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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 350 ... 369 370 371 372 373 ... 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 23, 2011 11:57 AM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 11:59, 23 May 2011.

Quote:
No idea if they're too strong, the way Morale works has been changed (different scale), so that +7 Leadership might only be equal to an old +3/+4 Morale.


Don't think they are strong at all, I mean in the recruitment & training screenshot, the Sentinel had morale of +7 in the recruitment building alone......think it's the equivalent of +1 morale of Heroes V....

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 23, 2011 12:14 PM

Quote:
Which by the way, whilst a nice reference, seems a little odd, HoMMVI is set several hundred years before the last three games in Ashan, how could it be called the "Thunderblade" Helmet?!
MAYBE IT TRAVELED THROUGH TIME!!!!

Or Godric's received it from a long line of ancestors, passing it on from one generation to the next. Or the one in clash was a cheap replica of this ancient artifact
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 23, 2011 12:21 PM
Edited by MrDragon at 12:58, 23 May 2011.

But wasn't "THUNDERBLADE!" just a name he thought up on the spot?
Or was it?!... DUN DUN DUN!!!
____________
Mr.Dragon Factions in production.
Citadel: 7/7 creatures, 2/2 hero base classes. (complete, for now)

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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 23, 2011 01:25 PM

Obviously there is a new scale of the stats. Look the Slava's stats (1st pic) posted by Lepastur in Artwork thread. The value of "moral" (I suppose the new name is Leadership) is 27 points (pos. 1). Also Goblin's Might Attack skill is 37 points (pos. 2). In previous games Goblin's Attack skill is not more than 4 points. But the different scales aren't something new in the series. Do you remember H4’s skills. Actually H6 reminds to H4 in that part of the game. In H4 there are Melee Attack/Defence and Range Attack/Defence, H6 there are Might Attack/Defence and Magic Attack/Defence.


Do you recognize the artifact position 4?
I'm wondering what are the fist (pos. 3) and the chalice (pos. 5). The chalice maybe is a initiative? Also I can’t see anywhere creature’s basic damage on neither screenshot.
   

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 23, 2011 01:50 PM

The damage is slightly hidden. Just above the marksman portrait

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 23, 2011 01:53 PM

Quote:
When I play a map and finish it, I don't feel like playing it again choosing different skills on my hero....I like to play a new map with different areas/objects on the map

Random Map Generators all the way!


I completely agree

And storyline / character background is the absolute last reason I play HOMM.  To be honest, I've never once done a full campaign for any game in the homm series.  My two favorite parts of the game are Multiplayer, and single player casual (but challenging) exploration & domination of the computer.  

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 23, 2011 01:55 PM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 13:56, 23 May 2011.

Hey Foxxxer

Pos 1 is not Morale, this flag is Speed / Initiative.
Pos 5 of the chalice is Morale.

Worked this out from the Igromir video....vampires have very high speed / initiative at 45! The chalice for necro creatures was always NIL.

You can see on your Marksmen picture, the damage range at the top behind the marksmen window showing 43 - 76....

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 23, 2011 02:22 PM
Edited by MrDragon at 14:28, 23 May 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
Question:
How does every strategy game WITHOUT a RMG last so long?
Answer: User Generated Content.
Why sure, if we disregard the fact that the creation of a decent WarCraft-like RTS map takes between half an hour and several hours at most while making a good, two-layered L or XL Heroes map requires weeks and even months of dedicated making and testing, you are right.

Half an hour to several hours?! are you mad?!?!, I've made loads of WC3 maps, it takes me almost a week's worth of free time to build a simple 4 player skirmish map without any scripting beyond the basics.
Try making a cool scripted map, I've got one I worked on for about half a year and got nowhere near done... but that was just poor planning on my part, big maps cannot be made by 1 person.

Though admittedly I also once made an 8 player HoMM map which took nearly 3 weeks without testing.
But, in both cases, both HoMMIII, HoMMV and many other great strategy games have huge followings which are more then capable of making good maps.

Uhm... point is, yes it takes long to make a good map, but time and time again, fanbases for these games have proven to be capable of delivering many fantastic maps.

I'm not saying I don't want an RMG, but I do want one that works (unlike the HoMMV RMG which sucked) and it's not something that is easily done.

Though I believe they mentioned they were intending on making an RMG, it wasn't going to ship with it.


Edit: To be fair, I think Warcraft III has a much larger map-making fanbase, and that is a very serious factor.

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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 23, 2011 02:26 PM
Edited by foxxxer at 14:33, 23 May 2011.

Quote:
The damage is slightly hidden. Just above the marksman portrait

No, it's the ghost/spectre damage that can deal on the Marksmans. Here is the full screenshot. I meant basic damage on the stats because probably the damage of the creature is affected by the hero stats.

Quote:
Pos 1 is not Morale, this flag is Speed / Initiative.
Pos 5 of the chalice is Morale.


I don't think so. Compare the Hero stats and the creature (Goblin) stats. I think the flag is Morale (or Leadership), the boot (Gob. stats) is Speed (Movement). Otherwise why doesn't hero have Morale but Speed/Initiative.
Also I think that the Goblin's stats are grouped in columns (except the 3rd row):
1st – Attack Might & Magic
2nd – Defence Might & Magic
3rd – Moral & Luck
4th – Health & ?????

And the 3rd row: Range (Full/Half/none) and Speed (Movement)

Edit:
The hero's stats in columns:
1st – Attack Might & Magic
2nd – Defence Might & Magic
3rd – ?????? & Mana
4th – Moral & Luck

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Nocturnal
Nocturnal


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 23, 2011 03:27 PM
Edited by Nocturnal at 15:29, 23 May 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
Nowhere does it mention that Inferno will be resisitant to fire....only that certain inferno heroes/creatures make fire magic more powerful....
I think it's high time to make the creatures which come from a fiery realm and have animations including flames less vulnerable to fire than your regular pixie. Even if it's just 20-30% reduction, at least it will finally start making sense.


Not only %20-30 I think they should be totally immune to fire. Undead creatures are immune to moral effects and to mind control spells only because they are undead. The top three tiers of Fortress were immune to all Fire for f**k's sake! Those Armageddon spams they made in matches are still in my nightmares. So it is only fair that Inferno creatures who dwell in fire have fire immunity.

Quote:
If you think im going to play the sAme map twice, whats the fun in that? Thats why a random map generator is mandatory for this game.


Quote:
When I play a map and finish it, I don't feel like playing it again choosing different skills on my hero....I like to play a new map with different areas/objects on the map


Are we talking about just single scenario maps here or also hot-seat maps? Because if you're talking about hot-seat maps one of us is very odd here I can't even remember how many times I have played "Former Friends", "Neighbours" and "No Man's Land"
____________

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 23, 2011 03:28 PM

Hero doesn't have the chalice cos Hero doesn't have morale. Only the troops do, works differently from H5...as each stack can attack twice with morale but not the hero in each round.

Your rows are confusing (there are 4 stats per row).

Hero stats:

1st row: might attack, might defense, might damage, initiative
2nd row: magic attack, magic defense, mana, luck

Goblin stats:

1st row: might attack, might defense, initiative, health
2nd row: magic attack, magic defense, luck, morale
3rd row: ranged bonus, movement (same as speed in H5)

I analysed the Igromir video and compared each stat....you'll see the necro troops have NIL next to the chalice...ie no morale...

Also the way which troops went first was according to the flag stat, ie. initiative...

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foxxxer
foxxxer


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 23, 2011 03:58 PM

Quote:
Your rows are confusing (there are 4 stats per row).

I said columns. Just exclude for a moment 3rd row from the table.
Anyway.
Maybe you're right about the chalice icon. I watched Igromir video again and the Necropolis creatures have 0 points on the chalice icon. So maybe it's Morale. But I'm still confused about hero's flag icon. If you're right then why does hero need iniative?
Also according today's artifacts reveal. What is Leadership (+4 or +7) then - stat or ability? And if it's ability, does it mean the abilities can be boosted more than one point?

We need more clearness about stats. Also the calculation formula of damage.


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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 23, 2011 04:40 PM

Quote:


Quote:
When I play a map and finish it, I don't feel like playing it again choosing different skills on my hero....I like to play a new map with different areas/objects on the map


Are we talking about just single scenario maps here or also hot-seat maps? Because if you're talking about hot-seat maps one of us is very odd here I can't even remember how many times I have played "Former Friends", "Neighbours" and "No Man's Land"


I guess I'm odd too then.  Because in both single player and multiplayer I don't want to play the same map twice.  I might play single player as a different color on occasion, but not knowing where things are is a big part of the excitement for me in game.

Exactly how hard is it to make a good RMG?  I recall some people making their own (FOR FREE!) that were much better than the one that came with Homm5.  


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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted May 23, 2011 05:19 PM

Don't worry too much about the icons, some have long since changed They are a lot easier to identify.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

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seddy
seddy


Known Hero
Spinner of delicious cupcakes
posted May 23, 2011 05:29 PM

How hard it is to make an RMG? I don't know. I would guess that it is a lot easier to mod one than to create one though.

There are quite a few variables in making a map, everything from getting reasonable paths to balance adventure objects, water, etc. There's so many thing that can occupy a space. To make sure that RMG maps are varied, I'm guessing the programming must be fairly complex.

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Zeki
Zeki


Supreme Hero
sup
posted May 23, 2011 05:57 PM
Edited by Zeki at 17:58, 23 May 2011.

Programming a game is also complex, but hey, they made it (or atleast, hopefully in september)! So a rmg should really be makeable.
____________

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 23, 2011 06:18 PM

Quote:
Programming a game is also complex, but hey, they made it (or atleast, hopefully in september)! So a rmg should really be makeable.

You make it sound so easy, so why haven't you made one yet ?

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted May 23, 2011 06:23 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 18:25, 23 May 2011.

Quote:
Half an hour to several hours?! are you mad?!?!, I've made loads of WC3 maps, it takes me almost a week's worth of free time to build a simple 4 player skirmish map without any scripting beyond the basics.
I'm talking about a standard MP map and NOT necessarily for WarCraft 3 (I said WarCraft-like games) where you need to add creeps, neutral objects and other such thingies which could take 1-2 days, several hours each (sorry, I used to make such maps too, this week of yours sounds awfully and unnecessarily perfectionistic). A regular StarCraft MP map for 4-6 players can be completed in 5-6 hours and edited to be balanced enough in minutes, after some testing of course. A decent large, balanced, with underground Heroes III-V map simply can not be completed in less than a week - and that's if you spend no less than 5-6 hours each day, skip half of the features like the triggerable events, writing texts and such. Normally it takes much more.
Quote:
Though I believe they mentioned they were intending on making an RMG, it wasn't going to ship with it.
There won't be any RMG with the release, that's more or less certain. But the mere presence of the map editor won't suffice to compensate for its absence. It was already mentioned that the vast majority of the fan-made maps are crappy at best and the really good ones will take quite some time to appear. We discussed this before.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 23, 2011 06:45 PM

Quote:
Don't worry too much about the icons, some have long since changed They are a lot easier to identify.


In the Igromir video, the hero screen looks pretty much like the latest screen we've seen, so have the chalices and flags changed?

@foxxxxxxxxxxer:

Can heros have initiative? Yes, even in Heroes 5, Initiative of standard 10...maybe Hero initiatives change according to might or magic users, blood or tears...

What is leadership? Probably morale, so it's a skill stat....and like initiative...morale numbers are in the double digits, more so for initiative...

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted May 23, 2011 06:52 PM

Ok. So I understand that there are people that actually used the RMG in prewies games.

As much as this surprises me I still do not understand how could they play such maps.

Why do I don't understand this?
well if I look at any random map I see nothing more then a "random" bunch of objects, Items and landscape. There is nothing like the Armagednos blade laing in front of your castle or a legion of golem guarding a Tarot deck. And put your hand on your hearth were such things rare on the Random maps. no they were not.

For 1 I still feel sorry for those people that actually play such maps. But I will scheme how I picture a good RMG

1: It does not work whit compleitly random placing, but can divide the map into several regions.
2: These regions are generated individually.
3: All objects are rated by a certain scale. All regions are created in such a way that there value is similar.
4: The generator works whit a large number of functioning and complex combinations of objects.
5: there is a limit for extremely adventagies game content
6: Before the game itself, the RMG doublecheks that all Objects are accesable.

I expect from a RMG that the I use it and I can enoye the game.Not to get mad because I Win or Lose to easy
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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