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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 (375) 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted May 25, 2011 06:19 AM

The very fact that they developed the concept of tears and blood should speak volumes. H5 and its accompanying Ashan lore at the time tried to inject a good dose of grey in the factions and indeed other than a few gameplay indicators - such as the edge of balance - you could not clearly classify a faction. Of course to say that they could have done better in the way of immersion and moral ambiguity would be an understatement
____________
Then what's your excuse for that
steady stream of mindless
pollution that you call talking,
Edwin?

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted May 25, 2011 06:30 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 06:31, 25 May 2011.

The blood/tears concept is unlikely to change the overall orientation of the factions. Inferno can never be the good guys as long as Urgash wants to destroy Asha's creation and the Demons are his servants (or actually it's possible - if you make a plot hole with the size of the Death Star). Likewise Haven can never lose their image of some group of idiot zealots as long as they stick to their faiths, priests, angels, inquisitions and so on. Certain heroes could add some nuance but the general image is much more "crystallized". I see no reason why this can not be applied to every faction, including Sanctuary.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Supreme Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted May 25, 2011 06:49 AM

Quote:
Demons are probably on their own here though as they are perceived as "evil" by all other factions....but to have this good/evil split in the factions might not apply in H6, but we can't be sure.

All we can be sure about is that there are no longer "might" factions and "magic" factions, depending on class of hero you choose....but not sure about good or evil factions...

From the story of Ashan it is clear to see who are good and who are evil factions.....

Evil:
worshipping death
worshipping urgash
getting pumped up with demon blood
worshipping darkness

Good:
worshipping light
having pointy ears
hammering in the mines
worshipping air
worshipping water



If you really want to compare the story, you must look at the history and the protagonists.
I will for example start with the Necromancers.. A stereortipical Evil faction.

How were they created? There origin is a cast of wizards? Are wizards steretipicly Evil? Well can but mostly they are not.
How did they separate? Wizards were jealous and started a civil war. So the Wizards were the Aggressors.
Who do they worship? Order in the form of death. Death sounds Evil but if its one of the parts of Order, does that sound Evil to you?

And now let us look at the protagonist of some of the Games related to the undead.
Let us start with Markal. A evil ambitiose power loving Necromancer. Clearly a villain.
Giovany: Another such character. Thirsty for power and position.
But we have a second side of this coin.
Ornela: Fascinated by death and curios for knowledge, but still a positive character.
Raven: Has some morbid passions and fetishes, but still she was the one who was seeking a new home, and was attacked by the Wizards.
Arantir: A wise man whit a quest that must be fullfild. Chosen as an Avatar by his Goddess who created the whole world. A savior. Even thou he is willing to sacrifice thousand of lives for the greater good. He is still a character that works for the better of all. This is basic characteristic of "Good" characters.

I would like if someone could add Fiona to any of these groups.

To sum up, necromancers On Ashan not Evil from nature, but as everywhere there are good and evil individuals.

Same could be done for Orcs in this setting.
In my Eyes Wizards are a much more "EVIL" faction, judging by there actions, then Orcs or Necromancers.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we
store, we teach. We are many,
and you can be one of us.

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted May 25, 2011 07:02 AM
Edited by Avirosb at 07:20, 25 May 2011.

Sorry to bring up H4 but
Quote:
Arantir: A wise man whit a quest that must be fullfild. Chosen as an Avatar by his Goddess who created the whole world. A savior. Even thou he is willing to sacrifice thousand of lives for the greater good. He is still a character that works for the better of all. This is basic characteristic of "Good" characters.

Grand Vizier Gavin Magnus was also a well-intentioned extremist, yet he was labeled a villain. (Granted, he wanted to remove free will and was clearly off his rocker, but then again, he had witnessed, experienced the destruction of a world.)

EDIT:

Armour of the Legendary Hero
Effect: +2 to all hero primary attributes

Who is the legendary hero?! I must know!

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Elvin
Elvin

Hero of Order
Stillness within Movement
posted May 25, 2011 07:20 AM

That reminds me



@zenofex
That's kinda the point, puts the ball on the hero's court.
____________
Then what's your excuse for that
steady stream of mindless
pollution that you call talking,
Edwin?

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 25, 2011 07:40 AM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 07:45, 25 May 2011.

Quote:
What's frere?.


Means "brother" in french!

Quote:

worshipping air
So far, no in-game playable faction does this.


@Mr Dragon - nice pointers

Haven used to worship air, then moved to worshipping light and formed the Falcon Empire....those that didn't like this continued to worship air and moved to form the free cities....wizards.

The great dragon, Sylath/Ylath, is still worshipped by barbarians to the north, however, and by some inhabitants of the Free Cities to the east, even some wizards pay honor to the Dragon of Air, for he possesses arcane knowledge gleaned from his great skill at listening, but the great times of worship for him are over.

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Mike80D
Mike80D


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 08:06 AM
Edited by mike80d at 08:07, 25 May 2011.

I definitely like the idea of tears/blood. It reminds me of

Also, obviously if they had to fix the game or make more maps I'd want them to fix the game.  But they never answered for why they're making so few maps.  The hardest part is making the game and making it balanced.  Why so much work to make a great game yet so little attention to the maps themselves??

I've never played Warcraft 3.  Do you guys honestly think if I opened up the map editor today for WC3 and made a map that it'd be any good?  No.  It'd be horrible b/c I've never played.  How the heck can we possibly get some "classicaly great Heroes 6 maps" made prior to the game coming out?  I get the impression that the developers are basically saying "we'll make the mechanics, you make the game."  

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 25, 2011 08:58 AM

Quote:
Armour of the Legendary Hero
Effect: +2 to all hero primary attributes

Who is the legendary hero?! I must know!


I don't think it refers to any particular hero. Maybe it comes from the same person that the Skull of Shadows comes from, Sar-Elam.

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MSG-1-1
MSG-1-1


Known Hero
posted May 25, 2011 08:58 AM

Quote:
I definitely like the idea of tears/blood. It reminds me of

Also, obviously if they had to fix the game or make more maps I'd want them to fix the game.  But they never answered for why they're making so few maps.  The hardest part is making the game and making it balanced.  Why so much work to make a great game yet so little attention to the maps themselves??

I've never played Warcraft 3.  Do you guys honestly think if I opened up the map editor today for WC3 and made a map that it'd be any good?  No.  It'd be horrible b/c I've never played.  How the heck can we possibly get some "classicaly great Heroes 6 maps" made prior to the game coming out?  I get the impression that the developers are basically saying "we'll make the mechanics, you make the game."  


None of the maps made by game developers were ever really good. The best maps were always made by players.Because they focus on story, they have a lot of work with campaign maps already. I dont think they have to waste time on map making, just give us easy map making tools and our creativity will be put into work. If the game is popular, the fans will make dozens of maps within weeks. Trust me.

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Mike80D
Mike80D


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 09:24 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Armour of the Legendary Hero
Effect: +2 to all hero primary attributes

Who is the legendary hero?! I must know!


I don't think it refers to any particular hero. Maybe it comes from the same person that the Skull of Shadows comes from, Sar-Elam.


Its actually a weaker version of the Homm5 "Armor of the Forgotten Hero"

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/artifacts_toe.php

The Homm5 artifact also came with 20% magic resistance.  It wasn't part of a set, like the Dragon set, so for it to be a relic it had to be better.  I'll be curious to see if the Heroes 6 artifact is considered an artifact under the 'major' catagory.

With regards to player made maps, I wasn't impressed by a lot of them.  Even ones scored a 10 weren't always good.  I know people can come up with some quality maps, but you have to wade through 10 bad or subpar ones before finding a fun one.  Its not fun starting and playing a map for an hour only to find out its inadequate or poorly designed.  

And I think its rather ridiculous to say that the Developers shouldn't be "wasting their time" working on maps.  The maps are a MAJOR portion of the game.

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Mike80D
Mike80D


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 09:26 AM

btw, maybe I missed this, but what is "Prime Magic" ?  That artifact that gives resistance to it is interesting.

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 25, 2011 09:30 AM

Whilst I am rather excited by the map editor giving us a leg up, I do agree with Mike that it certainly is important to have more then 10 maps and I will be dissapointed if they don't put out a few extra maps themselves post release as patch content or free DLC.
(Paid DLC for maps beyond the first 10 would be robbery untill it was beyond the first 30, bearing in mind HoMMV/HoMMVI maps are harder to make then HoMMIII ones because of the levels of visual detail required to make the map look passable.)

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Wckey
Wckey


Famous Hero
posted May 25, 2011 09:30 AM
Edited by Wckey at 09:41, 25 May 2011.

So... we won't get anything else than artefacts this week?


Quote:
So ... will you post that every week ?  

Until the release of the game, yes, probably. Or at least till Ubihole udpate the website with neutral creatures and bosses...
____________
Come back soon, Elvin!

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted May 25, 2011 09:32 AM

A week moves fast.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 25, 2011 09:34 AM

Quote:
btw, maybe I missed this, but what is "Prime Magic" ?  That artifact that gives resistance to it is interesting.


It is the 7th school of magic and it stands for Primordial Magic, magic linked to Asha and Urgash directly...

Think it's primarily reserved for Necro and Inferno (excuse the pun!)

@ Avirob -> Hey maybe the legendary hero refers to King Brian Falcon the emperor, or Tuidhana, who hand a hand in the shaping of Ashans legends...

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 25, 2011 09:34 AM
Edited by Nelgirith at 10:08, 25 May 2011.

Quote:
So... we won't get anything else than artefacts this week?

So ... will you post that every week ?

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 25, 2011 09:49 AM

Whilst I am rather excited by the map editor giving us a leg up, I do agree with Mike that it certainly is important to have more then 10 maps and I will be dissapointed if they don't put out a few extra maps themselves post release as patch content or free DLC.
(Paid DLC for maps beyond the first 10 would be robbery untill it was beyond the first 30, bearing in mind HoMMV/HoMMVI maps are harder to make then HoMMIII ones because of the levels of visual detail required to make the map look passable.)

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Mike80D
Mike80D


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 10:01 AM

Thank you DoubleDeck!

With regards to the map editor, as much fun as I know I'll have with it, I personally don't want to open it up before playing the game.  For me it'd spoil the fun of exploring and finding the objects within the context of the game.  Instead of being an adventurous map it'd suddenly turn into a grid with custom objects.  But I can certainly understand the excitement surrounding it.  I can't wait to eventually craft a masterpiece of a multiplayer map

I like the focus on the artifacts this week.  Is the image for each artifact posted the same image that will appear on the hero when he's wearing it (in the character profile)?  

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Mike80D
Mike80D


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 10:05 AM

On second thought, given the timeframe of Heroes6 to Homm5, perhaps that armor does belong to a specific Legendary hero.  Except after 400 years, in the homm5 universe, that hero becomes Forgotten.. hence the new name of the artifact.  That would certainly be rather interesting.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 25, 2011 10:08 AM
Edited by Nelgirith at 10:09, 25 May 2011.

Quote:
Think it's primarily reserved for Necro and Inferno (excuse the pun!)


Kinda funny that you asked me for a link to Lepastur's article but haven't read it

Primordial school regroups "common" spells, like Slow, Haste and any spell affecting Mana, Magic Power and Magic Defense.

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