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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 27, 2010 10:07 AM |
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I don't think the lack of armor is really the issue, Clerics, Zealots etc. from Heroes 3-5 didn't wear real armor either (except for the ill-fated bucket).
I think Priestesses look good as they are, and the color change between basic and upgrade is pretty significant. My major gripe is with the Radiant, which I think is out of place and, combined with the already present Priestess and Angel, seems superfluous.
If they wanted to emphasize some sort of light connection, they could have given the Angel a more serious overhaul, which frankly wouldn't have been a bad idea, given that I find the new Seraph somewhat underwhelming.
I must admit, however, that I'm hard pressed to come up with a really good alternative new unit for Haven. The only obvious choice is some sort of War Machine, whic his not ideal given the alternative mechanism already present in the game for War Machines. Valkyrie also would be out of place, these are inherent to Norse mythology and thus should be located in a Viking style town (cf. Heroes 5 Fortress (Dwarf) town).
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What will happen now?
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Naze
Known Hero
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posted November 27, 2010 11:01 AM |
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Quote:
I think Priestesses look good as they are, and the color change between basic and upgrade is pretty significant. My major gripe is with the Radiant, which I think is out of place and, combined with the already present Priestess and Angel, seems superfluous.
If they wanted to emphasize some sort of light connection, they could have given the Angel a more serious overhaul, which frankly wouldn't have been a bad idea, given that I find the new Seraph somewhat underwhelming.
I must admit, however, that I'm hard pressed to come up with a really good alternative new unit for Haven. The only obvious choice is some sort of War Machine, whic his not ideal given the alternative mechanism already present in the game for War Machines. Valkyrie also would be out of place, these are inherent to Norse mythology and thus should be located in a Viking style town (cf. Heroes 5 Fortress (Dwarf) town).
I must admit, you are right, especially with the "underwhelming" Seraphs. They seem to be on the same level as the Glories, and much lower than the awesome Fate Spinner/Weaver.
At first, I was really enthusiastic about the Glories, but then I realized, there are just too many females in Haven (do not blame me for sexism! How many women were there in the medieval armies?). I think, that the angels and Glories should be somehow combined (and RENAMED), so that the angels would get a more spiritual/divine/sacred appearance. And what about the empty elite place? Some anti-magic, or spell-stealing unit would be quite interesting (yes, I am thinking of the spellbreaker from Warcraft III  ). It would fit into the protection/support concept of Haven, and since it would be able to negate/steal enemy spells, it had to be quite strong.
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Aatos
Adventuring Hero
Heroic Adventurer
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posted November 27, 2010 11:04 AM |
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Edited by Aatos at 11:18, 27 Nov 2010.
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It's good to see my first posts being commented  . The reason I mentioned the battle equipment and battle readiness of units is because I would like the game to be as realistic as much a PC game can be without affecting the gameplay.
Imagine the Juggernauts or Pit Fiends attacking the Priestesses or Glories. It seems like they should kill them all in one hit. And if magic is what gives them power then it should be atleast seen in some animation in the game.
The realistic appearence goes for the wings aswell. Although I think that thay don't even have to use bird wings. It would be better looking to use something different like the Archangel Tyrael in Diablo.
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To fail to plan is to plan to
fail.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 27, 2010 11:09 AM |
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Wow that last pic looks pretty damn good 
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Naze
Known Hero
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posted November 27, 2010 11:12 AM |
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Quote:
Well, this is what I call a champion!
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Oz
Adventuring Hero
Preparing
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posted November 27, 2010 11:32 AM |
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Quote:
If they wanted to emphasize some sort of light connection, they could have given the Angel a more serious overhaul, which frankly wouldn't have been a bad idea, given that I find the new Seraph somewhat underwhelming.
Agreed.
As for the elite unit, I would suggest an overhaul of the swordsman, into a paladin with acces to offensive light spells, and -hates undead- ability.
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jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted November 27, 2010 12:17 PM |
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Quote:
Wow that last pic looks pretty damn good
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Well, this is what I call a champion!
Never seen Archangel Tyrael before? 
In my opinion it is only the seraph and the maybe the glory that need so work. The seraph looks kind of stupid, but then I'm no fan of either hoods nor double swords. I'm not going to comment to much about the glory since I haven't seen it ingame, but I really hope it looks better then its artwork and that the line between body and light becomes more "unclear". I don't want it to be just a girl with bright lights, but instead a true Light elemental with a diffuse shape of a lady.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Frederik360
Adventuring Hero
Looking to the sky
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posted November 27, 2010 06:01 PM |
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Well what I wanted to say with may timeline ravings is that in order to make the changes so radical both art and game mechanics was easier to go 400 years back in time, after all if they don’t work they can return with the story, art, game mechanics and overall concept in the H5 time line (present day in Ashan, just my thinking if I were the game Developer/publisher).
Your description for the unit concept is a lot better.
Ability to (thanks Aatos), create/summon from a killed stack a unit like Einherjar (or similar) that would fight until killed or end of battle.
Another option would be a ability similar to H5 ToE Divine Vengeance.
Now I get what your point was. And you are right regarding this, since they would be able to return to previous design should the new one not work out.
As for the valkyrie thanks, didn't really put a lot of work into the concept, but always nice to get some positive feedback on the initial reslts. Think there is room for expanding the concept/background story, but I think it would serve as a good baseline.
Regarding the ability I would go for the second option or some aura, that would grant any unit standing next to the valkyrie boost to attack/defence/morale. Still not quite sure about the summoning or resurrection, since this would contradict the lore of the valkyrie. Furthermore i don't think it is that good of an idea to completely copy Age of Mythology. But still think this is way better than the radiant glory.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted November 27, 2010 06:27 PM |
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I don't understand the relevance of that Starcraft II pic though.
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LordGodric
Known Hero
The Griffin Rider
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posted November 27, 2010 06:42 PM |
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Yes, already having the female seraph and the priestess i dont think heaven really needed glory.
But it would be ok to me it her upgrad dont only just chaged her color! man, that's ridiculous! they could give her a diferent hair style, put some armor, give her a lightsaber, but they just chage her color?! it's me, or someone also thinks she's H5's pixie without plants ans painted in gold/silver?
and the seraph looks a bit weird with those colorful enormious swords. the wole concept of the seraph is good, the only weakspot the the design of the swords. why the pommels and hilts cant be smaller and the colors not so different?
The priestess is ok to me - except the fact disciples 3 do have a priestes in the humam faction, and monk was one of my favorite creatures - i just think her clothes are a little too tight. if she was to be a image of purity, she failed.
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Agent_00_BLeRD
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 27, 2010 06:57 PM |
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@Adrius:
The starcraft picture shows Immortals who have "hardened shield" that limits the amount of damage done to them by powerful attacks. It's meant to emphasize the point that if priestesses are protected by magic instead of armor, there should be some visual indication for that.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted November 27, 2010 08:14 PM |
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Well that's all amazing artwork and some of the changes sound really really good (I'm all over the dynamic battle arenas and herobuilding that isn't based on chance). But one thing...ehm... is questionable for me. The Breeder?
Quote:
It was surprising to see an awful lot of controversy over the Breeder, though, a unit I actually love. I thought you guys were generally nostalgics like me
So this unit has made an apperance before is that right? I've tried to do some research but I haven't been to succesful finding it. And to be quite honest I'm not too enthusiastic about it. But that's only because I was such a fan of the Nightmares... Swift Charging fear action was the way to go. And now...it's just a blob. I'm sure the creature will have great tactical usses (hopefully it'll be a better caster than the Pit Lords were) but still... it's so un-infernoesque. Perhaps it resembles the whole Kreegan stuff but that's before my time and I like "traditional" Demons. Still some info on the Blob would be greatly appreciated.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted November 27, 2010 11:31 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 23:32, 27 Nov 2010.
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The function and overall concept of the Breeder is somewhat similar to the Kreegan Queen's, so conceptually it is not exactly a new creature, even though there is nothing like it in HoMM I-V. It slightly reminds me of the Venom Spawn too.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted November 28, 2010 12:20 AM |
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I would imagine that if the Priestesses do use magic for protection, it would show up in their "defend" animation; however, as mentioned, Haven/Castle caster units have almost never worn armor.
As far as the Seraph goes, I think it will look much better ingame; I feel like it seems not much more impressive than the Glory in the art, but ingame it will likely be far large and project an aura of power much better.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted November 28, 2010 12:35 AM |
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So this unit has made an apperance before is that right? .
Two words: Wasp Hive.
Here's the *official* description, fyi.
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The Breeder.
The Breeders were the result of Urgash crafting a material form that translated some of his own primordial drives. Specifically, the drive to consume mana and the drive to populate Ashan with hordes of creatures loyal to the dictates of Chaos. Bestowed upon Ur-Mespharoth, the Demon Overlord of Proliferation, the Breeder is an obese, pulsing mass of flesh that continually creates Imps. The Imps that she births are “spit” from the various orifices that randomly appear on her body.
Though this demon is almost incapable of movement, she constantly twitches and contracts with her insatiable need to procreate. This drive to reproduce eats her from the inside out, and much of her energy is consumed in efforts to control the mutations of her body. She will occasionally consume her own Imp offspring.
She uses the mana energy that she ingests to impregnate herself, as nourishment, and to help her control the gruesome deformities that are created by her ceaseless cycle of birthing.
This gives a lot of hints as to how The Breeder will work in the game.
1) It spawns Imps (which seem to be flying critters of sorts)
2) It consumes Mana (Some sort of Mana Leach? Theft? Syphoning?), which is used to create the imps
3) Almost entirely immobile.
4) It consumes their own Imps (Similar to the Cyclops eating Goblins to replenish health?)
5) Judging from the artwork, maybe its numerous tentacles will result in a Hydraesque Encircling attack?
How well the creature will work will mostly depend on how usefull the imps are. I mean, what other use will a spawner unit have if the spawn doesn't a) provide a penalty to magic or mana (theft, leech, etc) b) distract your creatures (blind, immobilize, slow, etc) c) or have any other annoying effect? I'm pretty certain it will be a tedious opponent to fight and a good creature to creep with.
I'm also expecting it to have a huge bulk of Defence and Hit Points.
I'm reserving my final thoughts after I've tested them in-game, but thus far, I'm looking forward to using them. They seem to be quite promising at this point.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted November 28, 2010 01:28 AM |
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Edited by jabanoss at 01:29, 28 Nov 2010.
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I think of the breeder as a heavy ranged unit there the projectiles are imps which are created at the target. Considering the lore it seems as if the breeder must consume mana/imps in order the create imps. So it is likely to have some kind of consume ability, but will it be able to consume imps anywhere on the battlefield or only those next to the breeder? Maybe a strange question, but I'm just wondering how it will work graphically, if it even has these abilities
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 28, 2010 01:43 AM |
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Dexter hinted that we might come up with some theory by comparing these two pictures: http://img704.imageshack.us/f/mmfactionhavenid6.png/ and http://medias.3dvf.com/publish/planktoon/might_and_magic/heroes-might-magic-knights.jpg (the one to the right).
It looks to me that in the second picture, the Knight is of the Griffin Duchy so I think that originally they had the H6 Haven faction remain with the Griffin Duchy and not the Falcon Duchy. Perhaps early on, H6 was even supposed to be a sequel and not a prequel.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Charrclaw
Known Hero
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posted November 28, 2010 01:47 AM |
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Both knights have some bird symbols on their armor, maybe just an early artwork, or maybe in game you could chose from what duchy your hero comes from, carrying its' symbols?
Btw, I wish there was a larger artwork of that pit lord/fiend
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Kenishi
Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
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posted November 28, 2010 08:36 AM |
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The bottom line is that with the whole Radiant Glory is that a change of colors is not enough, and even if they don`t modify the entire art work at list tweak it, and not be left as is now.
Also I have a question and this goes to the Insiders, has the issue with AI and game mechanics regarding Hot seat been discussed, and this I wanted to ask after doing the enquiry, after the question what will you play this weekend I had to say H3, because trying to play H5 on a Large or Extra Large map with maximum number of AI is borderline impossible, due to the wait time for your turn to come.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted November 28, 2010 07:10 PM |
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Quote:
It looks to me that in the second picture, the Knight is of the Griffin Duchy so I think that originally they had the H6 Haven faction remain with the Griffin Duchy and not the Falcon Duchy. Perhaps early on, H6 was even supposed to be a sequel and not a prequel.
Had it been a sequel it would have been called the Holy Unicorn Empire.
Besides, Griffin or Falcon, who cares? Griffins were ALWAYS going to be part of the line-up and Falcons remain birds, so the general idea behind Haven, as well as their "design theme" will not change.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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