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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 (353) 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Known Hero
posted May 10, 2011 11:47 PM

Another example could be Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles. 2D gameplay with 3D characters
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ChimTheGrim
ChimTheGrim


Adventuring Hero
That guy ...
posted May 10, 2011 11:56 PM

Quote:
Simply put, 2.5 D is a 2D, that as Avirosb describe as "Fake" 3D. Means, it doesn't involved with 3D rendering, if you need to see the object from different angle you need to create another "sprite" or screen to represent it.

The best 2 examples to explain 2.5D and 3D is Diablo II and Warcraft III. In Diablo II, even when if feels like realistic it is not 3D, it is 2D, you cannot turn the camera in different angle, when your character turn left and right it is actually 2 different objects animated. That's how it is different from Warcraft III when you can zoom in-out and turn the camera into different angles. You can see your units or heroes in different angle, all these are 3D and rendered, you only need 1 objects to see it turn into different angle and make the animated move.

So it is very clear that 3D requires your expensive 3D card especially those with super-realistic 3D rendering, but I don't see why a 2D pre-rendered animated screen will have any weight? my 5 years old PC can even run HD quality movie without problem.




Starcraft: Brood War is also a decent example of 2.4D. It was almost as 3D as Diablo II but just not quiet 3D enough.

On a less satirical note:
Its funny how when they originally said they weren't having "full 3D" town screens for Heroes VI, I immediately thought.. "well then its 2D town screens like Heroes III. Sounds awesome. Great. Great." Then I later read that it will just be a still screen that shows no buildings. And I was like WTF? Its so weird how they are calling this "M&M: Heroes VI." Just call it "Might & Magic: they didn't want us to make this, but we we're like, meh, doing it."

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 11, 2011 02:52 AM

Dudes and dudesses

The main reason for the 2.5D town windows in H6:

For ease of access.

Why does H6 towns need ease of access?

Due to complaints on H5 town screen loading from the fans

Towns may be of less importance individually ie. you will find on maps to own more towns, convert towns, play around with different unique buildings in each town to maximise your hero.


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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted May 11, 2011 03:15 AM

All of which actually being weak reasons Truth be told there were a few complaints about the H5 towns and their implementation but there was an option to disable flyby camera. Personally I favour the old style more, makes towns more interactive.
____________
Nicely put. Managed to get
God, killing and banging into
one sentence dealing with a
woman. Tells the whole story,
from the beginning of time.
- JJ to Stevie

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 11, 2011 03:53 AM

Old style meaning where you could view all your buildings at one time and when you dragged your mouse over the buildings it highlighted them and you could interact with it. Then also having options on side in drop down menu to do tasks (ie. recruit all troops instead of going to each dwelling to do this).

Yeah, H3 towns were the best....

H5 towns did have that epic feel about them, when you went into the town screen....

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Brukernavn
Brukernavn


Famous Hero
posted May 11, 2011 03:58 AM

These are not reasons, they are excuses.
The reasons are:
1) It's technically simpler
2) It's more streamlined (there are pop-up windows all over the place. Even the hero inventory is a pop-up).
3) They didn't see them as important (everyone only used the menu in H5, so why not make the whole thing just a menu with a picture?)

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted May 11, 2011 04:00 AM

Yes they were grand. But I kinda disliked having to rotate around to click individual dwellings, marketplace, guild etc. In dwarves especially you could not enjoy their town screen, only if you let it in flyby mode.
____________
Nicely put. Managed to get
God, killing and banging into
one sentence dealing with a
woman. Tells the whole story,
from the beginning of time.
- JJ to Stevie

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Dexter
Dexter


Known Hero
posted May 11, 2011 04:08 AM

Quote:
Yes they were grand. But I kinda disliked having to rotate around to click individual dwellings, marketplace, guild etc. In dwarves especially you could not enjoy their town screen, only if you let it in flyby mode.


True, but you got to agree, that their town was very unique in design. I was just the question of adjusting the camera settings I think.

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted May 11, 2011 04:17 AM

Yes they could have made it work, they just did not find it important enough. I think we can all agree that they will never top academy's screen
____________
Nicely put. Managed to get
God, killing and banging into
one sentence dealing with a
woman. Tells the whole story,
from the beginning of time.
- JJ to Stevie

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted May 11, 2011 04:24 AM

Quote:
I think we can all agree that they will never top academy's screen

Amen.
____________
| Heroes 6 - News overview

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TDL
TDL


Honorable
Famous Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
posted May 11, 2011 05:44 AM

Quote:
I think we can all agree that they will never top academy's screen


Not really. I am one of the exceptions not to like the screen and the overall style of Academy in general.

____________
Reality is just a warped placeholder for (our) imagination.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 11, 2011 05:49 AM

Quote:
These are not reasons, they are excuses.
The reasons are:
1) It's technically simpler
2) It's more streamlined (there are pop-up windows all over the place. Even the hero inventory is a pop-up).
3) They didn't see them as important (everyone only used the menu in H5, so why not make the whole thing just a menu with a picture?)


For ease of access / streamlined.....same thing....either way, it's important for all of us to realise this fact. To get creatures, build, access town info, etc. all quicker.....

Sucks I mean I also don't like town windows, but after we play H6, we might realise the benefits of it....

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted May 11, 2011 05:50 AM

I'm sorta with TDL on this one. Not because I didn't like the style of Academy, but because I don't agree that they cannot top it.
They can. And they already did, IMO. Stronghold and Necropolis were way better.
____________
"And if you're half as excited as I am, then we've discovered a whole new level of indifference." - David Mitchell

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 11, 2011 06:05 AM
Edited by MrDragon at 06:07, 11 May 2011.

I'd say Academy was quite visually stunning but like Overlord here I prefer Stronghold.
Stronghold had a simple but elegant lay-out and was THE ONLY TOWN in HoMMV where I'd actually click the buildings from time to time.

Academy was beautiful, but not functional, Stronghold actually came close to a HoMMIII-esque style, mainly because the town was designed in such a way that from most camera angles you could actually see and identify most of the buildings.

Most towns in HoMMV were to me at least, mostly a very pretty mass of buildings, an evolving art piece but at the same time, it was just that because most of them, like Inferno's town (which looked stunning) was a big mess of stone architecture, rocks and rubble drenched in orange/red light, looks cool, but nothing stands out.

HoMMIII's town screens balanced visual beauty with functionality and clarity.
In HoMMIII I could immediately see what buildings I had/had-not build without pulling out the town-plan and also identify which town I was looking at often (in the cases where you had multiple towns of the same type.)

It's important to remember that art in video games are more then just things to look at, you're supposed to be able to get information from it, when I look at HoMMIII's Dungeon, I know exactly what's going on, when I look at HoMMV's Dungeon I must use the multiple interface elements such as the town-plan, creature screen and look at which buttons are unlocked for my other buildings to know what I'm looking at because the town view tells me jack-snow.
It's very pretty but very unhelpful.

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Promising
Known Hero
AI Wizard
posted May 11, 2011 06:37 AM

Quote:
It's important to remember that art in video games are more then just things to look at.

Make that design and you have my 100% approval.

It's important to remember that design in video games is more then just things to look at.

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted May 11, 2011 06:44 AM

Quote:
Quote:
These are not reasons, they are excuses.
The reasons are:
1) It's technically simpler
2) It's more streamlined (there are pop-up windows all over the place. Even the hero inventory is a pop-up).
3) They didn't see them as important (everyone only used the menu in H5, so why not make the whole thing just a menu with a picture?)

For ease of access / streamlined.....same thing....either way, it's important for all of us to realise this fact. To get creatures, build, access town info, etc. all quicker.....

Sucks I mean I also don't like town windows, but after we play H6, we might realise the benefits of it....

For me, the town screen was never about functionality, and all about atmosphere. Through he series, the adventure map has been developed with moderate succes, but it was never the adventure map that made the atmosphere of the game, or had the 'wow' graphics - that was the town screens. That goes for Heroes 1, 2, 3 and 5, and is one of the reasons that Heroes 4 failed miserably for me.

For me, it is besides the point that you couldn't make out any practical information from the Heroes 5 towns screens - since Heroes 3, I never used them for that anyway. However, as soon as you entered the town, you were engulfed in the unique atmosphere of the faction - and while I loved Academy the best, the same was true for Sylvan (my second favorite), Necropolis, Stronghold and the others.

It might be that town windows are faster, more streamlined, and, well, cheaper in development, but I feel the game will lose a very important part of what made its soul when the full town screens are gone.
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admira
admira


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 11, 2011 06:51 AM

Quote:
For me, the town screen was never about functionality, and all about atmosphere. Through he series, the adventure map has been developed with moderate succes, but it was never the adventure map that made the atmosphere of the game, or had the 'wow' graphics - that was the town screens. That goes for Heroes 1, 2, 3 and 5, and is one of the reasons that Heroes 4 failed miserably for me.

For me, it is besides the point that you couldn't make out any practical information from the Heroes 5 towns screens - since Heroes 3, I never used them for that anyway. However, as soon as you entered the town, you were engulfed in the unique atmosphere of the faction - and while I loved Academy the best, the same was true for Sylvan (my second favorite), Necropolis, Stronghold and the others.

It might be that town windows are faster, more streamlined, and, well, cheaper in development, but I feel the game will lose a very important part of what made its soul when the full town screens are gone.


Can't agree more alcie, I mean Paul's music and Town Screen is the most important Aesthetic value in any Heroes game. Replacing them with Window will destroy a very important value that makes Heroes a Heroes game

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 11, 2011 07:48 AM

Quote:

when I look at HoMMIII's Dungeon, I know exactly what's going on, when I look at HoMMV's Dungeon I must use the multiple interface elements such as the town-plan, creature screen and look at which buttons are unlocked for my other buildings to know what I'm looking at because the town view tells me jack-snow.
It's very pretty but very unhelpful.


And ladies and gentlemen, this is the reason for town windows....

Hey, maybe there will still be that atmospheric epic feeling even in the town windows, I mean they said there will be each faction's town with their own music (from Paul Romero!)...

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Wckey
Wckey


Famous Hero
posted May 11, 2011 07:54 AM

So... now that Ubihole finally revealed all town creatures, can we expect to see some neutrals soon?
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Come back soon, Elvin!

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 11, 2011 08:10 AM

I would like to stress that I think the functionality of the window and lay-out have nothing to do with the size of the town-window or town-screen.

I want the actual town-view, to like in HoMMIII be both visually pleasing and informative, good art is one thing but good art representing my progress in the game with clarity is even better.

I do not see how this is related to the size of the window, or the music for that matter, because I think it has been obvious we still have town themes for each faction, I don't recall ever reading we wouldn't have town themes, didn't we even get some videos from Romero doing some of the music? including faction specific pieces?
the Town-Window/Screen issue is a different discussion with it's own thread, and I think we've all made our selves pretty clear in there.

One last thing I want to bring up which favours HoMMIII style town layout is: Multiplayer.
HoMM is a TBS yes, in single player this means you can play at your own pace, but in multiplayer you should try to play effeciently because other people are waiting for you to finish, the more direct feedback you get, the faster you can make descisions in regards to what's happening in the game, every second you waste trying to figure out your town is another second wasted for every other player in the game.
I can think of few things worse then wasting other people's time.
Sure it's a TBS they have to wait some time anyway, but anything you can do to reduce their waiting time is worth considering.

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