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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 350 ... 373 374 375 376 377 ... 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Warm and fuzzy
posted May 25, 2011 12:19 PM

The very fact that they developed the concept of tears and blood should speak volumes. H5 and its accompanying Ashan lore at the time tried to inject a good dose of grey in the factions and indeed other than a few gameplay indicators - such as the edge of balance - you could not clearly classify a faction. Of course to say that they could have done better in the way of immersion and moral ambiguity would be an understatement
____________
Good design isn't more expensive, bad design is.
-Vitirr

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted May 25, 2011 12:30 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 12:31, 25 May 2011.

The blood/tears concept is unlikely to change the overall orientation of the factions. Inferno can never be the good guys as long as Urgash wants to destroy Asha's creation and the Demons are his servants (or actually it's possible - if you make a plot hole with the size of the Death Star). Likewise Haven can never lose their image of some group of idiot zealots as long as they stick to their faiths, priests, angels, inquisitions and so on. Certain heroes could add some nuance but the general image is much more "crystallized". I see no reason why this can not be applied to every faction, including Sanctuary.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted May 25, 2011 12:49 PM

Quote:
Demons are probably on their own here though as they are perceived as "evil" by all other factions....but to have this good/evil split in the factions might not apply in H6, but we can't be sure.

All we can be sure about is that there are no longer "might" factions and "magic" factions, depending on class of hero you choose....but not sure about good or evil factions...

From the story of Ashan it is clear to see who are good and who are evil factions.....

Evil:
worshipping death
worshipping urgash
getting pumped up with demon blood
worshipping darkness

Good:
worshipping light
having pointy ears
hammering in the mines
worshipping air
worshipping water



If you really want to compare the story, you must look at the history and the protagonists.
I will for example start with the Necromancers.. A stereortipical Evil faction.

How were they created? There origin is a cast of wizards? Are wizards steretipicly Evil? Well can but mostly they are not.
How did they separate? Wizards were jealous and started a civil war. So the Wizards were the Aggressors.
Who do they worship? Order in the form of death. Death sounds Evil but if its one of the parts of Order, does that sound Evil to you?

And now let us look at the protagonist of some of the Games related to the undead.
Let us start with Markal. A evil ambitiose power loving Necromancer. Clearly a villain.
Giovany: Another such character. Thirsty for power and position.
But we have a second side of this coin.
Ornela: Fascinated by death and curios for knowledge, but still a positive character.
Raven: Has some morbid passions and fetishes, but still she was the one who was seeking a new home, and was attacked by the Wizards.
Arantir: A wise man whit a quest that must be fullfild. Chosen as an Avatar by his Goddess who created the whole world. A savior. Even thou he is willing to sacrifice thousand of lives for the greater good. He is still a character that works for the better of all. This is basic characteristic of "Good" characters.

I would like if someone could add Fiona to any of these groups.

To sum up, necromancers On Ashan not Evil from nature, but as everywhere there are good and evil individuals.

Same could be done for Orcs in this setting.
In my Eyes Wizards are a much more "EVIL" faction, judging by there actions, then Orcs or Necromancers.
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.

We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted May 25, 2011 01:02 PM
Edited by Avirosb at 13:20, 25 May 2011.

Sorry to bring up H4 but
Quote:
Arantir: A wise man whit a quest that must be fullfild. Chosen as an Avatar by his Goddess who created the whole world. A savior. Even thou he is willing to sacrifice thousand of lives for the greater good. He is still a character that works for the better of all. This is basic characteristic of "Good" characters.

Grand Vizier Gavin Magnus was also a well-intentioned extremist, yet he was labeled a villain. (Granted, he wanted to remove free will and was clearly off his rocker, but then again, he had witnessed, experienced the destruction of a world.)

EDIT:

Armour of the Legendary Hero
Effect: +2 to all hero primary attributes

Who is the legendary hero?! I must know!

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Warm and fuzzy
posted May 25, 2011 01:20 PM

That reminds me



@zenofex
That's kinda the point, puts the ball on the hero's court.
____________
Good design isn't more expensive, bad design is.
-Vitirr

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 25, 2011 01:40 PM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 13:45, 25 May 2011.

Quote:
What's frere?.


Means "brother" in french!

Quote:

worshipping air
So far, no in-game playable faction does this.


@Mr Dragon - nice pointers

Haven used to worship air, then moved to worshipping light and formed the Falcon Empire....those that didn't like this continued to worship air and moved to form the free cities....wizards.

The great dragon, Sylath/Ylath, is still worshipped by barbarians to the north, however, and by some inhabitants of the Free Cities to the east, even some wizards pay honor to the Dragon of Air, for he possesses arcane knowledge gleaned from his great skill at listening, but the great times of worship for him are over.

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 02:06 PM
Edited by mike80d at 14:07, 25 May 2011.

I definitely like the idea of tears/blood. It reminds me of

Also, obviously if they had to fix the game or make more maps I'd want them to fix the game.  But they never answered for why they're making so few maps.  The hardest part is making the game and making it balanced.  Why so much work to make a great game yet so little attention to the maps themselves??

I've never played Warcraft 3.  Do you guys honestly think if I opened up the map editor today for WC3 and made a map that it'd be any good?  No.  It'd be horrible b/c I've never played.  How the heck can we possibly get some "classicaly great Heroes 6 maps" made prior to the game coming out?  I get the impression that the developers are basically saying "we'll make the mechanics, you make the game."  

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 25, 2011 02:58 PM

Quote:
Armour of the Legendary Hero
Effect: +2 to all hero primary attributes

Who is the legendary hero?! I must know!


I don't think it refers to any particular hero. Maybe it comes from the same person that the Skull of Shadows comes from, Sar-Elam.

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MSG-1-1
MSG-1-1


Known Hero
posted May 25, 2011 02:58 PM

Quote:
I definitely like the idea of tears/blood. It reminds me of

Also, obviously if they had to fix the game or make more maps I'd want them to fix the game.  But they never answered for why they're making so few maps.  The hardest part is making the game and making it balanced.  Why so much work to make a great game yet so little attention to the maps themselves??

I've never played Warcraft 3.  Do you guys honestly think if I opened up the map editor today for WC3 and made a map that it'd be any good?  No.  It'd be horrible b/c I've never played.  How the heck can we possibly get some "classicaly great Heroes 6 maps" made prior to the game coming out?  I get the impression that the developers are basically saying "we'll make the mechanics, you make the game."  


None of the maps made by game developers were ever really good. The best maps were always made by players.Because they focus on story, they have a lot of work with campaign maps already. I dont think they have to waste time on map making, just give us easy map making tools and our creativity will be put into work. If the game is popular, the fans will make dozens of maps within weeks. Trust me.

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 03:24 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Armour of the Legendary Hero
Effect: +2 to all hero primary attributes

Who is the legendary hero?! I must know!


I don't think it refers to any particular hero. Maybe it comes from the same person that the Skull of Shadows comes from, Sar-Elam.


Its actually a weaker version of the Homm5 "Armor of the Forgotten Hero"

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/artifacts_toe.php

The Homm5 artifact also came with 20% magic resistance.  It wasn't part of a set, like the Dragon set, so for it to be a relic it had to be better.  I'll be curious to see if the Heroes 6 artifact is considered an artifact under the 'major' catagory.

With regards to player made maps, I wasn't impressed by a lot of them.  Even ones scored a 10 weren't always good.  I know people can come up with some quality maps, but you have to wade through 10 bad or subpar ones before finding a fun one.  Its not fun starting and playing a map for an hour only to find out its inadequate or poorly designed.  

And I think its rather ridiculous to say that the Developers shouldn't be "wasting their time" working on maps.  The maps are a MAJOR portion of the game.

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 03:26 PM

btw, maybe I missed this, but what is "Prime Magic" ?  That artifact that gives resistance to it is interesting.

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 25, 2011 03:30 PM

Whilst I am rather excited by the map editor giving us a leg up, I do agree with Mike that it certainly is important to have more then 10 maps and I will be dissapointed if they don't put out a few extra maps themselves post release as patch content or free DLC.
(Paid DLC for maps beyond the first 10 would be robbery untill it was beyond the first 30, bearing in mind HoMMV/HoMMVI maps are harder to make then HoMMIII ones because of the levels of visual detail required to make the map look passable.)

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Wckey
Wckey


Famous Hero
posted May 25, 2011 03:30 PM
Edited by Wckey at 15:41, 25 May 2011.

So... we won't get anything else than artefacts this week?


Quote:
So ... will you post that every week ?  

Until the release of the game, yes, probably. Or at least till Ubihole udpate the website with neutral creatures and bosses...
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Come back soon, Elvin!

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted May 25, 2011 03:32 PM

A week moves fast.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted May 25, 2011 03:34 PM

Quote:
btw, maybe I missed this, but what is "Prime Magic" ?  That artifact that gives resistance to it is interesting.


It is the 7th school of magic and it stands for Primordial Magic, magic linked to Asha and Urgash directly...

Think it's primarily reserved for Necro and Inferno (excuse the pun!)

@ Avirob -> Hey maybe the legendary hero refers to King Brian Falcon the emperor, or Tuidhana, who hand a hand in the shaping of Ashans legends...

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 25, 2011 03:34 PM
Edited by Nelgirith at 16:08, 25 May 2011.

Quote:
So... we won't get anything else than artefacts this week?

So ... will you post that every week ?

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MrDragon
MrDragon


Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
posted May 25, 2011 03:49 PM

Whilst I am rather excited by the map editor giving us a leg up, I do agree with Mike that it certainly is important to have more then 10 maps and I will be dissapointed if they don't put out a few extra maps themselves post release as patch content or free DLC.
(Paid DLC for maps beyond the first 10 would be robbery untill it was beyond the first 30, bearing in mind HoMMV/HoMMVI maps are harder to make then HoMMIII ones because of the levels of visual detail required to make the map look passable.)

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 04:01 PM

Thank you DoubleDeck!

With regards to the map editor, as much fun as I know I'll have with it, I personally don't want to open it up before playing the game.  For me it'd spoil the fun of exploring and finding the objects within the context of the game.  Instead of being an adventurous map it'd suddenly turn into a grid with custom objects.  But I can certainly understand the excitement surrounding it.  I can't wait to eventually craft a masterpiece of a multiplayer map

I like the focus on the artifacts this week.  Is the image for each artifact posted the same image that will appear on the hero when he's wearing it (in the character profile)?  

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mike80d
mike80d


Famous Hero
Map Maker
posted May 25, 2011 04:05 PM

On second thought, given the timeframe of Heroes6 to Homm5, perhaps that armor does belong to a specific Legendary hero.  Except after 400 years, in the homm5 universe, that hero becomes Forgotten.. hence the new name of the artifact.  That would certainly be rather interesting.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 25, 2011 04:08 PM
Edited by Nelgirith at 16:09, 25 May 2011.

Quote:
Think it's primarily reserved for Necro and Inferno (excuse the pun!)


Kinda funny that you asked me for a link to Lepastur's article but haven't read it

Primordial school regroups "common" spells, like Slow, Haste and any spell affecting Mana, Magic Power and Magic Defense.

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