno creature.
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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted February 27, 2011 02:08 PM
Edited by Kenishi at 15:20, 27 Feb 2011.

Indeed maybe the 4 humanoid units in Inferno lineup is a bit much so if I wear to choose a unit (from the pictures that MrDragon posted) instead of the Tormentor i would choose the second one, why ? because the first one is basically a worm whit talons and I'm sure you would find a lot of people complaining that you have a worm invasion due to the balista already being one, the third on the same lines as the first and also so many talons what would it bee left for the breeder , the final one well it looks like a snake, some people would find it confusing seeing as the Naga are snake(like) so again to avoid whining gets cut.
  So returning to the selection the unit could work, it would have an ability like the Nightmare's Terror in H4 had while his normal attack is some sort of psychic attack well a lot of options to fiddle with, also they could have brought back the Efreeti (would have been a good time to do so), genies corrupted by the power of Chaos (hehe a bit of Warhammer inserted).

  Also on the mater regarding the: a lot of new creature and changes between installments or no change at all for creatures or introduction of new ones, yes balance is the best solution but so far my disappointment whit H6 lies in the fact that presumably we have like 8 summons as neutral(Bosses not taken in consideration), I mean they made the "efort" to go to the islands of Pao at list give us some indigenous neutral creature to the area as carnivorous plant (something on the lines of H4), maybe an insect like creauters, a panther saber-tooth tiger, maybe a baselisk ... a lot of options to go not just summoned neutrals which probably you're able to summon depending on the skills you chose, I'll leave it at that and hope I'm proven wrong and more neutral will be made available or at list not all 8 neutrals are summon types.

P.S. I used the examples that MrDragon posted because they are really interesting concepts and refreshing from the whole christian Infernal beings and what not that is present in HoMM univers (pre-H5 and after).
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Wckey
Wckey


Famous Hero
posted February 27, 2011 02:14 PM
Edited by Wckey at 14:16, 27 Feb 2011.

So, can we expect some Sanctuary reveal Tuesday or we will have to wait till mid-March?
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vitorsly
vitorsly


Known Hero
Joker!
posted February 27, 2011 02:19 PM

Quote:
@ MrDragon > First and second pictures is

Quote:
Of all inferno varsions the current one stands out the most.

How so?

Inferno has never been my favorite faction, the H3 one in particular didn't do much for me (not mentioning Infernepolis). I think H5 was pretty good on most parts, in terms of creature layout I liked the addition of Nightmare and Succubus, and further including the Breeder is another step in the right direction compared to H3 (but removing the Nightmare in the same step is going in the wrong). At first I was sceptic about removing Devil, but I find I don't really miss him. And I do think Efreet was a nice Inferno creature.

Ah... The Efreet... A COPYCAT OF THE GENIE THATS WHAT HE IS
I think he atleast could shoot or something (since when is a level 2 shooter good to be the only shooter of a faction *stares at lizardman and gog* I sometimes forget his name and I call him 'fire genie' If he returns Im fine with it but PLEASE make it different than the genie.

EDIT: wait a second! Now that the genie is more of a spellcaster with a sword I would like for him to come back using is powers in melle or range as long as he hasn't a sword nor a weird hat and cant cure/bless.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 27, 2011 03:04 PM

Efreet ARE genies you know..
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Map also hosted on Moddb

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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted February 27, 2011 03:14 PM
Edited by Kenishi at 15:25, 27 Feb 2011.

Quote:
So, can we expect some Sanctuary reveal Tuesday or we will have to wait till mid-March?


       Hope not that late,but at list in the first week or so, and also I hope it will have a cool lunch trailer (not going to be as cool as the Skyrim lunch trailer) a bit of introduction presentation of the units the main characters' back story (even if just a introduction) and some combat scene ... but one can only dream.
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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Valen-Teen
Valen-Teen


Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
posted February 27, 2011 04:19 PM

I thought 80 pics were weekend surprise, weren't they?
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Our hopes for Heroes VIII!

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soul_blighter
soul_blighter


Adventuring Hero
posted February 27, 2011 07:14 PM

i jus realised that there are quite a few creatures in h6 which feature a clawed primary attack....

from inferno: excruciator-lacerator

from necro: ghoul

from stronghold: jaguar warrior

from heaven: griffin (but that shoudnt count ryt? what else should a griffin do for an attack? peck? )

from what i'v seen so far from leaked artwork, only the naga havent got a clawed creature. i remember clawing vampires and behemoth from h3...and white tigers from h4...but usually heroes didnt have so many clawed creatures.if i'm not wrong, h5 didnt have a single one except if u count griffins.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 27, 2011 07:50 PM

I don't exactly get why ghouls have metal claws, shouldn't they grab the opponent and bite him?
I suppose the animation was just too complicated to make, as it needs to adapt to any kind of opponent.

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